Financing Self Build In Parents Garden

[Tennentslager]

@epsilonGreedy I'm usually the last to comment on these posts but you should reflect before you press the submit button.

Yellow card time is looming I'd guess...

 

[epsilonGreedy]

9 hours ago, PeterW said:

Its not that popular - the 12th edition is due to Mark keeping it in line with regs and wanting to ensure that the pricing and building regs compliance was as accurate as possible. From memory, he used to self publish and up to about the 9th edition it was plagued with issues around the index amongst other things not being accurate. 

 

 

Is there a more popular book on self building in the UK?

 

I have seen other positive posts about the book on this forum, it is not designed to impress experts like you.

Edited October 1, 2018 by epsilonGreedy

[epsilonGreedy]

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

I can't really understand why anyone wouldn't want to self-build to a better thermal and airtightness standard than building regs.  The cost differential of doing so is down in the noise compared with the other costs involved; a different type of worktop in our kitchen would have covered the cost difference between a passive standard build and a just-meets-crappy-building-regs standard build.around 1/3rd to 1/2 the cost had we opted for a lower, but perfectly serviceable, specification.

 

 

The SBB does not advocate against these objectives, instead the author knows how easy it is for self builders to go way over budget hence he feels it is important to offer an unexciting formula for creating a home on budget. The author also illustrates in the book how a home built down to minimum thermal regs of 2015 still performs far better than the vast majority of British houses, a fact that could be mentioned a bit more often on this forum.

[ProDave]

@Carrerahill @epsilonGreedy

 

Please refrain from having a slanging match. This is a friendly and helpful forum. This behaviour is not what we want.

[epsilonGreedy]

7 hours ago, Dreadnaught said:

I have visited the author in his recently finished new house in Cambridge. The house is designed by a top (and very expensive) architect, has a fabric-first approach, and looks splendid. A frivolity he was keen to show off was a 3-metre powered opening glass roof panel.

 

 

A just reward for authoring a long running popular book.

 

Tis all a bit silly trying to formulate an opinion about a self build book based on how it promotes Passive thinking. The incremental savings achieved as a self build is enhanced from basic thermal regs to degrees of passiv conformance are small compared to the £50k or £100k cost over runs that might be experienced when venturing into self build without the elementary knowledge provided in the SBB.

[Mr Punter]

5 minutes ago, ProDave said:

@Carrerahill @epsilonGreedy

 

Please refrain from having a slanging match. This is a friendly and helpful forum. This behaviour is not what we want.

Hear, hear.

[daiking]

27 minutes ago, ProDave said:

@Carrerahill @epsilonGreedy

 

Please refrain from having a slanging match. This is a friendly and helpful forum. This behaviour is not what we want.

 

I disagree, they're enjoyable for both spectators and participants. However they should be in a more general forum area, not derailing a specific query by another member.

 

It does highlight how different generational outlooks will lead to different advice over this question. I can only proffer that it is less than advisable to live in your renovation/extension and expect a normal family life

 

Surprised no has mentioned to sell the flat and live in a caravan on site.

[ProDave]

3 minutes ago, daiking said:

..... I can only proffer that it is less than advisable to live in your renovation/extension and expect a normal family life

 

Surprised no has mentioned to sell the flat and live in a caravan on site.

We have been living on site in the static caravan for 18 months and now in the unfinshed house.  Family life adapts to the circumstances.

 

I would be surprised if there was room on a garden plot for a static 'van, but perhaps it was some sized garden?

[Jeremy Harris]

45 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

A just reward for authoring a long running popular book.

 

Tis all a bit silly trying to formulate an opinion about a self build book based on how it promotes Passive thinking. The incremental savings achieved as a self build is enhanced from basic thermal regs to degrees of passiv conformance are small compared to the £50k or £100k cost over runs that might be experienced when venturing into self build without the elementary knowledge provided in the SBB.

 

It's an OK book, but just reflects the views and experience of one person, albeit a person who has done a pretty good job of trying to disseminate what he's learned by various means, including that book.  I doubt he's made much, if any, money from it, TBH, as it's not a big seller.  There are lots of sources of information, some more reliable and accurate than others.

 

Not sure where you've got the idea that one book could, on its own, prevent a cost over-run on a self-build.  I'd advise anyone contemplating self-build to do as much research from as many different sources as possible, and carefully weigh up how applicable each source of information is to the self-builder's personal needs.  One big advantage of this forum is that there is a massive variety of builds and experience, which means any self-builder here has the benefit of a great deal of varied practical experience, from people that have, in some cases, built several self-builds over the years.

 

With regard to cost over-runs, I think there are few self-builders that haven't experienced some higher than expected costs.  We had a cost over-run of around £50k, and I can assure you that I'd read everything I could on self-build (including Mark's book and blog), joined this forum's predecessor, Ebuild, in 2008, 5 years before we started our build, I spent a year (full time, not working) planning the detail of every aspect of the build that I could, analysed the costs, spent a lot of time hunting for bargains (I consider my time to be free) yet we still had unexpected costs.  Could I have foreseen those unexpected costs?  No, even with the benefit of hindsight I know I couldn't.  They were things outwith my control or ability to forecast, in the main.  The only thing I would do differently if doing it again would be to increase the contingency in the budget.  I'd allowed 10%, and it just wasn't enough.

