What does this even mean?

[canalsiderenovation]

We've applied for full planning permission. As part of pre-planning advice we had to have a heritage statement and design statement submitted with planning permission even though we are not in a conservation area, but are adjacent to the canal because of the canal bridge. Despite the farm past us being accessed via the canal bridge they were concerned re weight (despite tankers, tractors and farm machinery using it daily) . . . And now, just logged on and along with the favourable comments from neighbours, there is this added under 'consultants' comments, now in preplanning they mentioned the flying vampire critters but we submitted pictures and our architects were confident that that would be it.

 

So what the hell does all this mean:

 

SC Ecologist

Comment Date: Wed 06 Mar 2019

Ecological Impact Assessment (EcIA)<br/><br/>A planning application on this site must be accompanied by an Ecological Impact Assessment of the land in and surrounding the proposed development and a discussion of any potential impacts resulting from the development. <br/><br/>An Ecological Impact Assessment should consist of:<br/>' Extended Phase 1 habitat survey, habitat map and target notes on any significant biodiversity or geological features including species, habitats, designated wildlife or geological sites and the Shropshire Environmental Network.<br/>' A desk study of historical species records and local, regional or national wildlife designated sites.<br/>' Supplementary detailed surveys (phase 2 habitat surveys, protected or priority species or geological features as appropriate to the site).<br/>' Evaluation of the importance of biodiversity or geological features present at a local, regional, national, international level.<br/>' Analysis of the direct and indirect impacts of the development (during construction, working area, additional infrastructure and post construction).<br/>' Any losses or gains to priority habitats or the Environmental Network should be stated (hectares).<br/>' Proposed avoidance, mitigation or compensation measures, including method statements where appropriate.<br/>' Legal implications such as the need for European Protected Species Mitigation Licences or other licences (e.g. badgers) and details on how the favourable conservation status of populations of protected species will be maintained.<br/>' Proposed biodiversity or geodiversity enhancement measures.<br/><br/>The Ecological Impact Assessment should be carried out by a suitably qualified and experienced ecologist with the relevant protected species licenses. The Ecological Impact Assessment should be submitted to the Local Planning Authority prior to a planning decision being made.<br/><br/>Finding an ecological consultant<br/><br/>A list of ecological consultants who work in Shropshire is available on request. This list is by no means exhaustive and contains information on other ways of finding a consultant. Shropshire Council cannot recommend any consultant or guarantee their work. <br/><br/>You should always check that the ecologist you select has the relevant protected species survey licences issued by Natural England. Without a valid survey licence, the report provided by an ecologist may not be considered adequate by the Local Planning Authority.<br/><br/>It is always wise to seek several quotes since prices can vary.<br/><br/>I am happy to be contacted by the appointed ecologist to discuss the application prior to survey work being carried out if that is helpful.<br/><br/><br/>Please contact me, or one of the other Ecology team members, if you have any queries on the above.

[pudding]

You need to choose an Ecologist to carry out an Ecological Impact Assessment, that covers the points they mention and request?

[Russell griffiths]

Yep as above

thats another grand you will wonder why you had to spend 

[Moonshine]

  On 06/03/2019 at 17:35, Russell griffiths said:

Yep as above

thats another grand you will wonder why you had to spend 

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Reminded me of this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5gxnF-2jB8

 

 

I am sure that your journey is going to be paved with many additional grands here and there, got any big trees nearby? :)

[ProDave]

It just shows how some councils like to waste YOUR money on "ologists"

 

We had none of that up here, in spite of the fact I know bats are around, it is common to see them at dusk.  I guess some councils would want all sorts of impact studies and schemes because we are a riparian site.

[AliG]

Yes, council wasting your time and money.

 

Make sure that the ecologist doesn't write a report which requires them doing even more work and getting paid more. What a great job where you get to generate your own extra business.

[canalsiderenovation]

FFS, not what we wanted to hear. No idea how much that is all going to cost. I guess we need to start researching and getting prices. No doubt our architects will know someone but I'll also contact the council and find out more details. I don't know if they are saying we will need all those phases or if they just want the initial ones ....

