Feel like silly questions but may not be.

[Thorfun]

54 minutes ago, SuperJohnG said:

Well all end up here.

life goals

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

The crux of that is how does the automation know what you want?

 

e.g walk into the bathroom, have a pee, flush and walk out.   Walk into the bathroom, sit on the pot and open your book.   Walk into the bathroom undress and get into the shower.   All 3 very different situations.  show me a sensor that can 100% detect which of those 3 you are doing and operate the lights and fan accordingly?

 

 

well, it can't detect everything of course but humans are creatures of habit so we would 'generally' shower at the same time every day, start work at the same time, start preparing the dinner at the same time etc. so you can configure the automation so that if you enter a room at a particular time of day and the light level is at a certain point then the lights will turn on to a specific scene, e.g. cooking scene etc. obviously it won't get it right every single time which is why you have switches to override the automated settings.

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, joe90 said:

“Sitting is the new smoking”

Those were the days, sitting at your desk, full ashtray, while watching the 'properly dressed' young girls in the typing pool bend over to get stuff from the filing cabinet.

Clean air and a PC is not the same.

@pocster's hard drive is exempt from this, obviously.

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

Not always.  If I need a pee in the night, the very last thing I want is the light coming on full blinding me and disturbing SWMBO.  I operate in the dark in that situation.

so you configure the system so that after a certain time when you enter the bathroom the lights at a low level come on dimmed. no need to pee in the dark!

[jack]

2 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

so you configure the system so that after a certain time when you enter the bathroom the lights at a low level come on dimmed. no need to pee in the dark!

 

Exactly.

 

I think a lot of people don't realise how flexible home automation can be.

 

For example, I have lights in some rooms set so that they behave differently after dusk (the HA system tracks the changing dusk time). If I'm turning the lights in the bedroom on during the day, it's generally because I need a lot of light. At night, the same switch just turns on the bedside table lights, because I almost never need/want downlights on at 10 or 11 pm (but can put them on with about 10 seconds' effort on the phone if needed).

 

Even in the small number of rooms with just downlights, many are set so that the downlights come on at ~60% at night and 90-100% during the day.

 

I personally don't have any lights set to come on automatically as a result of motion within a room. If I did use motion/presence sensors, I'd be more likely to set them so the lights still need to be turned on at the switch, but automatically turn off after some period of inactivity in the room.

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, joe90 said:

I get that, when at a hotel years ago the ensuite had a sensor that triggered a very low glowing light in the bathroom to avoid this very problem (probably to save cleaning the floor  as much 😱). I have the sensor and light and just like @Onoff it’s on my to do list  🤞

 

 

 

Let's face it, it's good you remember to get up! 😂

[MikeSharp01]

41 minutes ago, jack said:

but automatically turn off after some period of inactivity in the room.

This is the challenge for me, inactivity can include just sitting there reading a book, you will need the 'heart beat' sensor @Radian was mentioning to capture that.

[SteamyTea]

8 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Let's face it, it's good you remember to get up

Regular as clockwork, 7 every morning.

Trouble is, don't get up till 7:30.

[jack]

36 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

This is the challenge for me, inactivity can include just sitting there reading a book, you will need the 'heart beat' sensor @Radian was mentioning to capture that.

 

Make the delay an hour or two from the last motion. You shouldn't really be sitting completely stationary for two hours, and a decent presence (not motion) sensor doesn't require you to run around the room to be detected.

 

Another approach is to program the lights to briefly dim a couple of times shortly before turning off. If that happens, you can just wave your arm around to reset the timer.

[Onoff]

7 minutes ago, jack said:

You shouldn't really be sitting completely stationary for two hours

 

Unless you gave congestive heart failure when constipation, amongst other issues is a thing...

[Jilly]

So er, what happens if you lose your phone? 

[Ferdinand]

4 hours ago, ProDave said:

The crux of that is how does the automation know what you want?

 

e.g walk into the bathroom, have a pee, flush and walk out.   Walk into the bathroom, sit on the pot and open your book.   Walk into the bathroom undress and get into the shower.   All 3 very different situations.  show me a sensor that can 100% detect which of those 3 you are doing and operate the lights and fan accordingly?

 

 

 

Landmine?

[Thorfun]

3 minutes ago, Jilly said:

So er, what happens if you lose your phone? 

well, I don't think anyone is suggesting to not have any switches so if you lose your phone you can just use the switch. but in a truly automated house you shouldn't 'need' the switch but it's there in case you do.