[epsilonGreedy]

3 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I would be surprised if there was room on a garden plot for a static 'van, but perhaps it was some sized garden?

 

 

I am surprised how quickly I have run out of space on my 0.2 acre plot.

1. House and garage footing = 120m2
2. Static caravan plus 1.5m buffer to neighbours hedge about 65m2
3. Cement mixing station.
4. 2m boundary around footings for future scaffolding.
5. 3m wide path between static and house for a telehandler.
6. Multiple stacks of blocks.
7. And now a maxibag of drainage 10mm gravel.

[epsilonGreedy]

15 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

Not sure where you've got the idea that one book could, on its own, prevent a cost over-run on a self-build.

 

 

Not what I claimed.

 

We see examples here on the forum where people wander into project trouble with less knowledge of the spending schedule than would be obtained from a single read through the SBB. I am thinking of such people and other early stage entrants to self build when I say if you are only going to read one book before starting it should be the SBB.

 

Your multi year preparatory phase is pretty exceptional and not exactly a project method that can be adopted en-mass.

[jack]

14 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

Not what I claimed.

 

We see examples here on the forum where people wander into project trouble with less knowledge of the spending schedule than would be obtained from a single read through the SBB. I am thinking of such people and other early stage entrants to self build when I say if you are only going to read one book before starting it should be the SBB.

 

Your multi year preparatory phase is pretty exceptional and not exactly a project method that can be adopted en-mass.

 

I read The Housebuilders' Bible twice, cover to cover, pretty early on in the process. I found it a great general introduction, and I learned a lot about sequencing and timescales, in particular. 

 

That said, I found it light on actual detail, so ended up using it as a high level guide and filled in the detail from other sources.

 

Edited to add: I did find some of the pricing optimistic for my area. There was (and still is) a shortage of trades and builders, so all the good ones are expensive and/or unavailable for months.

[Johnny Jekyll]

11 hours ago, newhome said:

 

I can’t see this being an issue TBH. You can’t own 2 houses without there being an implication for CGT but land is not a house, and a house isn’t really a house until you’ve built it. Even then there is a grace period where you can own 2 properties without having sold one. It’s 18 months I believe but do check. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Regarding this point from newhome, are you saying that if we transfer the land now, it still won't actually be classed as owning 2 houses until the build reaches a certain stage? If so, do you know what stage that would be? Habitable? Utilities connection? The point council tax is due (I don't yet know when that would be due either).

 

Please all feel free to give opinions on this thanks. Should I speak with a conveyancing solicitor to confirm? Or am I worrying about something quite trivial?

 

Also, today the Self Builders Bible 12th edition arrived so I'm going to smash through that over the next week to get a better understanding of everything. I am officially a novice at the moment but a pretty quick learner.

[ToughButterCup]

2 hours ago, Johnny Jekyll said:

[...]

I am officially a novice at the moment but a pretty quick learner.

 

You / we have no option. 

That skill maintains sanity. Protects bank balances. Encourages modesty.

Me, I'm a bit of an eejit, nearly broke  and scorched by the heat  of my own worthiness.

[Ferdinand]

43 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

 

You / we have no option. 

That skill maintains sanity. Protects bank balances. Encourages modesty.

Me, I'm a bit of an eejit, nearly broke  and scorched by the heat  of my own worthiness.

 

Early to bed,

Early to rise,

Makes a man .... oops.

 

(Did not work for me, either)

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Ferdinand

[PeterW]

7 hours ago, Johnny Jekyll said:

Regarding this point from newhome, are you saying that if we transfer the land now, it still won't actually be classed as owning 2 houses until the build reaches a certain stage? If so, do you know what stage that would be? Habitable? Utilities connection? The point council tax is due (I don't yet know when that would be due either).

 

Council tax varies - some try it on and it’s from “Substantially Complete” and basically say it’s going to be done in 3 months so you need to pay up. Others don’t charge until it’s done - the key utility is a water connection so do that last !!! CGT isn’t an issue if you sell within 18 months of completion - transferring land, even with planning permission doesn’t count as a dwelling. 

 

[newhome]

I would say that the completion certificate from building control generally counts as the most usual document to determine that a house is complete. That said many people move into their house before this stage so if you officially move in, claim the new property as your address etc then potentially the clock ticks from then as it thus becomes your primary residence. As @PeterW says when you have to pay council tax varies by council but it’s often before the completion certificate is issued. You still have 18 months to sell your old property however before CGT liability kicks in so really it’s a non issue unless you struggle hugely to sell. 

 

Even HMRC is inconsistent in determining whether a property is complete in some cases. This is based on information received on VAT reclaims. But it matters not because what’s important is whether it’s your primary residence or not. 

