I demolished your house, but I'm not moving the debris!

[laurenco]

Week one of this build, and the demolition guys are already driving me insane! ? The brick-debate ensues... and now broken slabs of concrete are in the mix (quite literally).

 

Whilst they removed the metal (to weigh in), the windows and most of the timber of our former bungalow, we're left with landfill sized mounds of a broken up concrete slab (which we've lifted in order to lay another concrete slab ?) and the demo guys have said they never priced to remove this from site. They priced to demolish, level and site scrape. But not to remove the mountain of bricks and concrete which may or may not have all sorts of old brass chandeliers glinting in the sunlight.

 

What is typical lovely self-builders? Should the demo price include removing the building rubble from site?

[Cpd]

If they had the cheek to take away all the stuff worth something and leave the shite I would be pretty pissed. Without a written contract of what was agreed  you don’t have a leg to stand on. Sounds like “poor planning” = “poor results”  no disrespect intended. If you read the blogs and threads it’s one of the BIG issues. Everything needs to be agreed, priced and written down before works are undertaken.  

[PeterW]

Not unusual as it is normally listed in the quote. 

 

You may be facing a very big bill as that will possibly be classed as mixed waste not inert. Inert can go to quarry reclaim and similar for about £150/20t load, mixed either has to be yard separated or goes to land fill and is about £650/20t load around here. 

 

Three questions : 

- can you get the bricks from it reasonably clean ..? They have a value. 

- when do you need the site clear..?

- do you need a hard standing or driveway..?

 

If you have time and need the stuff onsite for under drives etc, you can hire in a crusher and basically crush the lot. It will crush down quite small but could take a couple of days and is noisy and dusty - best done on a rainy day ..!

[Onoff]

If it ends up you having to shift it then maybe hire a crusher and reuse as Type 1 or whatever you choose to grade it at under the drive etc.

[Mr Punter]

There is no general rule for demo contracts and it depends what was agreed.  I would normally expect the structure to be demolished and removed from site.  Slab and foundations would be an extra.

 

If the concrete is in a pile it may be fairly inexpensive to dispose of.  Is the machine still on site?  Have you got quotes to complete the work?

[Mr Punter]

Don't think about crushing on site as the dust and noise will be unacceptable.

[laurenco]

@Mr Punter was just googling crusher hire prices (!)

[Onoff]

8 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

Don't think about crushing on site as the dust and noise will be unacceptable.

 

Not where I live.....well at least my neighbour didn't give a f**k when he got an industrial sized one off his mate and did it. 

[MarkA]

We paid £500 for a man, mini digger, mini crusher (and big sledge hammer to break up bigger bits) for 1 days work.  We are near the Essex/Suffolk border.  He worked solidly all day and created about 30 tonnes of hardcore (which is actually a fairly small pile really).  Bit dusty but we are on the edge of a small village so not too problematic.  Nowhere near as noisy as I expected, even the neighbours who don't like noise were not bothered (but we are on a main road so people are used to a reasonable amount of traffic noise).

[MarkA]

Should have also said the slab was already broken up and he used the mini digger to load the crusher.  It was a small barn that we demolished so probably smaller than your bungalow.

[newhome]

And therein lies the phrase "Assumption is the mother of all F ups" 

 

There are a multitude of threads on BH where people have laid bare their experiences.

 

So;

• Write down what you expect to happen
• Go over it again and write down anything you have assumed
• Validate all assumptions with your supplier and be very clear about what is in and out of scope

I wish we had done a lot more of that TBH. So many times assumptions have turned out to be false and led to the classic phrase 'not included guv'. 

 

[daiking]

There’s a lot of victim shaming on BH.

 

These c**ks are supposed to know what they’re doing. Self builders, householders and laymen clearly don’t so the onus should be on the c**ks being paid to clearly communicate what is and isn’t covered. 

 

JMTPW.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Nickfromwales

[Onoff]

14 hours ago, daiking said:

There’s a lot of victim shaming on BH.

 

These c**ks are supposed to know what they’re doing. Self builders, householders and laymen clearly don’t so the onus should be on the c**ks being paid to clearly communicate what is and isn’t covered. 

 

JMTPW.

 

That came across as having more expletives in for some reason!

[newhome]

1 hour ago, daiking said:

 

There’s a lot of victim shaming on BH.

 

 

No one’s being shamed. We just learn lessons, all of us, not just in building but through life in general. I imagine that builders have a few tales to tell too. Like how they weren’t paid for the job they did, how some clients were a complete PITA picking at everything they did, or told them how to do their job despite knowing jack. If we decide to self manage, this type of issue goes with the territory really. I doubt anyone’s build is free of oh sh1t moments. 

[jack]

I'd have assumed at least the above ground stuff would be taken away, although it's always better when these things are specified up-front. Do you have anything at all in writing - even an email is good enough. It seems very unusual that they'd demolish, then go away while you clear, then come back and scrape/level.

 

On the other hand, if they're saying you're responsible for getting rid of the spoil, then they've just officially stolen from you by taking the metals, windows, and wood etc that by their own argument was your responsibility.

 

Up to you whether you want to push back. Our demo guys were nice enough but there's no way I'd have stood toe to toe with them in an argument.

[Hecateh]

19 hours ago, daiking said:

There’s a lot of victim shaming on BH.

 

These c**ks are supposed to know what they’re doing. Self builders, householders and laymen clearly don’t so the onus should be on the c**ks being paid to clearly communicate what is and isn’t covered. 

