Timber frame or brick & Block

[puntloos]

2 hours ago, Big Jimbo said:

I am currently thinking of whether to build in Block and Block........Timber frame, with external Blockwork......... Or just timber frame, clad up top with Cement Board, and rendered on the Bottom half. I would rather build in just timber. Wood I beams would be great for walls and roof. The biggest problem i have is re-sale. I know that these days insurance can be just the same for standard and non standard construction. I am however concerned that somebody looking to get a mortgage on a house that is considered "Non standard construction" could be limited, and that might put them off buying my house . That and the though that non standard (through perhaps lack of understanding) might put them off altogether. I don't want to limit my end market if i decide to sell and move on.

 

Interesting point, I dunno, when buying houses I can't recall a single time that anyone mentioned explicitly the method either direction in their sales pitches. Never mentioned in e.g. rightmove blurbs etc etc. Perhaps there are a few people obsessed either way, but if any thing I think that once the house actually stands, and assuming (...) that it indeed has succeeded, the results would speak for itself.

 

So yes, if you're worried TF has a larger chance of being 'broken' somehow then perhaps not do it, but once it's proven itself, surely it's fine..

[Big Jimbo]

10 hours ago, puntloos said:

 

Interesting point, I dunno, when buying houses I can't recall a single time that anyone mentioned explicitly the method either direction in their sales pitches. Never mentioned in e.g. rightmove blurbs etc etc. Perhaps there are a few people obsessed either way, but if any thing I think that once the house actually stands, and assuming (...) that it indeed has succeeded, the results would speak for itself.

 

So yes, if you're worried TF has a larger chance of being 'broken' somehow then perhaps not do it, but once it's proven itself, surely it's fine..

As i said i would rather build in timber. I think i will have to speak to some mortgage lenders, and brokers to see how different building methods are viewed.

[Moonshine]

O.k I am not saying one way is right.or wrong but these are my thoughts on the way my design is going for a modern rendered flat roofed house.

 

I decided not to go fully timber g8ve the external render, and rendering onto a timber structure just doesn't seem right to me, and in the back of my head have concerns on the potential shinkage of the timber frame and it's effect on the render.

 

That led me to a block external skin, and timber frame internal. This was my preferred option for quite a while. I choose this as you could get u values of about 0.17 with an internal layer of 50mm pir. However the cost was a concern and I am not too concented about getting the frame up in days where block would take week.

 

Thinking about it, I would have the brickies on site anyway for doing the external skin so why not get them on site for longer rather than a separate trade. Also this was coupled with being able to get a u value of 0.17 with a thicker cavity.

 

So in the end I am (currently) going for

 

- rendered 100mm block 

- 150mm full cavity with mineral / glass will (0.032)

- aircrew blocks (0.011)

- dot and dat plaster board.

 

Just my decision process.

 

 

 

 

[TerryE]

On 26/09/2020 at 20:02, puntloos said:

General TF Cons:

- Corrections onsite hard/costly

  - IF something is askew onsite, you are in trouble. If the TF design or the slab was shoddy, weird stuff has to be done. 

- Internal Noisiness

   - Not insurmountable, but because TF just has less 'heft' it is easier to move, which means sound travels easier. 

   - As a result, extra hard work needs to be done to make sure the house is quiet.  As I understand it ICF might be the optimal one here, but if I remember correctly it might be hard to find, perhaps with Brexit doubly so? 

- Underfloor heating

  - Still not quite sure if this is a myth but some extra care needs to be done to allow the 1st floor be able to even carry the UFH pipes, slabs, waterworks etc.

 

Yes, you can be screwed if your slab is off-spec, but one way to mitigate this is (as we did) to get your slab and TF from the same supplier.  I also did a full dimensions and levels check after the slab was finished and before confirming delivery of the frame.  In our case we had a slump of about 3mm in one room which we decided to accept, but the frame plate base was true and accurate so we were happy to proceed.  IMO, this detailed check is essential.

 

We don't notice intra-floor noise, and a twin-wall frame filled with pumped cellulose filler is amazingly solid.  A friend has a PUR insulated single wall TF; this has a smaller cross-section, but isn't nearly so substantial, IMO.  Between floor noise is more of an issue and we do notice this between my son's bedsit on the top floor and the main guest room below on the 1st floor.  However this is more a consequence of using eco-joists than the TF itself.  This being said, EcoJoists make installing all of the between floor services such a doddle that I would still use them if I were doing this again -  but I would install acoustic decoupling  in the guestroom ceiling.

