Vaillant ashp (my battle with).

[joe90]

4 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Or D) get them to provide a smaller buffer, which CAN -just- be accommodated in a downstairs area corner.

This is what I said earlier, if you don’t ask you won’t know, when you get an answer you can then move on.

[TonyT]

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Thoughtful post TT, appreciated. 
 

I'm a but reticent about providing them with, or highlighting the heat loss calcs.. because someone (possibly installer) along the way of this install said "yr house isn't suitable, we don't think an ashp idea is feasable". I of course ironically chimed in pls pls just can we go with it?? (again only as it'd give me a new cylinder was my thinking/ £1k saving to me is alot). Grant folks relented. So in a way I "deserve" my issues.. a cynic would say.

 

Hmm. Might be shooting meself in the foot if I dig this heat loss calcs subject up/ possibly giving them an exit strategy to pull out of the offer you see.

 

Will think, thanks.

 

Zoot

You don’t give them heat loss calculations, THEY give it to you as part of the design for the install…….

 

every house is suitable for a heat pump, it just needs designed correctly, appropriate electrical tariffs selected etc etc

[PeterW]

3 hours ago, TonyT said:

every house is suitable for a heat pump, it just needs designed correctly, appropriate electrical tariffs selected etc etc

I would disagree there as some have heat loss that is so significant that the ASHP sizing becomes so large that a 3ph unit is required and the cost of running on electricity becomes prohibitive.

 

I would seriously go backwards with this - 2 oven oil Aga is peanuts on Facebook marketplace, add an oil tank and go for permanent background warmth from October to April.. immersion in the hot water tank for the summer months and a cheap induction hob and air fryer for the months the Aga is off …

[TonyT]

 

Sure can agree with that , but you can also design lots of things out, add insulation to reduce heat loss etc.

 

i run a 3 phase 72kw unit at work to heat a big building…. So I know you can do it.

 

[zoothorn]

On 30/08/2023 at 16:44, joe90 said:

This is what I said earlier, if you don’t ask you won’t know, when you get an answer you can then move on.

Believe me Joe90.. I've not only asked them this, just after this fridge sized extra unit was sprung on me last August. No. I then begged them. No.

 

So I need some other argument help, to try this request again. Partly the reason for my thread.

[joe90]

2 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

So I need some other argument help,

Then why did you include option D) in your earlier response 🤷‍♂️. It would appear you only have two options, find room for a buffer or refuse to have an ASHP 🤔

[zoothorn]

On 30/08/2023 at 17:40, TonyT said:

You don’t give them heat loss calculations, THEY give it to you as part of the design for the install…….

 

every house is suitable for a heat pump, it just needs designed correctly, appropriate electrical tariffs selected etc etc

TT, with respect, my cottage is utterly unsuitable: thick slate stone & mud walls on a bed of clay, with a 3" concrete floor poured on. Then cold pouring down from the upper floor into this main central room, via stairwell & also perimeter (straight down cold loft air). All these aspects I cannot affect (bar a curtain across stairwell: as good as useless).

 

I'm resigned to this house being cold. Even a 10kw stove can barely heat the room, running so full & hot it's parts bend inside, for 3 hours flat out: the couch 1.5m away.. is still cold.
 

The cold, & trying to marry an ashp (you cannot do it!) is a loding battle & nothing of relevance here. I keep trying to explain this.
 

Only this huge tank suddenly sprung on me is what Im asking about. Nothing else at all is relevant to this thread.

 

Thanks, Zoot

[zoothorn]

4 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Then why did you include option D) in your earlier response 🤷‍♂️. It would appear you only have two options, find room for a buffer or refuse to have an ASHP 🤔

Ok, if that's the conclusion... I'm resigned to choose. I was hoping there might be some other thinking, I hadn't thought of. Building an outside unit? This is something someone suggested you see: Tbh FAR easier a prospect than building in a cramped dark mice ridden loft, with access hatch so tiny I can barely get my tum through let alone build materials up.

 

Thanks, Zoot

[zoothorn]

22 hours ago, PeterW said:

I would disagree there as some have heat loss that is so significant that the ASHP sizing becomes so large that a 3ph unit is required and the cost of running on electricity becomes prohibitive.

