Building in Winter?

[Barney12]

OK, so this is possibly the biggest decision of the entire build.

We're delayed by ecology again and that means any hope of a late summer build is long gone.

Realistically we're probably now going to be looking at mid/late November. MBC don't seem worried by a winter build and state that the frame is weather tight. But, I'm concerned that inevitable weather delays could leave the frame exposed longer than I would like. 

The benefit would be that availability of trades to push on with the build will probably be better. 

My roofing contractors view when chatting the other day was that we get too hung up by the weather "It doesn't rain and blow a gale every day, you just have to work round it". He's got a point, major developers don't stop building in the winter they just do it more slowly. 

Personally I'd like to leave it until March but SWMBO is now having a MASSIVE sense of humour failure living in our tiny flat above the garage. In fairness it has taken three years to get this far so she's right to want to home. 

I've even considered seeing what the cost of a scaffold wrapped structure would cost to protect the frame? 

I should point out we're fairly high up and in a fairly exposed position on the Dartmoor National Park?

Should I man up and get on with it or suffer the wrath of SWMBO?

 

[Mikey_1980]

We had that decision to make with our build as we missed out original August start due to sales issues, weren't ready to start until Decemeber and it was a case of do we hold off until March when the weather maybe be better or start ASAP, we but the bullit and the MBC slab went down the week before Christmas and the Frame on the 18th Jan, we had no problems with the Weather other than some heavy rain but as there is no insulation in the frame and plenty of air can get to it until it is weather tight than there is little risk of Damage.

[joe90]

From what I have read about MBC they get a watertight structure very quickly and that's their job. I was planning a straw bale build a few years ago and that is much more prone to water damage and I planned to build a scaffold house around it and build within. Where you are you is exposed so may be a different situation. I would get on with it, we could well have an " Indian summer" ( personally I am praying for it as I am STILL waiting to start my build).

[Jeremy Harris]

Our frame went up during November and was watertight within 4 1/2 days.  We had the worst winter for years, with torrential rain and floods for days on end, and during all that time the house had no roof covering, other than the membrane.  The roofing wasn't completed until near the end of January, because of all the bad weather.

There were no problems at all with water ingress anywhere, the only real issues were that things were delayed by the weather (the rain and wind delayed fitting the PV, for example, as it was too hazardous at times to work on the roof).

[DeeJunFan]

I would take their advice and work away.  The house will dry out, and as they say, it will be weather tight in jig time so shouldn't suffer any real damage

[Barney12]

Thanks guys. My confidence is improving with every post

One thing I didn't (and should have) mention is that the most exposed elevation has some pretty huge windows. So....if the worse happened and the window install was delayed do you think that with the fabrication of some OSB frames to fill the holes we will keep enough weather out? Or, even pay MBC a little extra to take the exterior membrane over the openings and simply cut them back? Even the fairly cheap non tenting membrane I used on the sheds is incredibly tough and hard to tear so assumably has pretty good wind resistance? 

As @joe90 and @recoveringacademic (my fellow delayed builders!) have said a number of times; delays do have the effect of allowing too much thinking time! I'm not sure thats entirely helpful at the early stage. Ironic when once it all gets going I'll probably crave more thinking time! 

[Barney12]

[Jeremy Harris]

Our panels were supplied with the membrane over the external openings.  It was cut back on site and stapled to allow the windows to be fitted

[Mikey_1980]

We have two very large glazed openings and these were open to the elements for 6 weeks, and there was a lot of rain and frosts.

[Declan52]

Having worked outside for too many years you would be surprised how few days over winter where it would be a complete washout. The cold stopped work more as scaffolding isn't much fun when it's frozen.

If you had the roof on before the cold came you would be flying. You can cover up any openings easily enough till the windows go in.

[ToughButterCup]

2 hours ago, Barney12 said:

[...] delays do have the effect of allowing too much thinking time! I'm not sure thats entirely helpful at the early stage. Ironic when once it all gets going I'll probably crave more thinking time! 

