Cladding options (now that Siberian Larch is contraband)

[Kelvin]

We visited Russwood today to look at cladding. Immediately ruled out Accoya. The expense aside, once painted it might as well be plastic. Fine if you want a very sharp perfect look. The biggest issue for me was the examples they had on display were chipped here and there and that would annoy me as it would definitely end up chipped on the building. 
 

That left two main options really. Thermopine  (from Finland) and home grown Scottish Larch. They had a large wall of board on board Scottish Larch that was untreated and had been up for 3 or 4 years. (See pic). It was stunning and exactly the look we want. They can do Thermopine as board on board too although the planks are slightly narrower than the Scottish Larch. The challenge is it means we end up with exactly what I didn’t want when it initially goes up - orange, weathering at different rates around the elevations, staining while it weathers, and potential for the black staining it can suffer from. My preference is the Thermopine because it’s more stable than the Scottish Larch and being a processed wood has better longevity. However, Scottish Larch appeals because it’s grown and milled here in Scotland. 
 

The other alternative is Abodo from Glenalmond in the Patina coating. It is really stunning, will look weathered from the start and will weather consistently. However, it’s more than twice the price of the Thermopine and more than three times the price of the Scottish Larch. I’ve had a quote from Glenalmond for it and it came in at £17,500 ex VAT for 208sqm untreated supply only so quite dear. 
 

Has anyone fitted homegrown Scottish Larch cladding or something similar in terms of quality? 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Kelvin

[JohnMo]

I have Scottish larch, dismissed Russwood on a price.  Got mine from Ali Patterson of Nairn, all trees from local wood, will mill to any shape or size and about a 1/3 the cost.  Good delivery.

[Kelvin]

Looks lovely as does the house!  How is it weathering? 
 

I’m also looking at The Scottish sawmill in Dunfermline who are also cheaper than Russwood. 

[Russell griffiths]

Have a look at Douglas fir. 
a neighbour has just used it and looks very nice. 

[JohnMo]

37 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

Looks lovely as does the house!  How is it weathering? 

It had nearly a year exposed and untreated, was just starting to to have a tinge of grey.  Now treated with ceder oil, as in the photo.

[Thorfun]

Best advice I had when deciding on natural timber cladding (Siberian Larch vs Western Red Cedar for us) was that it all ends up the same silver so get the cheaper wood! 😉

[saveasteading]

21 hours ago, Thorfun said:

Siberian Larch vs Western Red Cedar

No question.  WRC is not good in the UK climate, as it doesn't like dampness.

WRC ends up grey if you are lucky and don't get staining from the fixings.

[SuperJohnG]

I scratched using my siberian larch on walls aesthetically because we went a different route and fitted black cedral which is very nice. But still used siberian larch on soffits and canopy which is lovely, but no help to you. If you like scottish larch go for it....you won't regret it and if you have the right details for ventilation and water it'll all blend eventually and look good. They can all get a wee bit of mould and wee spots due to natural sugars. My siberian larch has only a couple which I was surprised at butnthey go away. 

 

Few pics for reference....

Edited July 22, 2022 by SuperJohnG

[Gone West]

12 hours ago, saveasteading said:

WRC ends up grey if you are lucky and don't get staining from the fixings.

Our Canadian WRC ended up grey and no staining from the fixings as they were stainless steel. We were in East Kent at the time though so low rainfall amounts.

[saveasteading]

6 hours ago, Gone West said:

East Kent at the time though so low rainfall amounts.

Ahh , the dry East Kent coast., except when the salt water lashes off the sea.

You are right though, it isn't as generally damp as many places.

 

6 hours ago, Gone West said:

fixings were stainless steel.

Did they also fade to grey, or too small to notice?

 

A timber merchant showed me a technical document about why WRC was not a great idea in much of the UK. He also showed it to potential purchasers and architects but to little avail. It was good business he said, but there were quite a lot of disappointed customers. South Coast.

[Gone West]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

Ahh , the dry East Kent coast., except when the salt water lashes off the sea.

We were a couple of miles inland.

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

Did they also fade to grey, or too small to notice?

Hidden pins.

[Kelvin]

Got a quote back from Russwood after our visit and follow up email. The quote resembles nothing like what  I asked for and  I couldn’t have been more clear in my email in what i asked for.. And the Thermopine they did quote for was only marginally cheaper than the Glenalmond Abodo quote.  What a waste of time. 
 

 

[bob the builder 2]

I wonder what the view is on open rainscreen v's closed board on a timber frame ?

 

bob 

[Kelvin]

37 minutes ago, bob the builder 2 said:

I wonder what the view is on open rainscreen v's closed board on a timber frame ?

 

bob 

Both nice options. Closed board needs stable timber. The detailing behind rain screen needs to be done correctly otherwise the battens are obvious. There’s a beautiful barn done in horizontal rainscreen for both roof and walls. 

