Balcony Solar Is Coming!

[joth]

7 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Ah! How does it then not electrocute the poor sole holding the pins of the plug?

Same as existing hard-wired inverters really: they have anti-islanding tech that only activates the inverter after it senses stable grid waveform on the plug.

 

How it deals with 2 or more inverters all on the same circuit being islanded together, I'm not sure.

 

 

[Dillsue]

37 minutes ago, joth said:

Same as existing hard-wired inverters really: they have anti-islanding tech that only activates the inverter after it senses stable grid waveform on the plug.

Not sure I'd want to hold the ac connection on any inverter with panels connected. I beleive the grid disconnect is via relays/contactors and I know the contacts do weld from time to time.

[Dillsue]

2 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Don't the modern single block mcb+rcbo units do this, if not why do they have a neutral terminal.

The neutral needs to pass through an RCD/RCBO to monitor for earth leakage if there's an imbalance in current in the live and neutral. You don't have to break the neutral to do the monitoring although I think you can get double pole RCBOs in a single module width.

[SimonD]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

Ah! How does it then not electrocute the poor sole holding the pins of the plug?

 

[Nickfromwales]

3 hours ago, SimonD said:

 

Quite interesting! Thanks for that.

[Nickfromwales]

3 hours ago, Dillsue said:

The neutral needs to pass through an RCD/RCBO to monitor for earth leakage if there's an imbalance in current in the live and neutral. You don't have to break the neutral to do the monitoring although I think you can get double pole RCBOs in a single module width.

People will just be plugging these in with near zero GAF though, I expect.

[Nickfromwales]

7 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Although amended by @Nickfromwales the inverter will have a 13A type plug, to allow it plug directly into a standard wall socket.

I'll get my coat.......

[JohnMo]

6 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Ah! How does it then not electrocute the poor sole holding the pins of the plug?

Inverter is dead without mains, otherwise you kill every lines man in a power cut.

[Beelbeebub]

2 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Inverter is dead without mains, otherwise you kill every lines man in a power cut.

Or more likely - your inverter shuts down as it tries to power the entire local grid. 

[SteamyTea]

I am pretty sure that the safety regulations have thought about all the issues above, so as long as the kit meets the safety standards, there will not be  unmanageable problems.

[JohnMo]

42 minutes ago, Beelbeebub said:

Or more likely - your inverter shuts down as it tries to power the entire local grid. 

No they operate the DC in an island mode - a bucket load of safety protocols built-in.

[Roger440]

2 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

I am pretty sure that the safety regulations have thought about all the issues above, so as long as the kit meets the safety standards, there will not be  unmanageable problems.

 

Which is brilliant. Until all the stuff that doesnt meet the relevant safety standard floods in. Which it already is, in large quantities. And no one is doing anything about. 

 

Then there will be people, as Nick suggested getting electrocuted holding a plug. For example.

 

I posted on the other thread about my "Amazon Chinese transformer". Its the wild west out there.

[SimonD]

1 hour ago, Roger440 said:

I posted on the other thread about my "Amazon Chinese transformer". Its the wild west out there.

 

Some years ago I bought a replacement charger for my macbook air, thinking it was a proper one and after a few months both my boys started complaining that they were getting electric shocks from the aluminium casing. I didn't believe them until I was sat there and got this tingling electrical feeling in my fingers and arms. When I went back to Amazon the seller had been deleted and there was no comeback at the time. I am very very careful about buying anything electrical from that place and some other markeplaces!

[-rick-]

12 hours ago, SimonD said:

Some years ago I bought a replacement charger for my macbook air, thinking it was a proper one and after a few months both my boys started complaining that they were getting electric shocks from the aluminium casing. I didn't believe them until I was sat there and got this tingling electrical feeling in my fingers and arms. When I went back to Amazon the seller had been deleted and there was no comeback at the time. I am very very careful about buying anything electrical from that place and some other markeplaces!

 

This isn't a fault and can happen even with apple original chargers. Happens with mine.

 

It's caused by the noise suppression capacitor in the power supply. The supply is fully isolated from mains voltage except for that capacitor. Because the power supply runs at high frequency a limited amount of current can pass through that capacitor and that can lead to the tingling feeling. It's a very small amount of current and considered safe. (And the capacitors are special safety rated ones which means they are tested to fail in a safe way).

[TedM]

I wonder how they're going to deal with G98 and G99.
Are they going to exempt anything less than 1kW from G98?  Otherwise there's going to be a big pile of applications to be dealt with!

And then there are people with an existing G98 installation who want a bit more - are they going to have to submit (and pay for) a G99 application?