 

I would seriously go backwards with this - 2 oven oil Aga is peanuts on Facebook marketplace, add an oil tank and go for permanent background warmth from October to April.. immersion in the hot water tank for the summer months and a cheap induction hob and air fryer for the months the Aga is off …

 

Hi Peter, this is an ideal scenario though.

 

I have no money to consider other options (whilst also accepting this replacement: to not do so & keep mine, which is deemed unfit & effectively broken, is potty.
 

I have -only- the option of this monoblock. Hence the thread. How I navigate this wretched forced-upon-me extra huge unit... is the sole, the only thing, I'm asking about; suggesting entirely other systems, with due respect (& you're likely right in any situation whereby I had any position to choose alternatives).. is totally n/a.

[ProDave]

5 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I have -only- the option of this monoblock. Hence the thread. How I navigate this wretched forced-upon-me extra huge unit... is the sole, the only thing, I'm asking about;

Then let them come and fit the monoblock, with a buffer tank if they insist.

 

Give it a fair chance and only then discuss any new problems that come with the new system.  Rejecting it because you think there might be a problem is not valid reason for rejecting it.

[zoothorn]

Thanks chaps. I'm just exhausted trying to explain time & again, & reading other heating ideas & heat loss calcs suggestions is actually adding unnecessary stress.

 

I have the idea which I had forgotten about- building an outside insulated housing. Many thanks to whoever suggested this meaning it has some validity & so I can consider it.
 

I don't think I have any other choice. But I will try pressing them with one last gasp effort to give me a smaller one,mor, none & I bear any consequences. If I have the energy.

 

Appreciated, Zoot 

[zoothorn]

4 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Then let them come and fit the monoblock, with a buffer tank if they insist.

 

Give it a fair chance and only then discuss any new problems that come with the new system.  Rejecting it because you think there might be a problem is not valid reason for rejecting it.

Hi ProDave.

 

Ok you've kinda given me an angle/ idea I hadn't thought of. I've just the energy left to think on it, without giving up.

 

That is: could I possibly -change, or swap out entirely- this damn thing once fitted?? iE later. Even if it costs say £500 to do so (I have no more £budget).. I'd jump at the chance.

 

Then...

..I throw it in the Ystwyth.

 

Zh 

[SteamyTea]

40 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Only this huge tank suddenly sprung on me

How big is it, huge is a dimentionless unit and means nothing.

20 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I'm just exhausted trying to explain time & again

Sounds like a teacher with an uncooperative student.

[TonyT]

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

TT, with respect, my cottage is utterly unsuitable: thick slate stone & mud walls on a bed of clay, with a 3" concrete floor poured on. Then cold pouring down from the upper floor into this main central room, via stairwell & also perimeter (straight down cold loft air). All these aspects I cannot affect (bar a curtain across stairwell: as good as useless).

 

I'm resigned to this house being cold. Even a 10kw stove can barely heat the room, running so full & hot it's parts bend inside, for 3 hours flat out: the couch 1.5m away.. is still cold.
 

The cold, & trying to marry an ashp (you cannot do it!) is a loding battle & nothing of relevance here. I keep trying to explain this.
 

Only this huge tank suddenly sprung on me is what Im asking about. Nothing else at all is relevant to this thread.

 

Thanks, Zoot

Just like the other threads then eh, not willing to listen to anyone offering sensible advise..

heat loss calculations will show you how to heat your house in its current state and offer factual information on how to improve it…

 

I feel tired too

 

[zoothorn]

34 minutes ago, TonyT said:

Just like the other threads then eh, not willing to listen to anyone offering sensible advise..

heat loss calculations will show you how to heat your house in its current state and offer factual information on how to improve it…

 

I feel tired too

 

Tony.

 
I have asked for advice on a huge tank. Nothing  else. They have stalwartly said is to be fitted. No choice they say. I am asking -----only------ about anything anyone can think of of to either go with their insistence this is placed in my house/ accommodate this huge tank, or,  any idea I could conceivably argue for a smaller one or none at all.

 

But you ------insist-------- on an entirely different agenda about calculations. Sorry, this is getting infuriating & you are adding to my stress.

 

Zoot.

 

 

He

[joe90]

10 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

I have asked for advice on a huge tank.

You keep saying huge but as @SteamyTea said earlier, what is huge? Have they given you dimensions or capacity (litres)?