[Simplysimon]

2 hours ago, bob the builder 2 said:

I wonder what the view is on open rainscreen v's closed board on a timber frame ?

 

bob 

quite a bit in this post

 

[joth]

You can also still get Sila grown in the French alps

 

https://www.sivalbp.fr/en/wood-cladding/authentic-en/meleze-de-siberie/

 

We used their new age gris pretreated Sila and it's so good our neighbour has done the same, starting a new vernacular for the street:)

Pretty hard to get hold of now, of course, but he did manage it this year via Vincent's timber 

[Adrian Walker]

Have you considered Bamboo as a cladding option? https://www.moso-bamboo.com/

[Bozza]

Kelvin, to assist you in your decision making I have attached pics of my house  Sept 2020, March 2021 and July 22.  The cladding is untreated Siberian larch, board on board. I think it’s about half way towards “silvering”.

 

my tip would be whatever you do install have a few full spare planks left out in the weather if possible.  In case you need to replace split boards, they’ll match.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Bozza

[Kelvin]

Had another quote from Russwood for Scotlarch in a board on board profile factory treated with the SiOO:X stuff and it’s come in at £9900 ex VAT for 208 sqm. I’ve had some quotes from local sawmills for Scottish Larch and it’s roughly half the price but untreated. Given I want it treated with SiOO:X so would need to buy it separately at approx £2000 by my calcs and paint it on myself which would take quite a while given it’s a three coat process. Therefore, going directly to the sawmill is saving me a couple of thousand approximately. Don’t think it’s worth it really. Would be worth it if I wasn’t bothered about treating it. The Scotlarch is less than half what I originally budgeted for with the Abodo I was very keen on so I’m doing the man maths around that. 😀

[saveasteading]

1 minute ago, Kelvin said:

SiOO:X

Accelerated weathering is surprisingly expensive.

I think we are going with Russwood, but untreated, on the basis that the timber is selected, ie higher quality, and so won't twist or have knots falling out.

 

I don't like the weathered grey look (and would stain it) but am outnumbered, and presumably plain wrong.

 

 

[Kelvin]

It is indeed. Fortunately we both agree in our house on the weathered look. 😁 Russwood have a large wall of board on board that’s weathered (the pic I posted at the start) and that picture doesn’t do it justice. It’s completely uniformly silvered and has a deep silky sheen to it. We both loved it straight away. 
 

We don’t agree on the stone flooring however and after the third trip to yet another another flooring place I’m sick at looking at chuffing stone floors so have given that decision to my wife albeit we have agreed on porcelain rather than stone.  We have decided on the timber flooring for the stairs and first floor though. 😂 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Kelvin

[ThomasD]

If the detailing is right and the logs well selected European (Scottish) Larch is excellent. 
 

Russwood is extremely expensive, for no apparent reason. Any good saw mill selects boards, I don’t see any difference between them and a decent sawmill.

 

I recently bought some machined boards from Fasque Timber https://www.fasque.com/fasque-timber-products

 

The quality was excellent, boards machined to my profile and a fraction of the cost of Russwood.

all add some photos later.

 

[ThomasD]

I’d also recommend these fastenings for screwing the boards in place. They have very good pull out strength, countersink they face of the timber without damaging the wood (preventing moisture staying around the screw head) and are a fraction of the cost of other options sold by expensive saw mills! 
 

5.0 x 60mm Quad Cut Countersunk TX25 A4 316 Stainless


https://swiftfix.co.uk/5-0-x-60mm-Quad-Cut-Countersunk-TX25-Torx-Drive-A4-316-Stainless-Steel-Box-of-200-p57346081

Edited July 31, 2022 by ThomasD

[Modernista]

You'd be welcome to come and see our Abodo cladding on the house if you are in reach of Dundee @Kelvin - we went round in circles on this before deciding.......

[Kelvin]

4 hours ago, ThomasD said:

If the detailing is right and the logs well selected European (Scottish) Larch is excellent. 
 

Russwood is extremely expensive, for no apparent reason. Any good saw mill selects boards, I don’t see any difference between them and a decent sawmill.

 

I recently bought some machined boards from Fasque Timber https://www.fasque.com/fasque-timber-products

 

The quality was excellent, boards machined to my profile and a fraction of the cost of Russwood.

all add some photos later.

 

They are indeed. The two sawmill quotes I’ve got are about 40% cheaper. But that’s untreated and I want it treated so the difference is more like 20% plus I’d need to do the treatment application myself. I don’t mind doing this but would rather focus my time elsewhere. Their fixings and batten system is also quite dear at circa £3000 and I estimate I could save about £1500 there. However, if the budget is looking tight and we need start saving a few thousand here and there across the whole build then it’s an option.