Enjoy that time, relish it.

Suddenly (now the EPS Licence has been accepted) I have far too much to do  in too short a time. TAF to dig and put up, piling contractors to find, decisions about services, CLD to chase up, countless little tasks, newts to count, welding, fiddle and faff.... you know where this is going.  

It may well be - I can't know yet - that effect of the ecology delay forces a great deal of the build to the winter. I need to plan for that eventuality. 

If I can't take a joke, I shouldn't have applied for planning permission.

[Jeremy Harris]

The delay can be very beneficial IF you have the right information available. 

We had around a year's delay because of the boundary problem with our plot, and I spent most of that year fretting about heating systems.  Had I known what I know now I'd have put far more thought into ways of providing shade and reducing solar gain, and far less into heating, as it really isn't needed very much.

Unfortunately, at the time we started our "thinking process" there were very few people on the old Ebuild forum that had actually built a passive house (in fact I have a feeling that we may well have been the only ones there looking at building one - more joined later).  That was a real issue, as heating seemed to be a hot topic and I can't recall a single post back then about reducing or controlling solar gain.  As a consequence, we're now having to spend a significant amount of money on fitting heat-reflecting film to the outside of some of the glazing, something that could have easily been avoided had I planned (and argued with the planners) for external shutters on some windows.

[TerryE]

We were lucky enough to be able to coordinate the window installation with the frame erection, so the windows went in starting the last day of the frame erection when the MBC crew were working in the loft anyway, but if you can't do this then (i) make up temporary windows or equiv out of tarpaulin grade clear plastic and (ii) make up a simple lobby out of framing and OSB3 and get yourself the cheapest Wickes exterior door and frame that you can buy so that you can secure the building.  It's just so much easier working out of the wet.

Like Jeremy we had a delay of about 6 months, but ours was between the frame going up and starting the inside work.  This gave us time to experience the space and we made quite a few small changes as a result: swapped the use of an internal bedroom and divided the largest into a bedroom + smallish walk-in wardrobe + ensuite; moved another couple of non-loadbearing internal walls; swapped the side for the racking on another wall.  This also gave us time really to think through the layout of the wet rooms and kitchen.  

Jeremy recommends building a physical model of your build during design -- well there is nothing like a 1:1 model to plan out your house in and this can take time to get right

[ProDave]

My frame went up in the summer and was finished in the Autumn. Because from then on it has only been me working on it, a lot of it was exposed over the winter.

I spend December and January tiling the roof when the weather allowed, and it was only in the spring that I got started on the external cladding and render.  The most exposed, west facing elevation I covered with some left over damp proof membrane to keep the worst of the weather off.

I have known peiople take 2 years doing all the work themselves to get a frame winf and watertight and still have no problems.

 

[Vijay]

Is there a right time to build by the weather - it's June and look at the horrible weather we've had  I'm kinda in the same boat and I'm just gonna start when I can and deal with what ever is thrown at me (or try to anyway lol)

[Construction Channel]

you have the luxury of the build only including one possible winter

I started the day i was granted PD to do the work, October 11 2014

[Barney12]

2 hours ago, Vijay said:

Is there a right time to build by the weather - it's June and look at the horrible weather we've had  I'm kinda in the same boat and I'm just gonna start when I can and deal with what ever is thrown at me (or try to anyway lol)

That's a very valid point. Cold and blowing a gale here this afternoon/ evening. Heavy rain and high winds forecast for tommorow.

great!

[Barney12]

1 hour ago, Construction Channel said:

you have the luxury of the build only including one possible winter

I started the day i was granted PD to do the work, October 11 2014

Who said I'm finishing it within a year? 

I'm more concerned my wife is going to get pregnant as that's what always happens on Grand Designs!  Or perhaps that Kevin bloke is promiscuous ??

[Construction Channel]

theres only so many ways your wife is going to get pregnant

builds really shouldn't take any where near a year, if you have an MBC frame up and on some founds in less than 2 months the rest of it can be carried out quite quickly as long as you are clear about what you want to start with and stick to it.

