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Processing planked logs

jack

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jack Advanced Member

jack

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A couple of years ago, we planked part of an oak tree that we took down before we built. The aim is to make a table something like this (but without the live edge):

 

http://livingwood.sk/solid-wood-furniture-tables-table-with-steel-legs-s-8

 

The three largest planks will give us 2 x 350mm and 1 x 300mm wide planks once squared off, which gives us the ~1m width we're after.

 

The log we planked had already been lying there for a couple of years when we planked it, and it's been stacked drying in our garage since then.

Naturally, the planks have warped quite a bit while drying out. This is them in our hall after we brought them inside last week:

 

IMG_20180819_103409.thumb.jpg.bb3f0db19632eedd71e90d20fc332046.jpg

 

The planks we're thinking of using are all 50-60mm thick.

 

So the questions are:

 

Given this is seasoned oak, what chance do I realistically have of flattening it out using a hand plane (I have a sharp Record 5 1/2) and cheap electric planer?

 

Failing that, who would you approach about getting the planks flattened? I think I'm after a thicknesser planer, but what sorts of outfits would offer this sort of service to the public? Sawmills? Joiners?

 

Re: the legs, we've had some quotes back from various places and they're pretty eye-watering for what's effectively some bent lengths of steel. Is it realistic to expect to be able to do this myself? If so, ideas on how to approach? I assuming heating the bend points would be helpful, but I really haven't a clue about how to approach something like this!

 

Thanks as always.

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joe90 Advanced Member

joe90

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I have got a thicknesses/planer and planed old oak  boards but it killed the blades, old oak is very hard and contains stuff that blunts blades fast. I guess a joinery shop would give you a price for doing this on an industrial machine and probably join the boards fir you as well. Google “joinery near me”. As far as metal frame, again google “steel fabricators near me” (small firm would be best for small jobs). If you were near me I  could weld something up for you.

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Ferdinand Advanced Member

Ferdinand

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I think you would want steam as well as heat, and the bending needs to be a different operation from the planing.

 

You could presumably build a frame and runner to guide your plane, and an electric plane may do it. I am sure that various of us have them - tbh I would not let mine loose on that without some idea what the condition would be when returned.

 

The best people to ask would probably be an oak table factory ?. Or a smallish timber merchant who have their own kilns etc. Or a joiner who starts from the tree or the plank - they are probably around under categories like "artisan".

 

I recently saw a documentary where there was a business who supplied the components for chairs to a furniture company, and their core busines was bending wood. But no idea how common such are more widely.

 

For the base, what about making some trestles?

 

Ask here?

https://www.woodworkuk.co.uk/forum/

 

F

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Jeremy Harris Advanced Member

Jeremy Harris

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Definitely a job for a planer thicknesser.  A decent sized one with carbide tipped blades would bring all those planks to a consistent thickness pretty quickly and take out any twists/bends that are less than the thickness you want to end up with.  It's not a big job, maybe an hour or so tops for someone with the right machine, and the key to getting decent planks out of it will be using a pretty hefty industrial size machine.

 

The saw mill near us would do this while you wait, but it's a bit far from you.  Have a hunt around and see if you can find a good local saw mill that has a big planer thicknesser and ask them what they'd charge.  I reckon it would be worth getting them done properly, as I don't think you have a hope in hell of getting those boards flat and even with a hand held electric plane, TBH.

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jack Advanced Member

jack

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1 hour ago, joe90 said:

I have got a thicknesses/planer and planed old oak  boards but it killed the blades, old oak is very hard and contains stuff that blunts blades fast. I guess a joinery shop would give you a price for doing this on an industrial machine and probably join the boards fir you as well. Google “joinery near me”. As far as metal frame, again google “steel fabricators near me” (small firm would be best for small jobs). If you were near me I  could weld something up for you.

 

Very kind of you to offer. I'm not sure how much welding is involved - it's mainly about getting a reasonably small-radius bend in the steel.

 

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

Re the steel frame, I would look at buying a cheap table with a cheap top but nice base, and just putting your Oak onto the frame of the cheap table.


We've looked into that option but can't find anything with the right legs. Anything in this general style tends to be very clunky.

 

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

Have a look:

 

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/

 

There'll likely be a hobbyist / home fabricator lives near you who could knock something up! Maybe in st/st?

 

That table you linked is a tidy bit of work. We're thinking of getting it painted/powder coated in RAL 7016, same as our windows.

 

1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

You could presumably build a frame and runner to guide your plane, and an electric plane may do it. I am sure that various of us have them - tbh I would not let mine loose on that without some idea what the condition would be when returned.

 

Everything I've read about oak in the past suggests that it's now probably too tough to do much with hand tools (and a lot of time). I think the toughness that comes with seasoning is a large part of why oak frames are usually done while the oak is green.

 

53 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

The saw mill near us would do this while you wait, but it's a bit far from you.  Have a hunt around and see if you can find a good local saw mill that has a big planer thicknesser and ask them what they'd charge.  I reckon it would be worth getting them done properly, as I don't think you have a hope in hell of getting those boards flat and even with a hand held electric plane, TBH.

 

Suspect you're right. Even if the tools were up to the job, it'd take forever, and there's still a decent chance I wouldn't manage to get it flat anyway.

 

41 minutes ago, newhome said:

What's 'eye-watering'? There are loads of metal legs available on eBay / Amazon. Depends what you have in mind I guess. 


Industrial Table Legs

 

Eye-watering = several hundred quid (admittedly including painting). It's frustrating because I know the cost of the metal is minimal, plus there's little if any cutting or welding involved. Just some bending and a few holes to allow attachment to the tabletop.