[joe90]

2 hours ago, Jilly said:

So er, what happens if you lose your phone? 

Just like loosing the TV remote!

Edited June 30, 2022 by joe90

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, joe90 said:

Just like loosing the TRV remote!

 

Thought you drove an MG?

[joe90]

15 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Thought you drove an MG?

Bloody spellcheck 

[ProDave]

I once worked in an office where the lighting was all controlled by motion sensors.  Every now and then the lights would go out, and someone had to get out of their chair and walk around a bit to re trigger the sensor.

[jack]

4 hours ago, Jilly said:

So er, what happens if you lose your phone? 

 

Any home automation system that requires you to get your phone out more than once a week is a poorly designed and/or implemented home automation system imo.

 

I rarely use my phone to control anything. All lights are on physical switches (but some of the switches do different things depending on time of day). Blinds are mostly automated based on time of day (except in the bedrooms), but also have switches for manual control. 

 

55 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I once worked in an office where the lighting was all controlled by motion sensors.  Every now and then the lights would go out, and someone had to get out of their chair and walk around a bit to re trigger the sensor.

 

I've had similar, but generally waving your arms around was enough. It's worse in a large office unless you're willing to install lots of presence sensors.

 

I mainly haven't bothered within presence sensing due to cost. Decent ones cost tens of quid, and the insane payback time means it makes no sense for me to install them.

[Radian]

1 hour ago, jack said:

I mainly haven't bothered within presence sensing due to cost. Decent ones cost tens of quid, and the insane payback time means it makes no sense for me to install them.

 

That's kind of true unfortunately. This is another one of those examples of roll-your-own-and-save-big-time: if it's just hacking stuff together that you have lying around, then payback can be instant - like my under kitchen-cabinet light dimmer which is now saving me a few hundred kWh per year.

[Pocster]

7 hours ago, Thorfun said:

well, I don't think anyone is suggesting to not have any switches so if you lose your phone you can just use the switch. but in a truly automated house you shouldn't 'need' the switch but it's there in case you do.

Automation in my opinion should be something that largely ‘ just happens ‘ . Lights come on / blinds open etc .

 

[Pocster]

9 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

This is the challenge for me, inactivity can include just sitting there reading a book, you will need the 'heart beat' sensor @Radian was mentioning to capture that.

Yes - for a motion sensor ‘ reading a book ‘ might be an issue . But if you had cctv ; you could set the sensitivity much more finely to trigger ( keep on ) any lighting . Had the same issue with my external front light . So through the software ( blue iris ) map the ‘ trigger ‘ zones - with sensitivity set appropriately to trigger Java script url to home automation to set z wave switch to turn light on . 

Edited June 30, 2022 by pocster

[Onoff]

8 minutes ago, pocster said:

Yes - for a motion sensor ‘ reading a book ‘ might be an issue . But if you had cctv ; you could set the sensitivity much more finely to trigger ( keep on ) any lighting . Had the same issue with my external front light . So through the software ( blue iris ) map the ‘ trigger ‘ zones - with sensitivity set appropriately to trigger Java script url to home automation to set z wave switch to turn light on . 

 

Sorcery!

[Pocster]

1 minute ago, Onoff said:

 

Sorcery!

Convoluted madness ! But it works !  

[joth]

51 minutes ago, Radian said:

 

That's kind of true unfortunately. This is another one of those examples of roll-your-own-and-save-big-time: if it's just hacking stuff together that you have lying around, then payback can be instant - like my under kitchen-cabinet light dimmer which is now saving me a few hundred kWh per year.

I'd never even considered presence detectors in terms of payback time. I got them to do automation, including automated lights coming on (including low level markers at night), manage audio, set the blinds to reduce glare on the computer screen when I'm in the office, and such like. The fact it can turn off lights and appliances and save money is a bonus.

Then, half the motion sensors were there anyway (security system) and the higher sensitivity ones were only £7 each (plus a Loxone DI extension which was £10 per channel) so a completely fine outlay in my book. But heck each to their own, I'm definitely not here to push my lifestyle choices on others. But on that point I'm generally very active and not getting obese, and turning off a light switch would not constitute a meaningful workout for me if I was.

 

[Onoff]

23 minutes ago, pocster said:

Convoluted madness ! But it works !  

 

I was, 100%, genuinely about to commit a few grand to PV but didn't know where to start.