BMcN Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I am looking into my options for my heating choice and whether or not to install PV. My question is, do I need the solar PV to be installed by an MCS accredited installer for the purpose of SAP and getting my EPC? The feed in tariff is so low now I think I would be better to buy a kit and install myself and forget the FIT. For a 4kw integrated system I think it will be 3500-4000 self installed, while a MCS installed system I think will be 6000-6500. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Keep an eye on ebay. I have seen 4KW kits for as low as £2K I don't think the SAP cares if it's on FIT or not, the point is the house generates power so improves the SAP rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 My array was self installed so no FIT. Its fully allowed for in my SAP assessment so I don’t believe it matters. Someone on this forum recommended Wagner Renewables. I purchased everything from them, they’ll put together a full kit for you even down to the stickers to make your CU compliant. Great service. Even if you go for all black branded panels and an in roof system (such as GSE) I doubt it will be much over £3k for the parts. From memory the 2.5kw array on the main house was £2.2k. That’s black panels, GSE, Goodwe inverter and all the related bits (generation meter, isolator, cable etc etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexphd1 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I am on this as well tonight. looking for 18-19 all black panels in roof kit prob GSE. Already have inverter. Maybe a buildhub co-op buy?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 8 hours ago, BMcN said: The feed in tariff is so low now What do you think it is, there are two parts to it, and both tax free for domestic use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 3 hours ago, SteamyTea said: What do you think it is, there are two parts to it, and both tax free for domestic use. I haven't looked it up lately but even with the export payment it's well under 10p per KWh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Export is 5.03 and 3.93 for generation. so as near as damn it, 9p/kWh. Really not to be sniffed at as it is worth about 300 to 400 a year on a 4 kWp system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le-cerveau Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 It is 3.93 (0-10kW) or 4.15 (10-50kW) p/kWh for systems connected Jan-Mar 18 and 5.03 p/kWh for export compared with the 40-50 p/kWh for generation in 2011!! Crossed with SteamyTea Who knows what it will be post 31 Mar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Really not to be sniffed at as it is worth about 300 to 400 a year on a 4 kWp system. And that's for 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 34 minutes ago, le-cerveau said: It is 3.93 (0-10kW) or 4.15 (10-50kW) p/kWh for systems connected Jan-Mar 18 and 5.03 p/kWh for export compared with the 40-50 p/kWh for generation in 2011!! Crossed with SteamyTea Who knows what it will be post 31 Mar. So that's in total of 6.44p per KWh (generation plus 50% deemed export} On a 4KW system here generating typically 3100KWh per year (a bit more down south) that would be a total payment of £199.64 per year. Assuming the "mcs premium" for having the system supplied and installed my an MCS contractor is £2000 (compared to a cheap DIY system) then that is 10 years payback time for the mcs premium. You may decide that is worth it? If you look at the total figures of an mcs system costing say £4K to install, then it will take the whole 20 years of the FIT contract to recoup the initial cost. You really have to want solar PV mostly for self usage to make it worthwhile. Gone are the days when the FIT payment would pay for the system in 5 or 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 The way I see it is that you don't loose getting payment, but you never gain going down the DIY route. Ideally they should end up costing the same and the export part is inflation linked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 The way I see it, the MCS company should charge a fair price for the labour they supply and charge a fair retail price for the material they supply. It irks me that they seem to charge way more than this because they are the only ones able to sign the paperwork for the FIT so abuse that position. The result is the only people that now "benefit" from the likes of FIT and RHI are the installers that end up with most of the payment in their pocket. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, SteamyTea said: The way I see it is that you don't loose getting payment, but you never gain going down the DIY route. Surely one gain is not having the aditional capital outlay? You are effectively a ‘lender’ to pay the MCS installers premium. Edited March 22, 2018 by Barney12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Another issue for me is how long will you be in the house? We are building this one as our retirement home for the long term, but who knows, plans change. The point is, unless you KNOW beyond any doubt you will be in the house > 10 years, then there is a risk that should you move you will not have recovered the mcs premium before you move. And don't expect the solar PV to add any value to the house or make it attractive to many buyers. It is only 6 years since we installed the solar PV on the old house, but the much higher (original) FIT rate means that has all been paid for now. So I accept i won't add value to the house but at least we have recovered what we spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richi Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 4 hours ago, ProDave said: So that's in total of 6.44p per KWh (generation plus 50% deemed export} Plus an additional 6p for the grid electricity you