Nickfromwales Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Ah, yes. I forgot about the chamber of poop. Just make sure the end of the pipe is above water level in the gulley, but BELOW the grate, as hair blocks that in days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 28, 2017 Author Share Posted August 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said: Ah, yes. I forgot about the chamber of poop. Just make sure the end of the pipe is above water level in the gulley, but BELOW the grate, as hair blocks that in days. Below the grate...is rats then crawling in a concern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 2 hours ago, Onoff said: Below the grate...is rats then crawling in a concern? No more than if it were a boss on the stack ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted August 28, 2017 Author Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) What drunken fuckwit mark out the drain centreline from slab edge 714mm instead of 704mm? Hmm, I wonder??? I'll just adjust it...Oh wait, I cant! Also cants back a bit but I'll get away with it. That poxy blue foam! I'm sticking to low expansion in future! EDIT: In the cold, (sober) light of day I realise my 704/714mm issue isn't a problem and that I'd accounted for it already. The dimn to the left of this is critical for the tiles and that's fine. I'll get working on the shower tray former tonight hopefully (after making my mower part). Edited August 29, 2017 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) Starting the thin angle iron former: I'll use two strips down the edges of the slab to make up the level (edges) before the falls. The angles will get a load of holes Starrett drilled in them to better fix into the "concrete" when laid. Can't decide whether to pop rivet, self tap or MIG. Not so sure about welding with the bath in there though! Edited September 7, 2017 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted September 7, 2017 Author Share Posted September 7, 2017 Something like this. Steel has some surface rust but not too bad. Thinking to just wire brush / flap disc it and chuck it in the concrete without any paint or rust treatment etc. After all the mesh is a tad rusty. The whole area will be tanked anyway. One slight worry is concrete "slump" that might leave the angle iron edges slightly proud: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 (edited) Toying with a "resinous" mix for this cast in situ wet room corner I was toying with a 3:2:1 sand/10mm pea shingle/cement mix with added fibres and SBR. I've now found this Word document on the web. Mix Design No4 looks a possible, maybe with added fibres? Whatever needs to be strong and tough to cope with walking on long term whilst I finish the walls, shower plumbing etc. "P.R. EPOXY - SBR POLYMER SYSTEM TECHNICAL DATA SHEET USES. P.R. Epoxy - SBR Polymer System is used for screeds, floor repairs, waterproof renders, waterproof fine concretes and bonding. DESCRIPTION P.R. Epoxy - SBR Polymer System has been formulated to enhance the physical and chemical properties of cement mortars and concretes. It is compatible with most forms of cement, sands and aggregates. Together with the cement, it forms a powerful adhesive to bond the aggregates together, producing a tougher, waterproof and more impact and abrasion resistant floor, repair mix, render or bonding primer. PROPERTIES The properties of the cured mix will vary depending on the type of cement, sand and aggregates used. COMPRESSION AGE. N/mm² 1 day 14 – 18 28 days 40 – 50 (Strength is dependent on mix design) PREPARATION Surfaces to which P.R. Epoxy - SBR Polymer System mixes are to be applied must be clean, strong and free from oil, grease and with a rough profile. Best preparation is with a scabbler or power washer. If metal surfaces area to be covered they must be rust free and wire brushed or grit blasted. Cement based substrates must be damped with clean water and excess water removed. A primer coat of 1:1 P.R. Epoxy - SBR Polymer System/cement is brush applied to the prepared surface. Refer to relevant standards and codes of practice. MIXING & APPLICATION Hand mix or use a forced action mixer. The components of the selected mix are measured by weight or volume and dry mixed. The P.R. Epoxy - SBR Polymer System and water is added to give the desired consistency. In an efficient mechanical mixer, mixing should continue for 2-3 minutes. When hand mixing, mix the cement, aggregate and sand dry then add sufficient of the P.R. Epoxy - SBR Polymer System/water until a homogeneous consistency is achieved. The mixed mortar is applied to the prepared and primed surface whilst the primer is still wet/tacky, using conventional screeding, rendering and concreting techniques. Apply as required on to wet or tacky