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Bath Surround / Boxing In, and concealed pipework


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1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said:

Ah, yes. I forgot about the chamber of poop. 

Just make sure the end of the pipe is above water level in the gulley, but BELOW the grate, as hair blocks that in days.  

 

Below the grate...is rats then crawling in a concern?

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What drunken fuckwit mark out the drain centreline from slab edge  714mm instead of 704mm? Hmm, I wonder??? :)

 

fuckwit.JPG.4721c2fe21f8831ba6eba116ccfc7405.JPG

 

I'll just adjust it...Oh wait, I cant!

 

SAM_5810

 

Also cants back a bit but I'll get away with it. That poxy blue foam! I'm sticking to low expansion in future!

 

SAM_5809

 

EDIT: In the cold, (sober) light of day I realise my 704/714mm issue isn't a problem and that I'd accounted for it already. The dimn to the left of this is critical for the tiles and that's fine. 

 

I'll get working on the shower tray former tonight hopefully (after making my mower part). 

Edited by Onoff
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  • 2 weeks later...

Starting the thin angle iron former:

 

20170906_202134

 

I'll use two strips down the edges of the slab to make up the level (edges) before the falls. 

 

20170906_202301

 

The angles will get a load of holes Starrett drilled in them to better fix into the "concrete" when laid.

 

Can't decide whether to pop rivet, self tap or MIG. Not so sure about welding with the bath in there though! 

 

 

Edited by Onoff
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Something like this. Steel has some surface rust but not too bad. Thinking to just wire brush / flap disc it and chuck it in the concrete without any paint or rust treatment etc. After all the mesh is a tad rusty. The whole area will be tanked anyway. One slight worry is concrete "slump" that might leave the angle iron edges slightly proud:

 

SAM_5815

 

SAM_5816

 

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Toying with a "resinous" mix for this cast in situ wet room corner I was toying with a 3:2:1 sand/10mm pea shingle/cement mix with added fibres and SBR. I've now found this Word document on the web. Mix Design No4 looks a possible, maybe with added fibres?

 

Whatever needs to be strong and tough to cope with walking on long term whilst I finish the walls, shower plumbing etc.

 

"P.R. EPOXY - SBR POLYMER SYSTEM

 

TECHNICAL DATA SHEET

 

USES.

P.R. Epoxy - SBR Polymer System is used for screeds, floor repairs, waterproof renders, waterproof fine concretes and bonding.

 

DESCRIPTION

P.R. Epoxy - SBR Polymer System has been formulated to enhance the physical and chemical properties of cement mortars and concretes.  It is compatible with most forms of cement, sands and aggregates.  Together with the cement, it forms a powerful adhesive to bond the aggregates together, producing a tougher, waterproof and more impact and abrasion resistant floor, repair mix, render or bonding primer.

 

PROPERTIES

The properties of the cured mix will vary depending on the type of cement, sand and aggregates used.

 

COMPRESSION

AGE.            N/mm²
1 day            14 – 18
28 days        40 – 50
(Strength is dependent on mix design)


PREPARATION

Surfaces to which P.R. Epoxy - SBR Polymer System mixes are to be applied must be clean, strong and free from oil, grease and with a rough profile.  Best preparation is with a scabbler or power washer.  If metal surfaces area to be covered they must be rust free and wire brushed or grit blasted.  Cement based substrates must be damped with clean water and excess water removed.  A primer coat of 1:1 P.R. Epoxy - SBR Polymer System/cement is brush applied to the prepared surface.  Refer to relevant standards and codes of practice.

 

MIXING & APPLICATION

Hand mix or use a forced action mixer.  The components of the selected mix are measured by weight or volume and dry mixed.  The P.R. Epoxy - SBR Polymer System and water is added to give the desired consistency.  In an efficient mechanical mixer, mixing should continue for 2-3 minutes.  When hand mixing, mix the cement, aggregate and sand dry then add sufficient of the P.R. Epoxy - SBR Polymer System/water until a homogeneous consistency is achieved.

The mixed mortar is applied to the prepared and primed surface whilst the primer is still wet/tacky, using conventional screeding, rendering and concreting techniques.  Apply as required on to wet or tacky primer, compact well and finish.  If the primer dries, crosshatch scratch and reapply.  If necessary apply mortar in multiple layers to achieve total thickness, priming between layers with P.R. Epoxy - SBR Polymer System :cement primer.

 

STORAGE

P.R. Epoxy - SBR Polymer System must be stored unopened in dry warehouse conditions between +5°C and 25°C and out of direct heat and sunlight.  In these conditions P.R. Epoxy - SBR Polymer System should have a shelf life of approximately 12 months.

 

PACKAGING

P.R. Epoxy - SBR Polymer System is available in 5, 25 and 240.0litre containers.

 

HEALTH & SAFETY

There are no emissions of noxious or offensive fumes, P.R. Epoxy - SBR Polymer System is alkaline when mixed with cement and sand; do not allow prolonged contact with skin.  Health & Safety information is available.