 

We have a pretty high spec in terms of energy efficiency, so we only have UFH on the ground floor, and non on the top two floors.  In the worst couple of months in the winter, I do run a small 2kW heater a few hours a night in my study / 2nd guestroom with the door ajar and this keeps the hall space at around 21°C.  We prefer the the bedrooms being a degree or 2 cooler.

[CalvinHobbes]

On 24/04/2018 at 09:28, jack said:

Cons:

- Internal noise transmission. This is the big one for me - I find it frustrating how noise makes its way between rooms. This might have been improved if the chancers who did my drywalling had installed the insulation better, but I'm not sure how much better it would have been.

- Internal well strength - we used fermacell anywhere we thought we might like to hang something, but even so, whenever I want to put something on a wall, I need to check whether it's fermacell, and if not, go about finding a stud (oo er vicar). Block walls would have been better.

- Vibration - again, maybe something that doesn't bother others, but slamming our (admittedly fairly large) front door causes windows in adjacent rooms to rattle. No big deal, but it constantly reminds me of the construction method. I suspect most others wouldn't find this as distracting as I do (I'm the guy who'll lie awake at night distracted by a mosquito three rooms away).

 

Overall, I'm happy enough with timber frame, but if I were doing it again I'd at least consider using some form of masonry-based construction. 

So wondering is there a good way to get accoustics better?

Also is using block inside more useful for hanging pictures and reducing vibration?

 

[TerryE]

On 03/10/2021 at 00:08, CalvinHobbes said:

So wondering is there a good way to get acoustics better?

 

I've got an MBC TF with external stone skin.  I don't have any issues with room-room noise except between floors, and this is because ecoJoists seem to be very effective at transmitting noise  vertically.

 

On 03/10/2021 at 00:08, CalvinHobbes said:

Also is using block inside more useful for hanging pictures and reducing vibration?

 

We have 12mm board.  You can get a range of decent wall fixings which typically butterfly or balloon in the void, and some are rated up to 25 Kg per fixing, so we've never had any issues with fixings.

[SteamyTea]

Mr G sounds a right (expletive deleted).

I would question why he is so available.

[markc]

On 03/10/2021 at 00:08, CalvinHobbes said:

So wondering is there a good way to get accoustics better?

Also is using block inside more useful for hanging pictures and reducing vibration?

 

Noise transmission in modern building techniques can be horrendous.

in days of old with big heavy solid joists and individual floor boards the mass and joints have a deadening effect. Now you have light weight joists and a solid skin top and bottom so the floor acts like a drum. Insulation and strategically (best guess and experimentation) placed timbers screwed to or between joist can make a massive difference.

fit the floor then jump up and down and add a few timbers to see what has a deadening effect….before fitting ceilings underneath of course.

[TerryE]

19 hours ago, markc said:

Insulation and strategically (best guess and experimentation) placed timbers screwed to or between joist can make a massive difference.

 

We have acoustic insulation between the rafters and in the internal stud walls.  The floors still tend to drum.

[SteamyTea]

Can you bring some sound deadening down here  there is a screaming baby in the cafe.

Owned by one of the Extinction Rebels.

Running my elevensies.

(expletive deleted)ing hippies.

Edited October 26, 2021 by SteamyTea

[TerryE]

Nick, you've got to admit it: you are just another cantankerous old man ?  My kids would unanimously stick me in that category as well. 

[Onoff]

On 26/10/2021 at 11:05, SteamyTea said:

Can you bring some sound deadening down here  there is a screaming baby in the cafe.

Owned by one of the Extinction Rebels.

Running my elevensies.

(expletive deleted)ing hippies.

 

Do you see much of the CLF down there? 

 

In a Toby carvery last night and the grandad at the next table said about their increasingly uppity 2 'ish year old, "We'd best take home home, he's getting a bit stabby!" 

[SteamyTea]

13 minutes ago, Onoff said:

CLF

No idea what that is.

13 minutes ago, Onoff said:

"We'd best take home home, he's getting a bit stabby!" 

W have a deep mine shafts.