[Dillsue]

15 minutes ago, TedM said:

I wonder how they're going to deal with G98 and G99.
Are they going to exempt anything less than 1kW from G98?  Otherwise there's going to be a big pile of applications to be dealt with!

And then there are people with an existing G98 installation who want a bit more - are they going to have to submit (and pay for) a G99 application?

There's already some exemptions within G98 for less than 800watt generators but the bulk of requirements are likely to still apply?? Most of the requirements are to ensure safety and grid stability so you wouldn't want to loose those.

 

Definitely need to retain the notification process or you could end up with a massive install base on say a block of flats pushing the local voltage through the roof on a sunny day

 

If you want to above 3.68kw then G99, but if you're adding to existing but staying under the 3.86kw limit for multiple G98 certified systems then I guess you submit a new G98 notification and list all the devices with a total certified limit of 3.68kw??

[torre]

On 25/03/2026 at 19:09, SteamyTea said:

so as long as the kit meets the safety standards, there will not be  unmanageable problems

 

Balcony solar is a great idea and countries like Germany have proved it can work, but there will have to be much stricter policing of imports than we've seen for eBikes and scooters or any decent size apartment building is bound to end up with some panels that don't meet regulations.

[SteamyTea]

40 minutes ago, torre said:

 

Balcony solar is a great idea and countries like Germany have proved it can work, but there will have to be much stricter policing of imports than we've seen for eBikes and scooters or any decent size apartment building is bound to end up with some panels that don't meet regulations.

I suspect the biggest risk to public health will be panels falling on people.

[markc]

10ish years ago I had an apartment in Leeds city centre, the lease did not allow anything to be attached to a balcony or anything to be left on a balcony unattended. 

[Mike]

6 hours ago, markc said:

the lease did not allow anything to be attached to a balcony or anything to be left on a balcony unattended

In Germany they brought in a law a couple of years ago that voided such restrictions: Germany Grants Renters the Right to Install Solar Systems on Balconies

[-rick-]

43 minutes ago, Mike said:

In Germany they brought in a law a couple of years ago that voided such restrictions: Germany Grants Renters the Right to Install Solar Systems on Balconies

 

Post Grenfell I can't see that happening here, for larger blocks anyway. Maybe below 11m.

[Roger440]

10 hours ago, TedM said:

I wonder how they're going to deal with G98 and G99.
Are they going to exempt anything less than 1kW from G98?  Otherwise there's going to be a big pile of applications to be dealt with!

And then there are people with an existing G98 installation who want a bit more - are they going to have to submit (and pay for) a G99 application?

 

There cannot be anyway that people will be, or be expected to apply for G98. Outside this small group on the forum, than man on the street has no idea about such things.

 

If said panels are availble in Lidl, they will buy them and plug them in.

 

 

[JohnMo]

21 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

apply for G98

You don't apply for it, it just a notification, saying your house has a generator that do upto 3.6kW output.

 

But really if all or most houses have some generation, you should almost flip the notification, to you don't have a generation connected to the grid. Or just scrap the needless bureaucracy. And it is paperwork for the sake of it, to keep the masses in their place 

[Roger440]

2 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

You don't apply for it, it just a notification, saying your house has a generator that do upto 3.6kW output.

 

But really if all or most houses have some generation, you should almost flip the notification, to you don't have a generation connected to the grid. Or just scrap the needless bureaucracy. And it is paperwork for the sake of it, to keep the masses in their place 

 

Well, yes, you notify them, but they can reject it/question it should they choose to do so.

 

But the G98 form is completely inappropiate for this. Ie, it asks for the qualifications of the installer. Clearly this is nonsense for a plug in panel.

 

Im confident that it wont apply in this case if this idea comes to fruition.

[Dillsue]

8 hours ago, Roger440 said:

 

Well, yes, you notify them, but they can reject it/question it should they choose to do so.

 

But the G98 form is completely inappropiate for this. Ie, it asks for the qualifications of the installer. Clearly this is nonsense for a plug in panel.

 

Im confident that it wont apply in this case if this idea comes to fruition.

That's not how it works. The right to connect generation up to 3.68kw is defined in the national terms of connection which is what legally governs everyone's connection. There's likely some exceptional situations where a DNO can object but generally everyone can connect up to 3.68kw.

 

I put self installed on my G99 and my son in law put self installed on his G98 both accepted by our DNO

 

Some sort of notification should exist so DNOs can manage the network. That could be a part prefilled G98 included with plug in solar so the buyer only has to fill in their address and post it. Not onerous stall to do that