ToughButterCup Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Just a quick one: does a wall plate (rim joist) have to be a continuous piece of timber? I ask because a visiting rep asked me if I needed the wall plate to be one continuous piece of timber. Maximum uninterrupted run is just under ten meters. Nowhere in the architect's notes does he mention a continuous run of timber for the wall plate. Thanks. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassanclan Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 No it doesnt have to be continous. If you try and get a 10m length it will unlikely be straight and probably expensive. You put a half lap joint in where the two timbers meet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 Ha! one of those... half laps. I last made one of those in woodwork lessons in 1965. I still remember the shame of getting 5 out of ten for it (probably less). My mate, got 8 out of 10. Creep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassanclan Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 It's not a ddifficult joint, but there will be a few of them, you need them on the corners as well, so by the end of the job you'll be a 10/10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Here's one I made earlier: It's got galvanised expanded metal stapled to the underside to provide a key to the mortar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassanclan Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Or bang a few concrete screws in to fix it to the brickwork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 3 minutes ago, Onoff said: Here's one I made earlier: It's got galvanised expanded metal stapled to the underside to provide a key to the mortar. .... and was CNC cut from steel and then galvanised to within an inch of its life ..... Real question is how are you holding down the wallplates to the walls ..?? Are you glueing/bolting the plates to the concrete core ..? I'm not sure how you can use ordinary straps as you can't screw them tight to the concrete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Also Ian Make sure that any pieces you put in will carry three trusses between the two joints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 5 minutes ago, PeterW said: .... and was CNC cut from steel and then galvanised to within an inch of its life ..... Real question is how are you holding down the wallplates to the walls ..?? Are you glueing/bolting the plates to the concrete core ..? I'm not sure how you can use ordinary straps as you can't screw them tight to the concrete. Radial arm saw actually! How about on a bed of muck first in Ian's case then backed up with resin studs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 14 minutes ago, nod said: Also Ian Make sure that any pieces you put in will carry three trusses between the two joints Interesting. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 Before I forget @Onoff, I have noticed how carefully you mark stuff out. I'm trying to imitate your style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 22 minutes ago, PeterW said: [...] Real question is how are you holding down the wallplates to the walls ..?? Are you glueing/bolting the plates to the concrete core ..? I'm not sure how you can use ordinary straps as you can't screw them tight to the concrete. Bolting to the core. BUT (here's where it gets interesting) This post explains the problem: in essence fixing the wall plate to an outer surface is different to fixing it to the inner surface of the wall because on the inside, the concrete is just under the wooden 'sheath'. The outside of the block has 120mm of PIR between the wall plate and the concrete. Durisol say: cut a 100mm core 50mm deep into the outer face, remove the PIR. Drill the concrete ready for the bar, put some resin in the concrete and put the threaded bar in. Allow to dry. Plug the 100mm by 50mm 'core' with a cement and water mix: consistency - yogourt. Fix the wall plate. Faff..... Comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 22 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said: Interesting. Why? Same rule as the for the roof or chamber straps cover three joists or trusses I think with the wallplate BC don't like to see a tiny piece on the end As long as your smallest piece is 1300 or more you'll be fine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 2 hours ago, recoveringacademic said: Bolting to the core. BUT (here's where it gets interesting) This post explains the problem: in essence fixing the wall plate to an outer surface is different to fixing it to the inner surface of the wall because on the inside, the concrete is just under the wooden 'sheath'. The outside of the block has 120mm of PIR between the wall plate and the concrete. Durisol say: cut a 100mm core 50mm deep into the outer face, remove the PIR. Drill the concrete ready for the bar, put some resin in the concrete and put the threaded bar in. Allow to dry. Plug the 100mm by 50mm 'core' with a cement and water mix: consistency - yogourt. Fix the wall plate. Faff..... Comes to mind. I'd chech with building control Ian Tgey may still want straps every 1800 and a mortar bed under the wallplate I put two steels acros