Flooded basement....need reliable pump recommendations and high water alarm

[Thorfun]

hi all. woke up to a nightmare today as the single pump in our sump failed last night and with all the rain and underground water our sump filled, overflowed and found it's way (I believe it was under the sliding door) in to our basement. we were using the basement as a storage area for our household belongings that are waiting for the house to be finished. stuff has been ruined and we can't do much about that now but it has really pushed my need for quality pumps that have a reduced risk of failure that I can use for the sump.

 

I have temporarily replaced the failed pump with a Titan pump from SF just to get back to a normal state but I want to get the proper ones in as soon as I possibly can. Can anyone please recommend a good pump make/model for a sump? I want to create a dual pump system for redundancy.

 

Also, I need to create a high water alarm. eventually that should feed in to our proposed Loxone system but, for now, I want to run something that sits in the sump and runs up a long (4m) cable to the top of some heras fencing we have around the basement courtyard with a light on the end so that as we look out if we see a light on we know that something is up! I'm happy to build my own if someone can give assistance on components to use and wiring diagrams.

 

I know it's all a bit like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted but I really don't want to go through another day like we have done today. it's definitely not been a good day. 😭

 

[JohnMo]

Grundfos Unilift submersible pump?

 

Grundfos seem to make a decent pump.  Not tried myself.

 

 

[ProDave]

Ebara (Italian) are good pumps, we use one in the sewage pumping station at our previous house

 

https://www.tradepumps.com/manufacturers/ebara-pumps/ebara-submersible-pumps

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

https://www.pumpsukltd.com/water-pump-type/submersible-water-pumps.html

[Nickfromwales]

https://www.anchorpumps.com

[Thorfun]

9 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

https://www.pumpsukltd.com/water-pump-type/submersible-water-pumps.html

Ironically, in the summer when we were having the drought and my sump was pretty dry I started researching pumps with the thought to get them installed while it was dry. I looked at this site and was tempted by the Ebara pumps that @ProDave recommended. this one in fact.

 

https://www.pumpsukltd.com/ebara-best-one-m-s-tube-float.html

 

but never got around to pulling the trigger on the purchase. something I am seriously regretting right now!

[Pocster]

Right ! This was always my fear !

 

I have 2 sumps with high water alarm for grey / sewage water . Hi water alarm is audible but also linked to my HA .

I also have 2 on Zoellar pumps for rainwater . I tested lots of pumps ! They all failed for various reasons .

 

Zoellar are easily the best . Not cheap .

 

Flooding is the thing that cannot happen. .

 

I bought from 

https://www.sumpsandpumpsdirect.co.uk

 

Don’t cut corners on this - bolts ‘n’ braces and then some .

 

My configuration would require 4 pumps to fail before any flooding would occur .

[Jilly]

OMG nothing to offer but sympathy and commiserations, you poor  things.

[Pocster]

To add

 

My rainwater Zoellar pumps are at 2 different heights in a pit I.e lower than my basement floor .

I have a HA sensor on the higher one - that informs me if it comes on .

As it’s higher it should *never* come on as the lower one should trigger first .

So if it gets activated I know the primary pump has an issue .

 

You need a proper approach to this - with multiple fail safes .

[Radian]

The flood alarm bit has got me thinking. If it were mine I'd cobble together something that used WiFi or ethernet to push me a notification on my phone using the Pushover app. This has a very fast and reliable response - I set up an alert system for my elderly mother to call for help with it. If you wanted to go down that route there are some readymade varieties at the low end of the market (I don't know what would interface with loxone):

 

https://cablematic.com/en/products/smart-wifi-water-leak-detector-compatible-with-google-home-alexa-and-ifttt-AN13600/

 

For a dumb relay output sensor that you could light some LED strip with this and a 12V PSU:

https://cablematic.com/en/products/wiring-detector-water-leak-LB056/#extra_product_info

 

 

[TonyT]

Shelley do a flood sensor for under £30.

 

It will be up in running in 2 minutes.

 

Blue ABS pumps are good quality, we fitted them in Scottish Water.

 

 

[ProDave]

Serious question for basement dwellers.

 

I assume you DO have a generator on site always in the event of a power cut?  and what if you are away during a prolonged power cut?

 

In the case of our septic tank pump, if the pump failed or a prolonged power cut, your lawn just got some fertiliser.

[Pocster]

4 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Serious question for basement dwellers.

 

I assume you DO have a generator on site always in the event of a power cut?  and what if you are away during a prolonged power cut?

 

In the case of our septic tank pump, if the pump failed or a prolonged power cut, your lawn just got some fertiliser.

I have batteries . But if I didn’t would have ups 

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, pocster said:

Right ! This was always my fear !

 

I have 2 sumps with high water alarm for grey / sewage water . Hi water alarm is audible but also linked to my HA .

I also have 2 on Zoellar pumps for rainwater . I tested lots of pumps ! They all failed for various reasons .

 

Zoellar are easily the best . Not cheap .

 

Flooding is the thing that cannot happen. .

 

I bought from 

https://www.sumpsandpumpsdirect.co.uk

 

Don’t cut corners on this - bolts ‘n’ braces and then some .

 

My configuration would require 4 pumps to fail before any flooding would occur .

 

1 hour ago, pocster said:

To add

 

My rainwater Zoellar pumps are at 2 different heights in a pit I.e lower than my basement floor .

I have a HA sensor on the higher one - that informs me if it comes on .

As it’s higher it should *never* come on as the lower one should trigger first .

So if it gets activated I know the primary pump has an issue .

 

You need a proper approach to this - with multiple fail safes .

thanks for this. I've been thinking about my double pump setup and whether I have 2 pumps at the same level so they 'share' the load or if I have them at different heights for a redundant solution?