primer, compact well and finish. If the primer dries, crosshatch scratch and reapply. If necessary apply mortar in multiple layers to achieve total thickness, priming between layers with P.R. Epoxy - SBR Polymer System :cement primer. STORAGE P.R. Epoxy - SBR Polymer System must be stored unopened in dry warehouse conditions between +5°C and 25°C and out of direct heat and sunlight. In these conditions P.R. Epoxy - SBR Polymer System should have a shelf life of approximately 12 months. PACKAGING P.R. Epoxy - SBR Polymer System is available in 5, 25 and 240.0litre containers. HEALTH & SAFETY There are no emissions of noxious or offensive fumes, P.R. Epoxy - SBR Polymer System is alkaline when mixed with cement and sand; do not allow prolonged contact with skin. Health & Safety information is available. OTHER INFORMATION Mix Design’s 1. Floor Screeding and Screed Repair (min. 6mm) by weight by volume 50kg cement 1 pbv 150kg medium sand 2.5 pbv 10 litres SBR (1:1 SBR:water 9 litres water* (add to consistency Yield approx 0.1m³ 2. Heavy duty floor toppings (min. 12mm) by weight by volume 50kg cement 1 pbv 75kg medium sand 1.25 pbv 75kg 6-3mm grano chips 1.25 pbv 10 litres SBR (1:1 SBR:water 9 litres water* (add to consistency Yield approx 0.11m³ 3. Waterproof Renders (min.6mm) by weight by volume 50kg cement 1 pbv 125kg medium sand 2 pbv 10 litres SBR (1:1 SBR:water 9 litres water* (add to consistency Yield approx 0.1m³ 4. Water Resistant Concrete (min.25mm) by weight by volume 50kg cement 1 pbv cement 100kg medium sand 1.5 pbv 100kg 10-5mm pea shingle 1.5 pbv 5 litres SBR (1:3 SBR:water 13 litres water* (add to consistency Yield approx 0.14m³ 5. Bonding Screeds, Plaster, New Concrete to Old by weight by volume 1kg cement 1 pbv cement 1 litre SBR 1 pbv SBR Yield approx 3-4m² per litre 6. Floating Screeds (min. 38mm) by weight by volume 50kg cement 1 pbv 150kg medium sand 2.5 pbv 4.5litres SBR (1:3 SBR:water 13.5 litres water* (add to consistency Yield approx 0.1m³ • * = add to working consistency. • All sands must be medium grade sharp. • Aggregates must be clean, well graded and not “to dust”. All P.R. Epoxy Systems products’ are manufactured to a high standard of quality. Whilst we aim to ensure that any advice, information or recommendations given are reliable and correct, the Company cannot accept any liability directly or indirectly arising from the use of its products, as we have no direct or continuous control over where or how its products are applied. No undertaking can be given against infringement of any patented processes." Edited September 8, 2017 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudda Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Not sure what the steel angles are for. Are they to help you create the falls? Anyway they will most likely form the role of crack inducers as they'll have so little cover. The no.4 mix looks good as you'll need it strong. Whats the thinnest part of pour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Dudda said: Not sure what the steel angles are for. Are they to help you create the falls? Anyway they will most likely form the role of crack inducers as they'll have so little cover. The no.4 mix looks good as you'll need it strong. Whats the thinnest part of pour? Yep, for the fall lines. Tbh I'll drill the hell out of them so they'll look almost castellated. The angle is nom 40x40x1 so was thinking 20/25mm holes. The mix should "bond" through these holes so hopefully no cracks. Thickness goes from nom 100mm on the two existing edges down to the drain. Not sure on the thickness there without some more measuring but 60-70mm maybe? Floor build up curves up a little there. Out of that thickness comes the hollow "pots" formed by the Polypipe trays. You've got me half worried about the steel acting as crack inducers! Edited September 8, 2017 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 On 28/08/2017 at 13:52, Nickfromwales said: Not too steep imo. Is it going into a gulley or a boss on the stack ? We're you looking at the old white pipe or far black one that sticks out the wall low down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Black. Are those angle irons mild steel? Id not be burying mild in a wetroom slab . Tbh I'd not be burying metal in there at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 +1 to what @Nickfromwales said - I'd use the angle to create the first "wedge" of concrete then remove and use the two edges as the former Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Black. Are those angle irons mild steel? Id not be burying mild in a wetroom slab . Tbh I'd not be burying metal in there at all. Yep, mild steel. I'd though about this and can''t see how it's really any different from the A142 mesh in there. OK that's completely