 

Thank god we went a bit gung-ho with the chainsaw recently and cut down lots of trees that has the potential to be problematic. 

[Moonshine]

  On 06/03/2019 at 19:33, canalsiderenovation said:

FFS, not what we wanted to hear. No idea how much that is all going to cost. I guess we need to start researching and getting prices.

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Ha, I had the same reaction when the local environment health asked for air quality monitoring.

 

It was completely off my radar, where as other assessments (noise and trees) I was prepared for.

 

Having said that environmental health have been very helpful with it and I have been able to source a cost effective solution. 

[canalsiderenovation]

  On 06/03/2019 at 20:00, Moonshine said:

 

Ha, I had the same reaction when the local environment health asked for air quality monitoring.

 

It was completely off my radar, where as other assessments (noise and trees) I was prepared for.

 

Having said that environmental health have been very helpful with it and I have been able to source a cost effective solution. 

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Its so annoying. So far we have had to have a Heritage Assessment, 33 pages of rubbish, luckily one of our two architectural designers is qualified in conservation and was able to put something together quite quickly based on local historical knowledge of the area. 

 

As yet the Canal and River Trust are yet to comment as part of the 'consultation' and they are another one who we are expecting issues off.

 

Its a good job mentally we had resided ourselves to the fact we would be unlikely to start the build this year (mainly due to any good local builders being booked up already for summer).

 

At this rate I'll be pleased if we start next Spring.

 

 

[Russell griffiths]

When I had my topography survey done, the surveyor said it will take you a year to get planning,

i replied, watch this space mate I will have it all sorted in 6 months

16 months and £14600 later I started the foundations.??

 

 

[Russell griffiths]

We have had 3 different ecology type things that needed doing, all by different companies as I didn’t like the first  2, 

you need to find a very tame one who won’t find a thing, you then need to prep your site so that there is nothing to find. 

[Andrew]

  On 06/03/2019 at 19:33, canalsiderenovation said:

No doubt our architects will know someone but I'll also contact the council and find out more details.

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I’ve found that the consultants our architect ‘knows’ tend to be on the expensive side. Always worth getting an independent quote for this sort of thing. 

[Sjk]

I feel for you, I lot of us have been there, it doesn’t make it any less painful though :(

[Moonshine]

  On 06/03/2019 at 22:11, Russell griffiths said:

16 months and £14600 later I started the foundations.

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Out of interest what was the break down of the 14.5k?

[pudding]

If bats have already been mentioned and you're rural with a farm nearby with likely decent roosting places, get cracking finding an ecologist and get the initial survey done asap, as it sounds pretty likely they'll recommend a bat survey.  If that doesn't get done this year, before the autumn when it becomes too late in the year to do the bat surveys, it'll be unlikely to begin building next spring unfortunately.

[Ferdinand]

  On 06/03/2019 at 19:33, canalsiderenovation said:

FFS, not what we wanted to hear. No idea how much that is all going to cost. I guess we need to start researching and getting prices. No doubt our architects will know someone but I'll also contact the council and find out more details. I don't know if they are saying we will need all those phases or if they just want the initial ones ....

 

Thank god we went a bit gung-ho with the chainsaw recently and cut down lots of trees that has the potential to be problematic. 

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I wonder if it is possible to negotiate any of that away by arguing (or stating in the report, agreed with your ologists in advance) NO CHANGE.

 

One hint ... be aware of all the reports you need, and that it may be possibly for your ecologist to do a bat evaluation at the same time, and perhaps a Tree Evaluation.

 

You could try a very brief report, written personally:

 

”No life was detected except an alligator in the canal, which unfortunately ate the Ecologist”.