 

JMTPW.

Maybe they should - but they don't and if it is not written down it ain't happening.  

 

I have been a recipient of this and have never felt 'shamed' by the people on here.  (IN fact I blame myself FAR more than I have been blamed or shamed by anyone on here.)  Fact remains I didn't get in writing everything I expected.  Ergo I didn't get everything I expected.  

 

The builder should have made me aware of it but the twat was no more aware than I was until the money started running out.  He not only shafted me' he then wanted to exhort more money as he said he had already done work that wasn't quoted for.  (He didn't get it)

 

Buyer beware.  AND unlike the banks etc, there is no way anyone is ever going to make any money out of 'miss selling'  with sole traders or small limited companies

[daiking]

14 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

That came across as having more expletives in for some reason!

 

Just one, c**ks.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Nickfromwales
Toned down a bit ;).

[Triassic]

Unfortunately we’ve all made this type of mistake, me included, the important thing is to learn the lessons. Not everyone out there is an angel, some are cowboys! 

 

Probably the one thing I’ve kearnt over the years is to ask questions of everyone and if you require validation of the answers, come here and ask.

[daiking]

10 hours ago, newhome said:

 

No one’s being shamed. We just learn lessons, all of us, not just in building but through life in general. I imagine that builders have a few tales to tell too. Like how they weren’t paid for the job they did, how some clients were a complete PITA picking at everything they did, or told them how to do their job despite knowing jack. If we decide to self manage, this type of issue goes with the territory really. I doubt anyone’s build is free of oh sh1t moments. 

 

Posters are constantly shamed with you should have done this, you should have done that. 

 

If I have 40 tons of broken house to get rid of, who do you think would be more likely to know how to dispose of it cheaply and quickly? Me, mr never-built-a-house-before or them, mr (un)professional demolition contractor? 

 

To not even broach the subject of what are you going to do with the crap once he’s knocked the house over?

 

Its either unprofessional bad form or someone trying to get away with overcharging for part of a job and they know there’s a extra cost coming that the client is oblivious to. Which is it?

Edited August 23, 2018 by daiking

[Triassic]

14 minutes ago, daiking said:

unprofessional bad form

+1

 

@laurenco I like you would have expect the house to be removed completely off site. Not for the cowboy to knock it down, pick out the scrap (at least hundreds, if not over a thousand Pound in value) then ride off into the sunset.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2018 by Triassic
Typo

[ToughButterCup]

5 minutes ago, daiking said:

[...]

Which is it?

 

Someone recently posted about the need for care when drafting a response on BH. ( @newhome, maybe ? ) She was absolutely right. I doubt if anyone of us intentionally shames anyone.

And then there's another factor:  how we are feeling when we read those possibly hastily drafted responses.  Mix the two, add a dash of sleeplessness, throw in some normal family-based stress, and you have the makings of a really hard day ahead.

 

The issue that provides the cream on this particular cake is a sector-widespread inability to communicate well. I am only just now beginning to realise just how much more I need to focus on asking , prodding, cajoling, bitching, insisting on an answer. How much more I need to imagine my way through a process and ask basic questions. 

All a contractor has to do to  ' ... win... ' is say nothing. Be incommunicado. Don't answer the phone.   

 

Which is it, you ask. 

CDM 2015 places the responsibility for professional behaviour on the contractor. But that bit of legislation can't be a substitute for trying to create  a good  working relationship. 

 

[Triassic]

3 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

All a contractor has to do to  ' ... win... ' is say nothing. Be incommunicado. Don't answer the phone.   

 

The one lesson I’ve learnt is to be very wary of anyone who does not come recommended.

 

Everyone I’ve used recently has been recommended by other self builders and renovators. I also ask tradesmen I’m happy to work with (not had any tradewomen on site yet) who they’d recommend. Most trades have a network of other trades they work with. Round here that network is known as the Lindale crew.

[ToughButterCup]

3 minutes ago, Triassic said:

The one lesson I’ve learnt is to be very wary of anyone who does not come recommended.

[...]

Round here that network is known as the Lindale crew.

 

Ah  cud tell thee sum stories abart they , 'appen. Raght load a Dell Boys. 

[Triassic]

7 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

Raght load a Dell Boys. 

Very strangely, they all charge the same price.  — £27,50  per hour!

 

Mind you, I know where they live if I need to send the boys round !!!

[newhome]

49 minutes ago, daiking said:

To not even broach the subject of what are you going to do with the crap once he’s knocked the house over?

 

Its either unprofessional bad form or someone trying to get away with overcharging for part of a job and they know there’s a extra cost coming that the client is oblivious to. Which is it?

 

If self building was easy, builders were amazing communicators, and everyone lived up to expectations there would be no need for this forum and I would be living in a parallel universe. I don’t think builders are not to blame in any way in these situations but who stands to lose? Not the builder in general so as always it’s a case of let the buyer beware. 

 

The only thing we have is the power not to pay them, assuming we didn’t pay up front so maybe that’s the way to negotiate here? 

 

The only way we can safeguard ourselves where scope of the work is concerned is to check, check again, and then come on here and ask for advice BEFORE something happens. And put it in writing. Often however that’s not the case and we have many more posters coming on here with issues. If you feel that people are shamed when they do so then that’s your opinion but I’ve had much help from here and never felt shamed. I don’t use the C word in posts either so we are all different ?.