OTHER INFORMATION  

Mix Design’s

 

1.    Floor Screeding and Screed Repair (min. 6mm) 
by weight            by volume
50kg cement            1 pbv
150kg medium sand        2.5 pbv
10 litres SBR            (1:1 SBR:water 
9 litres water*        (add to consistency
Yield approx 0.1m³


2.    Heavy duty floor toppings (min. 12mm)
by weight            by volume
50kg cement            1 pbv
75kg medium sand        1.25 pbv
75kg 6-3mm grano chips    1.25 pbv
10 litres SBR            (1:1 SBR:water
9 litres water*        (add to consistency
Yield approx 0.11m³

 

3.    Waterproof Renders (min.6mm)
by weight            by volume
50kg  cement            1 pbv
125kg medium sand        2 pbv
10 litres  SBR            (1:1 SBR:water
9 litres water*        (add to consistency
Yield approx 0.1m³

 

4.    Water Resistant Concrete (min.25mm)
by weight            by volume
50kg cement            1 pbv cement
100kg medium sand        1.5 pbv
100kg 10-5mm pea shingle    1.5 pbv
5 litres SBR            (1:3 SBR:water
13 litres water*        (add to consistency
Yield approx 0.14m³

 

5.    Bonding Screeds, Plaster, New Concrete to Old
by weight            by volume
1kg cement            1 pbv cement
1 litre SBR            1 pbv SBR
Yield approx 3-4m² per litre


6.    Floating Screeds (min. 38mm)
by weight            by volume
     50kg cement            1 pbv
    150kg medium sand        2.5 pbv
    4.5litres SBR            (1:3 SBR:water
    13.5 litres water*        (add to consistency
    Yield approx 0.1m³
                                

•    * = add to working consistency.
•    All sands must be medium grade sharp.
•    Aggregates must be clean, well graded and not “to dust”.

All P.R. Epoxy Systems products’ are manufactured to a high standard of quality.  Whilst we aim to ensure that any advice, information or recommendations given are reliable and correct, the Company cannot accept any liability directly or indirectly arising from the use of its products, as we have no direct or continuous control over where or how its products are applied.  No undertaking can be given against infringement of any patented processes."
 

Edited by Onoff
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Not sure what the steel angles are for. Are they to help you create the falls? Anyway they will most likely form the role of crack inducers as they'll have so little cover. The no.4 mix looks good as you'll need it strong. Whats the thinnest part of pour?

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41 minutes ago, Dudda said:

Not sure what the steel angles are for. Are they to help you create the falls? Anyway they will most likely form the role of crack inducers as they'll have so little cover. The no.4 mix looks good as you'll need it strong. Whats the thinnest part of pour?

 

Yep, for the fall lines. Tbh I'll drill the hell out of them so they'll look almost castellated.  The angle is nom 40x40x1 so was thinking 20/25mm holes. The mix should "bond" through these holes so hopefully no cracks.

 

Thickness goes from nom 100mm on the two existing edges down to the drain. Not sure on the thickness there without some more measuring but 60-70mm maybe? Floor build up curves up a little there. Out of that thickness comes the hollow "pots" formed by the Polypipe trays. You've got me half worried about the steel acting as crack inducers!

Edited by Onoff
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On 28/08/2017 at 13:52, Nickfromwales said:

Not too steep imo. Is it going into a gulley or a boss on the stack ? 

 

We're you looking at the old white pipe or far black one that sticks out the wall low down?

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19 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Black. ;)

Are those angle irons mild steel?

Id not be burying mild in a wetroom slab :/. Tbh I'd not be burying metal in there at all.  

 

Yep, mild steel. I'd though about this and can''t see how it's really any different from the A142 mesh in there. OK that's completely under the concrete and thus encapsulated. Thinking the saving grace is that'll it all be tanked over.

 

I've got to make up the edges level by 36mm one edge and 46mm the other before the falls start. Was going to drill into the slab edge and resin in some M6 studs to support those lengths.

 

I could cast it in sections but how do I ensure the concrete doesn't stick to the steel? Surely any release agent would impeded the next lot of concrete sticking to the first? And surely a one hit. homogeneous pour is better?

 

Pretty sure concrete over steel has an initial protective effect as the medium is alkaline. It's only years later once CO2 seeps in that the medium becomes acidic. This is what befell the art deco places and blocks of flats.

 

Still a no-no you think?

 

EDIT: I'm getting a price out of interest for 4 bits of st/st angle folded from sheet to 40x40x1

Edited by Onoff
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Get rid of all the steel angles in the concrete (both mild and stainless). Even if you make Swiss cheese out of it it's still a weak point and will crack or it will expand at different rates to the concrete due to the underfloor heating or loads of instant hot water and crack that way. Steel mesh, beams, etc need 50mm min cover. You won't get that in 70mm depth.

 

You want one piece of concrete poured in one go and the fibres are enough to reinforce it. Its not a huge area. Make an inverted form guide you can rest on top as your creating the falls if you want them mm perfect. You can make that out of the steel angles you have if you want. I think this is extreme but you like things mm perfect and creating additional work. 

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Yup. No-no. Mild buried in concrete has to be 50mm or more under the surface to stop any moisture rusting the steel. If you have a slight failure the slab will absorb and dissipate it but not if it can get to the steel. 

Lay a stainless chicken wire at the bottom so when you lay the sections they're still bridged and the sections will act as one. 

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16 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Yup. No-no. Mild buried in concrete has to be 50mm or more under the surface to stop any moisture rusting the steel. If you have a slight failure the slab will absorb and dissipate it but not if it can get to the steel. 

Lay a stainless chicken wire at the bottom so when you lay the sections they're still bridged and the sections will act as one. 

 

But it's "waterproof concrete" surely, how can moisture get thru? That SBR laden Design Mix 4 is a bit out of the ordinary.....isn't it?

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Leave the sbr out and just go to a strong, dry, fibre screed mix that you can form into the shape needed. Make it all finished level -5mm and relax a bit. The difference gets made up with tile abrasive and that gives you wiggle room. ;)

Forget the SS former it's just way ott imo. 

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57 minutes ago, bassanclan said:

Can the title of this thread be changed to "how to fit a bathroom and make everything more difficult than it needs to be"

 

I'll raise you "Come on a journey with me and we'll go down all the side roads"

 

:)

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