 

F

Edited March 6, 2019 by Ferdinand

[Pav]

Owning to our site characteristics (lots of large oaks, proximity to green areas, farms nearby) we had to do ecology Stage 1 survey. This identified medium risk of bats, which in turn necessitated having a Stage 2 done. The latter essentially involved "bat experts" sitting outside the house at dusk trying to spot bats in the vicinity of the house. The entire pleasure shaved nearly 2 grand off our budget. No bats were found which is fortunate since these critters are protected and displacing them can only be done in a very controlled and supervised way and you also need to provide alternative "accommodation" which meets certain criteria - think "building regulations for bats" (crazy, eh?)...  
The problem with Stage 2 is that it can only be done between May-June and September (so we were told). If you miss this window, the entire planning process becomes significantly delayed. 

 

Good luck. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Pav

[Thedreamer]

  On 06/03/2019 at 17:42, ProDave said:

It just shows how some councils like to waste YOUR money on "ologists"

 

We had none of that up here, in spite of the fact I know bats are around, it is common to see them at dusk.  I guess some councils would want all sorts of impact studies and schemes because we are a riparian site.

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I agree with this.

 

When you consider we also have bats flying around, the ruins of an iron age fort, building in a national scenic area, cut down 100 trees and building near a loch (maybe some newts/otters here) not a single "ologists" report required.

 

If we were building down south probably would have had to spent £1000s for nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

[Triassic]

Has the Planning Officer actually asked you to do this, or is it one of the consultees making a comment? Do nothing until your clear if this is a planning requirement. Maybe start by doing some further checking.

 

There is guidance on what the report should contain.

 

https://cieem.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Ecological-Report-Writing-Dec2017.pdf

Edited March 7, 2019 by Triassic

[Gone West]

We weren't asked for any type of ecology report by the planners despite living next to two farms and being surrounded by orchards and open fields. Mind you with the way they farm around here there isn't much wildlife to report on .

[canalsiderenovation]

  On 07/03/2019 at 04:30, Triassic said:

Has the Planning Officer actually asked you to do this, or is it one of the consultees making a comment? Do nothing until your clear if this is a planning requirement. Maybe start by doing some further checking.

 

There is guidance on what the report should contain.

 

https://cieem.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Ecological-Report-Writing-Dec2017.pdf

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Its one of the consultees making a comment, not that we have been asked by the planning officer ..... Interesting. I'll chase this up.

[Triassic]

  On 07/03/2019 at 08:36, canalsiderenovation said:

 

Its one of the consultees making a comment, not that we have been asked by the planning officer ..... Interesting. I'll chase this up.

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Make sure you’ve got a valid argument to make to the panning officer as to why its not being required

[pudding]

  On 07/03/2019 at 09:05, Triassic said:

Make sure you’ve got a valid argument to make to the panning officer as to why its not being required

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Indeed, at the moment it's a recommendation from the Council's Ecologist. It will be included as a condition of planning when you get the final decision notice. The council planning officer would need a very good reason to ignore their own ecologist and not require you to get an initial survey done, and tbh I dont think they're going to ignore their own in house ecologist based on anything you can say unfortnately. So, get prepared and contact a few ecologists to get some quotes for initial habitat surveys and be prepared i reckon.,

[Triassic]

  On 07/03/2019 at 09:27, pudding said:

Indeed, at the moment it's a recommendation from the Council's Ecologist. It will be included as a condition of planning when you get the final decision notice. The council planning officer would need a very good reason to ignore their own ecologist and not require you to get an initial survey done, and tbh I dont think they're going to ignore their own in house ecologist based on anything you can say unfortnately. So, get prepared and contact a few ecologists to get some quotes for initial habitat surveys and be prepared i reckon.,

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Look at other similar planning application that required an ecological assessment, see what others provided.

[Ferdinand]

I think it may be beneficial to go through that list ... which looks like a boilerplate list,, and see if you can pre-emptively demonstrate why certain aspects do not require to be done, or have been already addressed.

 

That may reduce the work for your ecologist, and may save money or queries.

 

eg It may be a good thing to have identified how your site will work, so as not to threaten the canal. Once thIngs get into the planning database, they will raise to the surface again. So take care what you tell people or planners.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Ferdinand