 

I think we were simply really unlucky on this one. an old cheap pump combined with many deluges of rain and no safety precautions in place. 

 

but, in saying that, I might opt for a double pump at the same level AND one at a higher level (our sump is about 2m deep so can accommodate this I think). then we'll need to have 3 pumps fail and be a LONG way from home for it to be an issue ever again.

 

ps. will check out the Zoellar pumps. thanks for the tip.

[Thorfun]

27 minutes ago, TonyT said:

Shelley do a flood sensor for under £30.

 

It will be up in running in 2 minutes.

 

Blue ABS pumps are good quality, we fitted them in Scottish Water.

 

 

thank you. will definitely check that out.

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, Radian said:

The flood alarm bit has got me thinking. If it were mine I'd cobble together something that used WiFi or ethernet to push me a notification on my phone using the Pushover app. This has a very fast and reliable response - I set up an alert system for my elderly mother to call for help with it. If you wanted to go down that route there are some readymade varieties at the low end of the market (I don't know what would interface with loxone):

 

https://cablematic.com/en/products/smart-wifi-water-leak-detector-compatible-with-google-home-alexa-and-ifttt-AN13600/

 

For a dumb relay output sensor that you could light some LED strip with this and a 12V PSU:

https://cablematic.com/en/products/wiring-detector-water-leak-LB056/#extra_product_info

 

 

thanks for this. I'll check it out. I've no doubt that a one-wire from the sump back to Loxone will allow me to alert/text/blare a warning siren out over the home speakers if water hits a certain level. 

 

I kind of wanted something short term until I can get the home automation working.

[Thorfun]

9 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Serious question for basement dwellers.

 

I assume you DO have a generator on site always in the event of a power cut?  and what if you are away during a prolonged power cut?

 

In the case of our septic tank pump, if the pump failed or a prolonged power cut, your lawn just got some fertiliser.

I have battery backup for the whole house. Am also now thinking of a dedicated UPS just for the sump pumps!

 

for prolonged power cut I would have to look at hiring a generator I guess. or just stand next to the sump with a bucket and start bailing.

 

[Thorfun]

36 minutes ago, TonyT said:

Shelley do a flood sensor for under £30.

 

It will be up in running in 2 minutes.

 

Blue ABS pumps are good quality, we fitted them in Scottish Water.

 

 

https://shellystore.co.uk/product/shelly-flood/

 

this looks perfect! thank you so much. 18 month battery life. hopefully we'll be finished the house by then.

[Pocster]

2 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

hopefully we'll be finished the house by then.

That’s what I said - 7 yrs ago 🤣

[Nickfromwales]

10 hours ago, Thorfun said:

I have battery backup for the whole house. Am also now thinking of a dedicated UPS just for the sump pumps!

 

for prolonged power cut I would have to look at hiring a generator I guess. or just stand next to the sump with a bucket and start bailing.

 

The problem will be the significant start-up current required for a pump of this type. That’s why 230v breakers got pumps have to be C rated, so they don’t trip out on start-up. 
An UPS will need to be specified for the load, so beware of that when considering / ordering. 
It may be a good idea to have a much smaller auxiliary pump set aside for this, which can just run constantly for any such “doomsday” events.

[Mr Punter]

What a pain.  Unless you have suffered a large loss you may be better off not telling the insurers.  I once had a basement flood with a surcharging sewer in a property we were converting so I came back from holiday to be greeted with about 6" sludge to clear up as none of the contractors would do it.

 

It was, of course, the plumbers fault as they had left a new pipe connection to the sewer with an open end.  Had they bunged it all would have been fine.

[ProDave]

4 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

It was, of course, the plumbers fault as they had left a new pipe connection to the sewer with an open end.  Had they bunged it all would have been fine.

But when completed next time it will just spill out of the downstairs WC or if you have a downstairs shower that will be the first to over top.

 

I have known this happen.  Not pretty.

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, Mr Punter said:

What a pain.  Unless you have suffered a large loss you may be better off not telling the insurers.  I once had a basement flood with a surcharging sewer in a property we were converting so I came back from holiday to be greeted with about 6" sludge to clear up as none of the contractors would do it.

 

It was, of course, the plumbers fault as they had left a new pipe connection to the sewer with an open end.  Had they bunged it all would have been fine.

personal belongings we're going through them all to catalogue all the losses and can then make a decision. 

 

the biggest loss is the materials and tools that I stored 'safely' in the basement to keep them out of the way! all my Loxone equipment, AC units, power tools, electric cable, Quooker, UVC control unit, RWH control unit and lots more were down there and all got wet. I know it'll dry but I'm concerned about potential corrosion of circuit boards etc for this stuff. 

 

anyone know if water damaged electrical/electronic components/units can be used once dried or if they need to be thrown out and replaced?

[Pocster]

1 minute ago, Thorfun said:

anyone know if water damaged electrical/electronic components/units can be used once dried or if they need to be thrown out and replaced?

Leave to dry throughly . I’ve seen phone / laptops dropped in toilets or covered in soup recover .

Ultimately though some stuff will be written off 😞

[saveasteading]

Normal practice in commercial projrcts is to have a pair of identical pumps at the same level. Each is sized to cope with predicted quantities alone, and due to some clever control box they operate time about. This also provides for a backup.

To prolong their lives the sump should be substantial and is allowed to fill a bit before one kicks in. A secondary float is higher and turns on the second pump if the first is not coping.

There are also warning lights for operation and showing a fault.

This kit is not cheap, so it depends on your perception of risk and value.

I would contact a local pump specialist. It is surprising that this is a sustainable business. They tend to be small businesses with multiple suppliers, and lots of advice. A phone call first.

Edited November 18, 2022 by saveasteading