don't use (assuming 50% @ 12p/kW∙h) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, BMcN said: I am looking into my options for my heating choice and whether or not to install PV. My question is, do I need the solar PV to be installed by an MCS accredited installer for the purpose of SAP and getting my EPC? The feed in tariff is so low now I think I would be better to buy a kit and install myself and forget the FIT. For a 4kw integrated system I think it will be 3500-4000 self installed, while a MCS installed system I think will be 6000-6500. Thanks WHere does that £6000-6500 come from? Sounds high. Asked the people who installed mine a couple of years ago about their 2018 price for a 4kw system recently as a check and it was about £4500-£4800 for a MCS system, which would include the inverter etc. That is about 5-10 percent below the price they offered me for 4kw on a Bungalow in September 2015, which was £4999 for monocrystallne 250W black panels, the inverter, fitting,and an extra small consumer unit as the existing is full. Ferdinand Edited March 22, 2018 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 15 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: Asked the people who installed mine a couple of years ago about their 2018 price for a 4kw system recently as a check and it was about £4500-£4800 for a MCS system, which would include the inverter etc. Thar's the price I would expect. Based on I expect to be able to buy a system for DIY installation for under £2500 that confirms the "mcs premium" is in the order of £2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 In theory, the MCS premium is not the MCS supply and install cost minus the cost of hardware. It's the difference between the cost of supply and install by MCS and non-MCS installers. Are there non-MCS installers of PV though? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stones Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Ferdinand said: WHere does that £6000-6500 come from? Sounds high. Asked the people who installed mine a couple of years ago about their 2018 price for a 4kw system recently as a check and it was about £4500-£4800 for a MCS system, which would include the inverter etc. That is about 5-10 percent below the price they offered me for 4kw on a Bungalow in September 2015, which was £4999 for monocrystallne 250W black panels, the inverter, fitting,and an extra small consumer unit as the existing is full. Ferdinand Depends where you live and the availability of installers. When I was looking at installing in 2016, the only local installer wanted £6500 for an in roof system (£6000 on roof), and this was after the tariff drop. I could have got someone from the mainland up, but by the time additional travel time, ferry and accommodation costs had been added, it was £5750. Looking at a DIY system, £2500 was the going price at the time, you then had to buy the fixings (another £500 or so) and pay for labour and an electrician. I reckoned it would be £3500 all done for a non MCS system installed by others. Generation at my location 2950 kWh/yr according to PVGIS, so an income of £190 / yr. The saving of 800 kWh of electricity at 11.5p, and 2000 kWh diverted to DHW (replacing DHW produced by the ASHP at a cost of 4.79 kWh) totaled £187, so altogether £377 pa MCS system payback £5750 / £377 = 15 years (not including cost of inverter replacement at 10 years) Non MCS system payback £3500 / £187 = 18 years (not including cost of inverter replacement at 10 years) As @ProDave says, it needs careful consideration of your circumstances to decide whether the investment is worthwhile. I concluded that it wasn't for me. The calculation will no doubt change as battery storage becomes more affordable or if I switch to an EV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 2 hours ago, jack said: In theory, the MCS premium is not the MCS supply and install cost minus the cost of hardware. It's the difference between the cost of supply and install by MCS and non-MCS installers. Are there non-MCS installers of PV though? Like gas, they have to train, qualify and maintain their status. A regular spark could fit a 'non MCS' PV array, just like any tom, dick or harry could. Would they be good at it ? ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Part of an MCS installation involves a structural engineer signing off the roof structure. I think this was driven by the insurance companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMcN Posted March 26, 2018 Author Share Posted March 26, 2018 Thanks for the input. The current FIT rates put my payback at around 11-12 years on current quotes. The payback seems to be similar for a self installed system of the same size. Over the life of the system the FIT clearly wins, however does involve a large outlay at the time of building, which I would prefer to avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivienz Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 I looked into getting an MCS PV install recently, in north Dorset. I couldn't even get a quote from the firm's I tried, they said their installers were booked for the foreseeable future. Sounded rather like bs and they just didn't want the work but it does negate the argument over whether to go for an MCS install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexphd1 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Just to update, in the end i went the FIT direction. £4.9k, 4.7kw in roof system. Ok branded black panels, GSE in roof kit but no inverter ( I ended up with 4kw SMA inverter in the bulk deal with solar thermal panels). Little mark up here and there but i reckon its costing me all in approx £1200 extra for the FIT, My slater (me) is also in charge of installing the gse kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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