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

How big is it, huge is a dimentionless unit and means nothing.

Sounds like a teacher with an uncooperative student.

ST. I have said 6 odd times the dims of this tank thing. (asumptions, that I've not done so... adds to my stress too). 
 

1m x 0.5m.

 

Nr size of a fridge. I only have council house space here.
 

My current ashp this is meant to be a replacement for..

 

..has no such extra tank. None. Zilch. Nada:

 

so why this is even of existence for me to consider accommodating, I thought might at least by now have been explained by the experts here. 

 

Zoot

 

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, joe90 said:

You keep saying huge but as @SteamyTea said earlier, what is huge? Have they given you dimensions or capacity (litres)?

Joe90. The capacity of it, the function of it even, are of total irrelevance compared to just ONE aspect.

 

One aspect -only- is of any need for consideration, for me, in my house. One aspect -only- for the thread.

 

Its size. The space it needs. I couldn't care less what it actually is (once I am reasonably sure it makes no noise). It's function, for this thread, is 100% IRRELEVANT.

 

It's relatively huge size (not for you with your garage probably no) for me................ is hugely problematic. Hugely.

 

Zoot

 

 

 

[ProDave]

10 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

My current ashp this is meant to be a replacement for..

 

..has no such extra tank. None. Zilch. Nada:

 

so why this is even of existence for me to consider accommodating, I thought might at least by now have been explained by the experts here. 

Your existing one is s split system, being replaced because the indoor unit is noisy.  The monoblock won't have this indoor unit, so surely the buffer tank can go in that place?

[joe90]

Look @zoothorn your threads read like war and piece, I and others realise you have no room but you have been offered free a heating devise that requires a buffer so your choice is a simple one, you accept it and find room or refuse it,  simples. !!! Stop stressing about technical things that are not relevant.

[zoothorn]

10 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Your existing one is s split system, being replaced because the indoor unit is noisy.  The monoblock won't have this indoor unit, so surely the buffer tank can go in that place?

Perfectly reasonable question thanks ProDave.

 

1) I have zero trust this tank will be silent. I think you can appreciate after countless failed promises saying my hydraulic unit 'won't make noise'... then 'yes it makes bad noise, but we'll fix it'... dept after dept, engineer after technical expert, that I think they are a bunch of liars. Or just don't care. Or just so utterly useless.

 

2) It will barely fit, meaning ALL of this one & only small'ish storage space, in my entire house (which currently I'm able to make use of half of) is made fully redundant. 
 

Zoot

[joe90]

24 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

It's relatively huge size (not for you with your garage probably no)

Actually I have no room for a buffer in my little cottage but no one is offering me a free heating system, if they did it’s a simple choice, find room or pay for something else.

[joe90]

3 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

1) I have zero trust this tank will be silent.

Right, you have been told by me and others here that a tank of water makes no noise.

 

I am no longer interested in this thread.

Edited August 31, 2023 by joe90

[TonyT]

54 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Tony.

 
I have asked for advice on a huge tank. Nothing  else. They have stalwartly said is to be fitted. No choice they say. I am asking -----only------ about anything anyone can think of of to either go with their insistence this is placed in my house/ accommodate this huge tank, or,  any idea I could conceivably argue for a smaller one or none at all.

 

But you ------insist-------- on an entirely different agenda about calculations. Sorry, this is getting infuriating & you are adding to my stress.

 

Zoot.

 

 

He

The heat loss calculation tells you the heat required to heat the house.

 

it tells you the heat required to heat each room.

 

this lets you pick a radiator that will have an appropriate output for the design temperature for the heat pump

 

the radiator you pick will then let you know the volume of water in the radiator, pipework etc to help you determine the volume of the buffer tank, along with the size of heat pump based on the heat loss calculation……….

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by TonyT

[zoothorn]

@ProDave basically after my awful experience I categorically refuse to have ANY part of it.. in a bedroom.

 

Furthermore, it should be deemed unfit to site ANY part of it within certain house parameters too: a minimum distance from a bed, stated, by Vaillant, in the install manual.

 

I am so damn adamant about this I've demanded it BE considered, to Germany HQ no less.

 

In fact, I think they may have even -updated- their very fitter's install manual WITH my experience & recommendations having been taken into account. No sh!t. Or, lie to me again saying they have of course.