my garage and the one I built for the neighbour I bolted the wallplate every 450 and were it leaped onto 420 of block work I packed it with slate Due to torrential rain My wife met him for the inspection He pointed out that were the wallplate is in contact with masonary it should have a motar Joint under it Sort of glad I wasn't there Oh I knocked a truss clip down the cavity He also pointed out that I'd one missing Thats the only thing he has ever pulled up on our build One more thing was he insisted that I used 4x3 wallplate on the house rather than the 4x2 I used on the garages I ran this by the engineer as it would cause me to have to re jig things adding 25 mill to the roof height His reply was both will do the same job We used the 4x3 without really knowing why he was so insistent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 4x3 is becoming standard - it's what I had to use too. A mortar bed is designed to take up the irregularity between the timber and the block work below. I can't see how you can do that unless you've got a copy or a photo of the top wall plate detail ..? and coring out the Durisol sounds a real faff - is that their only option ..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 The mortar bed must be a regional thing. When I was down south they did that, but both builds in Scotland the wall plate goes straight onto the blocks (they do take time to ensure they are all flat and level) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Construction Channel Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 I think we may be confusing the application here, I assume @recoveringacademic is referring to the plate he is fixing to the side of the wall, not a plate he is putting on top of a wall. just to be clear but i could be wrong, FWIW we bed our plates on as well, (the ones on top of walls) treated 4x2, concrete screws about every 500 and 1200-1500 long plate straps every 1500, but i think this is not what Ian is asking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 13 hours ago, Construction Channel said: [...] I assume @recoveringacademic is referring to the plate he is fixing to the side of the wall, not a plate he is putting on top of a wall. just to be clear but i could be wrong, [...] I'm talking about rim joists - which are often -confusingly- called wall plates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Riiiiigght .... Rim joist should be the depth of the joists they are supporting and a minimum of 47mm thick. This allows twist shank nails to be used to fix the joist hangers without coming through the back. I'm bemused by the Durisol use of "yoghurt consistency" cement to fill a hole in a vertical plane - it's going to run straight back out ...!! if you wanted some structural strength to the Durisol then cast some concrete "plugs" in short lengths of 50mm waste pipe slightly less than the thickness of the Durisol and core the Durisol and insert one in each hole - it would spread the twisting load. Other option is a second row of bolts staggered with the first so you're at 400mm/c top and bottom of the rim joist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 13 minutes ago, PeterW said: I'm bemused by the Durisol use of "yoghurt consistency" cement to fill a hole in a vertical plane - it's going to run straight back out ...!! They probably meant Greek yoghurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 1 hour ago, jack said: They probably meant Greek yoghurt. Low fat ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: Low fat ? Don't be silly. You want the proper high octane leaded version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiehamy Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Don't think they will work here but maybe helpful for others in future - we placed the wallplates when we poured the ICF with concrete. I had predrilled and fitted the bolts into the timber (think we used 6x2), was a case of laying on, levelling, pushing the bolts down, wiggling about, some taps with a hammer to ensure concrete encased the bolt, then tightening bolts when the concrete had gone off. Was strangely satisfying actually! https://www.roofingsuperstore.co.uk/product/roofing-hook-bolt-150mm-including-nut-boxes-of-100.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted September 28, 2017 Author Share Posted September 28, 2017 23 hours ago, PeterW said: Riiiiigght .... [...] if you wanted some structural strength to the Durisol then cast some concrete "plugs" in short lengths of 50mm waste pipe slightly less than the thickness of the Durisol and core the Durisol and insert one in each hole - it would spread the twisting load. Other option is a second row of bolts staggered with the first so you're at 400mm/c top and bottom of the rim joist. What a brilliant idea...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Incidentally, here is a huge blog post about a Durisol build near Edinburgh. The blgo is called Edinkist, and is structured as as a single post with abotu 30 updates. https://edinkist.wordpress.com/diary-of-the-build/ Also technicals: https://edinkist.wordpress.com/technical-details/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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