[ProDave]

8 minutes ago, Construction Channel said:

theres only so many ways your wife is going to get pregnant

builds really shouldn't take any where near a year, if you have an MBC frame up and on some founds in less than 2 months the rest of it can be carried out quite quickly as long as you are clear about what you want to start with and stick to it.

Speak for yourself. Having funds to do it is another pre requisite.

[Ferdinand]

I would have thuoght that a good plan would be:

For a renovation to get the best angles on prices and timings. Buying a house at the end of the season may save 5-10%, since they may not want to be stuck for 6 more months.

1. Buy in autumn.
2. Renovate over rwinter.
3. Move in or sell your existing house or the new one in spring.

For a newbuild I am not so sure. Speculating

1. Have it weathertight by late September.
2. Internal fit and finish over wniter.
3. Landscaping in Jan/Feb. Plant plants in Feb/Mar.

But we can't control things like Planning Delays and Services.

Questions:

1. Are tradesmen cheaper in winter?
2. What about materials?
3. Does productivity fall when working more by artificial light?

Ferdinand

 

Edited June 29, 2016 by Ferdinand

[Jeremy Harris]

Productivity falls on some outside work in winter, just because of the lack of daylight as much as anything else.  Inside work should be the same whatever the season.

[Declan52]

It's very hard to paint or plaster in poor light. Impossible to get it good under a floodlight as well. 

You wouldn't want to be breaking ground in December with a high water table or your site will be a complete mess in no time and you don't be long churning the ground up with machines and delivery lorries. 

Get a good hard road in with a wide access point, some drivers are amazing others are amazing how they are still in a job. A nice flat area to unload all your materials on to. These will make some difference to how your build runs.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

18 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

Get a good hard road in with a wide access point, some drivers are amazing others are amazing how they are still in a job. A nice flat area to unload all your materials on to. These will make some difference to how your build runs.

 

Isn't that the truth!  We found that concrete truck drivers were universally crap, in one case one of our ground works blokes got so pissed off at the truck drivers complete inability to reverse that he physically hauled him out of the cab and reversed the truck up the access track himself.  We had more damage to the access track caused by incompetent concrete truck drivers than any other deliveries.

By contrast, the drivers from our local builders merchant, Sydenhams, were bloody marvellous.  The always, without fail, put the truck in exactly the right place to unload every time, no fuss, no drama and they followed the directions I'd given them (to avoid using their sat nav and ending up in a very narrow lane) every time, without fail. 

About 70% of all other deliveries ignored the note they were given with instructions for the last 500m to the site and blindly followed their sat nav until they got stuck in the narrow lane, then tried to phone or walk down to moan about the poor access.  One driver even just turned around, having driven down from Coventry with a load of drive pavers, when he saw the narrow lane.  He was an hour into his trip back to base when I phoned, got his base to phone him and tell him to turn around.  He ran out of driving hours before he got back to us, so slept in the cab and delivered at 7 the next morning.  He was not a happy bunny and starting going on at me until I told him to read his delivery note out to me, which had the instruction to ignore the sat nav and come in via the main road...............

[Stones]

We have generally always built over the summer period, the idea being that you are likely to have better weather for critical outdoor work.  Building on Orkney is a little different, as their can be some very challenging weather at any time of the year, although so far, it's been very dry (last year was a virtual washout) and we have now thankfully reached a point where if it does rain, it's not going to be too problematic.

We did build one house over winter and TBH, it was a nightmare.  The foundations and initial groundworks were done in the dry, but the day the timber frame was erected it started raining, and didn't stop for 6 weeks.  By the time the roof was on, the frame was sodden - you knocked a nail in and water oozed out of the timber.  With little heat and a lot of moisture in the ambient air, drying out was very slow, which had a knock on impact when it came to decorating.  I'm sure the structure did eventually dry out, but insulation going into a wet frame - not good.