 

Yes, there are all sorts of things available online, but most of them we find pretty unappealing tbh. They tend to be roughly made and/or too chunky looking. Believe me, we've looked!

 

32 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

Zero.

But please can I watch you try?

 

No! 

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MikeSharp01 Advanced Member

MikeSharp01

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Don't want to rain on your parade but you may need to take advice from a pro because, IIRC my timber technology from way back, your thickness is going to take more than a few years to season fully and when you plane it you will get down to less seasoned wood which may warp again. There is a real art to seasoning long length hardwoods for cabinet making - long time / very slowly as near the finished thickness as possible and absolutely flat. I have friends who do it and 5 years is nothing to them. You could sell your planks and buy 295mm wide by 20mm oak planks ready for cabinet making, not the same as grow your own I agree, from HERE (where I get mine) but there must be someone  closer to you.  Another way to go would be to use your planks cross wise on the table that way any warping will be less pronounced. Alternatively go for a more rustic look, maybe with gaps between the planks which can accommodate any warping.

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jack Advanced Member

jack

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Interesting stuff, thanks Mike. 


I wouldn't want to pass these on and buy replacements. One of the main aims here is to have the tabletop come from the same site as the house, and to get some meaningful use out of a tree that we felt bad about cutting down (it was in poor nick, but still...).

 

Given it's been around 4 years since the tree was cut down, and 2.5 years since it was planked, I'm willing to take the risk. I can live with a bit of movement after it's made. I'm not interested in a billiard table smooth finish on the top, either.

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Jeremy Harris Advanced Member

Jeremy Harris

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The saw mill chap was talking to me about this a few weeks ago.  For air-dried oak their rule of thumb is one year per inch plus one year, so a 1 inch thick board would take 2 years, a 2 inch thick board three years, etc.  That's for rough sawn boards stacked up in their yard outside to season.

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Declan52 Advanced Member

Declan52

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1 minute ago, jack said:

Sounds like we're order of magnitude in the right region, thanks Jeremy.

 

I'd rather not wait another year - our current table is falling apart!

 

Could you overboard your current table. Use big bolts countersunk into it to pull the warp in. You could even heat treat the bolts to make them appear older. Change the legs to metal/oak and you have a new table.

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jack Advanced Member

jack

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39 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

Could you overboard your current table. Use big bolts countersunk into it to pull the warp in. You could even heat treat the bolts to make them appear older. Change the legs to metal/oak and you have a new table.

 

The existing table isn't in great nick overall, and even with the right top wouldn't be anything like the look we're after. 

 

I was thinking about just dumping a piece of ply in place of the existing tabletop, but that will remove all incentive to get the oak done!

 

27 minutes ago, Construction Channel said:

It would be a hateful job but you could step up a jig for a router to flatten the boards. Then finish them with a belt sander. 

 

Interesting idea. I don't presently have a router, but have long been looking for an excuse to buy one!

 

24 minutes ago, Construction Channel said:

Also when stacking the boards together to make the top remember to alternate the end grains to minimise the cupping. ??

 

The boards will be slightly separated from each other, so this shouldn't be an issue.

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Construction Channel Advanced Member

Construction Channel

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26 minutes ago, Tennentslager said:

Hey @Construction Channel how are your stairs getting on?

If I recall you have access to a big old planer...I'd @jack not quite nearby...no pressure ???

The stair components are all done but the nosing and annoyingly that’s the bit I need to start with. ( I have already made it once but I really should have measured both ends of the piece instead of making assumptions. Either way I need to make it again and the person whose thicknesses it is decided to change the irons on it this week otherwise we could have been done this weekend (if I wasn’t at a wedding in Dublin until Thursday ?)) but yes I do have access to the machines that could do this work quite easily BUT they are not mine so I would feel a little rude offering out their services. Also iirc we arnt that close really so transporting the timber would negate any savings made. 

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Simplysimon Advanced Member

Simplysimon

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2 hours ago, Declan52 said:

Could you overboard your current table. Use big bolts countersunk into it to pull the warp in. You could even heat treat the bolts to make them appear older. Change the legs to metal/oak and you have a new table.

bolts are not going to pull the twist out of seasoned oak at that width. @jack how badly twisted are the boards? as when you flatten them prior to thicknessing them they are going to be a good bit thinner. if not fully seasoned they will then twist again as previously stated

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Temp Advanced Member

Temp

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I've done some work with green and fully seasoned oak. How bad is the twisting?

 

I agree it would certainly be a lot easier to find someone to put it through a planer/thicknesser. However I think if the twisting wasn't too bad, and you can live with it being a bit rustic, I reckon you could get away with an electric plane and a bunch of spare blades. 

 

If DIY would be inclined to just plane the top surface of each plank. I would use packing between the un-planed side and steel frame or a carefully profiled cross member.

 

Never leave anything made of steel (like the plane or other tools) on the oak even for a short time. When you get back from lunch and pick it up there will be a black mark on the oak and more

 

 

 

 

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jack Advanced Member

jack

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2 hours ago, Construction Channel said:

The stair components are all done but the nosing and annoyingly that’s the bit I need to start with. ( I have already made it once but I really should have measured both ends of the piece instead of making assumptions. Either way I need to make it again and the person whose thicknesses it is decided to change the irons on it this week otherwise we could have been done this weekend (if I wasn’t at a wedding in Dublin until Thursday ?)) but yes I do have access to the machines that could do this work quite easily BUT they are not mine so I would feel a little rude offering out their services. Also iirc we arnt that close really so transporting the timber would negate any savings made. 

 

Ha, I know you have this stuff and that it isn't yours. I'd have been at your doorstep with a pile of oak and a case of beer otherwise! :ph34r:

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