under the concrete and thus encapsulated. Thinking the saving grace is that'll it all be tanked over. I've got to make up the edges level by 36mm one edge and 46mm the other before the falls start. Was going to drill into the slab edge and resin in some M6 studs to support those lengths. I could cast it in sections but how do I ensure the concrete doesn't stick to the steel? Surely any release agent would impeded the next lot of concrete sticking to the first? And surely a one hit. homogeneous pour is better? Pretty sure concrete over steel has an initial protective effect as the medium is alkaline. It's only years later once CO2 seeps in that the medium becomes acidic. This is what befell the art deco places and blocks of flats. Still a no-no you think? EDIT: I'm getting a price out of interest for 4 bits of st/st angle folded from sheet to 40x40x1 Edited September 8, 2017 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudda Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Get rid of all the steel angles in the concrete (both mild and stainless). Even if you make Swiss cheese out of it it's still a weak point and will crack or it will expand at different rates to the concrete due to the underfloor heating or loads of instant hot water and crack that way. Steel mesh, beams, etc need 50mm min cover. You won't get that in 70mm depth. You want one piece of concrete poured in one go and the fibres are enough to reinforce it. Its not a huge area. Make an inverted form guide you can rest on top as your creating the falls if you want them mm perfect. You can make that out of the steel angles you have if you want. I think this is extreme but you like things mm perfect and creating additional work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Yup. No-no. Mild buried in concrete has to be 50mm or more under the surface to stop any moisture rusting the steel. If you have a slight failure the slab will absorb and dissipate it but not if it can get to the steel. Lay a stainless chicken wire at the bottom so when you lay the sections they're still bridged and the sections will act as one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Agree with @Dudda Id form the two sides meeting in the middle like a V, and then fill the valley to create the centre section. Much stronger and less chance of cracking than 3 sections. I'd still deffo go with the stainless 'chicken wire' / similar and fibres to deal with heat / cool cycles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 9 minutes ago, Dudda said: and creating additional work. Ouch , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 16 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Yup. No-no. Mild buried in concrete has to be 50mm or more under the surface to stop any moisture rusting the steel. If you have a slight failure the slab will absorb and dissipate it but not if it can get to the steel. Lay a stainless chicken wire at the bottom so when you lay the sections they're still bridged and the sections will act as one. But it's "waterproof concrete" surely, how can moisture get thru? That SBR laden Design Mix 4 is a bit out of the ordinary.....isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassanclan Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Can the title of this thread be changed to "how to fit a bathroom and make everything more difficult than it needs to be" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC45 Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 It stated moisture resistant...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 22 minutes ago, bassanclan said: Can the title of this thread be changed to "how to fit a bathroom and make everything more difficult than it needs to be" Double ouch ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Leave the sbr out and just go to a strong, dry, fibre screed mix that you can form into the shape needed. Make it all finished level -5mm and relax a bit. The difference gets made up with tile abrasive and that gives you wiggle room. . Forget the SS former it's just way ott imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 57 minutes ago, bassanclan said: Can the title of this thread be changed to "how to fit a bathroom and make everything more difficult than it needs to be" I'll raise you "Come on a journey with me and we'll go down all the side roads" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 Where to get a 1400x1400 bit of st/st chicken wire??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Construction Channel Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 https://www.meshdirect.co.uk/stainless-steel-netting.html im sure galvanised will be fine .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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