 

If you read this link it mentions that a property counts as a dwelling during construction. It still shouldn’t matter as your old property continues to be your primary residence until you move into the new one. The new one however would appear to be liable for CGT from the minute you start construction. But since you are not considering selling the new house that becomes a non issue as once it is complete you move into it and it becomes your primary residence. And you then have 18 months to dispose of the old one before liability kicks in. 

 

https://www.taxation.co.uk/Articles/2017/05/02/336351/cgt-property-disposals

 

If you are really concerned I would consult a tax expert (as opposed to a solicitor). 

 

 

[nod]

15 hours ago, JSHarris said:

I can't really understand why anyone wouldn't want to self-build to a better thermal and airtightness standard than building regs.  The cost differential of doing so is down in the noise compared with the other costs involved; a different type of worktop in our kitchen would have covered the cost difference between a passive standard build and a just-meets-crappy-building-regs standard build.

 

Our build ended up exceeding the PHI requirements by a fair bit, but as you say, didn't attract a premium on the price of the structure.  We did go for a reasonably good standard of internal fit out, with oiled solid oak stairs, skirting, architraves etc, oiled oak veneered doors, around £7k on stone worktops in the kitchen (which also has solid oak doors and drawer fronts, as does the fitted furniture in the utility room, WC and both bathrooms).  We also opted for a lot of travertine stone flooring, plus an MVHR that has an integral air-to-air heat pump, so we have comfort air cooling in summer.

 

The details are all in our blog, but the build cost came to around £1,380/m².  The passive slab foundations and insulated and airtight house frame came to around £56k, IIRC, for 130m² of internal floor area.  The triple glazed aluclad timber windows and doors (Average Uw of 0.7 W/m².K) were around £8.5k. 

 

I did a fair bit of work myself, like fitting the ventilation system, doing the plumbing, helping with the electrical installation, installing the heating/cooling and DHW systems, plus fitting the kitchen, bathrooms, WC, and utility rooms and doing all the internal joinery, so saved a fair bit on labour cost.  What we saved from my labour allowed us to have a higher standard of internal fit out, though.  We could have fitted out the interior for around 1/3rd to 1/2 the cost had we opted for a lower, but perfectly serviceable, specification.

 

I agree totally, get as much insulation and airtightness into your build as you can

Domestic standards are shocking

Today's job is to pitch a scaffold on yesterday’s freshly laid tile and fasten 100 x 300 mtrs of recticel to the underside of the floor prior to us putting the ceilings in

This is a commercial work area with offices above 

The client was worried that the offices would be cold for her staff and also heating bills would go through the roof Literally 

What a boss 

Quite a large expense to add 300 mtrs of insulation at this stage 

and will put us a week behind with the floor tiling 

 

The mainstream builders couldn’t care less 

[Johnny Jekyll]

8 hours ago, newhome said:

I would say that the completion certificate from building control generally counts as the most usual document to determine that a house is complete. That said many people move into their house before this stage so if you officially move in, claim the new property as your address etc then potentially the clock ticks from then as it thus becomes your primary residence. As @PeterW says when you have to pay council tax varies by council but it’s often before the completion certificate is issued. You still have 18 months to sell your old property however before CGT liability kicks in so really it’s a non issue unless you struggle hugely to sell. 

 

Even HMRC is inconsistent in determining whether a property is complete in some cases. This is based on information received on VAT reclaims. But it matters not because what’s important is whether it’s your primary residence or not. 

 

If you read this link it mentions that a property counts as a dwelling during construction. It still shouldn’t matter as your old property continues to be your primary residence until you move into the new one. The new one however would appear to be liable for CGT from the minute you start construction. But since you are not considering selling the new house that becomes a non issue as once it is complete you move into it and it becomes your primary residence. And you then have 18 months to dispose of the old one before liability kicks in. 

 

https://www.taxation.co.uk/Articles/2017/05/02/336351/cgt-property-disposals

 

If you are really concerned I would consult a tax expert (as opposed to a solicitor). 

 

 

 

Thanks very much newhome and PeterW. That's all very helpful.

 

One last question, is there a reason the forum only seems to show more recent posts rather than all post added over time? Am I missing something? For example this Self Build Mortgages section lists 507 posts but I can only see maybe 50 posts over two pages?

[newhome]

I can only see 2 pages too. The post count includes the replies too I think. This is a relatively young forum (started in 2016) so there won’t be any posts older than that. 

 

[Johnny Jekyll]

4 hours ago, newhome said:

I can only see 2 pages too. The post count includes the replies too I think. This is a relatively young forum (started in 2016) so there won’t be any posts older than that. 

 

 

I see, I'll have a good look around, thanks.

[Ferdinand]

15 hours ago, Johnny Jekyll said:

One last question, is there a reason the forum only seems to show more recent posts rather than all post added over time? Am I missing something? For example this Self Build Mortgages section lists 507 posts but I can only see maybe 50 posts over two pages?

 

I think you are confusing "threads" (or conversations) with "posts" (contributions to the conversation).

 

507 is the number of posts across the threads, for which the titles are listed in 2 pages.

 

If you go down and add up the posts in each thread, it will compute.

 

Ferdinand

 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Ferdinand