We should have installed air conditioning… now what?

[Nickfromwales]

27 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

but I reckon 26C is not too hot indoors, and aircon is un-necessary.

At 28oC I’d be looking to kill someone. At 25oC I’d be looking for A/C. 
 

You don’t know an old lady I once fitted a new boiler for, do you?  

 

[saveasteading]

Just now, Nickfromwales said:

At 25oC I’d be looking for A/C. 

I am impressed by the Spanish rules for public buildings, recently also a French rule. No aircon unless temp above 26C. No heating above 18C.

These are the temps published  in the supermarket anyway.

This was introduced during the last recession, along with reduced speed limits. The speeds have reverted but the temperature rule has been accepted.

 

If you were imposing such a  rule to save national / world energy, what temperatures would you suggest?

 

[jack]

32 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Interested in what people think, but I reckon 26C is not too hot indoors, and aircon is un-necessary.

If that feels hot then our bodies don't take long to adapt.  eg Mediterranean residents wear anoraks and jeans until the temperature is 20plus.

 

Warmer temps are fine when I'm outside and there's some air movement (either a breeze, or I'm moving around). But 24+ degrees inside and I'm dripping with sweat, and completely unable to concentrate.

 

I've worked in non-airconditioned offices a couple of times, and I definitely didn't adapt.

 

Thankfully my office (I work from home) is downstairs, where we have underfloor cooling and concrete floors. It's heaven during a heatwave.

[saveasteading]

2 minutes ago, jack said:

I definitely didn't adapt

I wonder how much humidity affects the acceptable temperature.

[jack]

6 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

I wonder how much humidity affects the acceptable temperature.

 

Having lived and worked in Australia (not without aircon, I'll add!), humidity definitely has an impact.

 

But the main thing is that I just subjectively hate the heat. Always have, even on holidays.

[SteamyTea]

I grew up in the Far East, South of France and the West Indies.

I hate the cold.

 

26°C indoors still requires a jumper.

 

Humidity can make you feel subjectively hotter or colder, depends how much you are perspiring.

Being in direct sunlight or no makes a difference as well.

If you need air movement, get a fan.

[Adsibob]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

Interested in what people think, but I reckon 26C is not too hot indoors, and aircon is un-necessary.

If that feels hot then our bodies don't take long to adapt.  eg Mediterranean residents wear anoraks and jeans until the temperature is 20plus.

Northern types think 18 is hot, and might have to take a jumper off.

It is currently 23.5C in my home office. Outside it is 20.7C.  Even when working from home I’m expected to wear formal business wear for video calls etc. and although that doesn’t mean a suit jacket, I do need to be in a shirt and sometimes in a tie (trousers and pants optional). I think hotter than 22C it starts to get a little uncomfortable in those clothes. I agree that I would prefer to not have to install and run AC. Bad for the environment and bad for the human airways and bad for the electricity bills. But if I’m not able to solve this with a purge routine and some blinds or even shutters, I will need to consider air con. 

Edited June 20, 2022 by Adsibob

[saveasteading]

Does anyone disagree, that we shouldn't feel cold in a public or office building in summer, due to the aircon being set to shiver levels?

Is that corporate showing off?

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

If that feels hot then our bodies don't take long to adapt.  eg Mediterranean residents wear anoraks and jeans until the temperature is 20plus.

A neighbours relatives have been visiting this last week.  On the hottest day last week I saw them going for a walk down the road with coats on.  They had just arrived from Dubai.

[crispy_wafer]

 

38 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

It is currently 23.5C in my home office. Outside it is 20.7C.  Even when working from home I’m expected to wear formal business wear for video calls etc. and although that doesn’t mean a suit jacket, I do need to be in a shirt and sometimes in a tie (trousers and pants optional). I think hotter than 22C it starts to get a little uncomfortable in those clothes. I agree that I would prefer to not have to install and run AC. Bad for the environment and bad for the human airways and bad for the electricity bills. But if I’m not able to solve this with a purge routine and some blinds or even shutters, I will need to consider air con. 

Go for it, I've nothing against air con, it's all about comfort at the end of the day, and if it drops the ambient by a couple of degrees and makes you feel more comfortable in your home then money well spent. 

 

[Ralph]

41 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

It is currently 23.5C in my home office. Outside it is 20.7C.  Even when working from home I’m expected to wear formal business wear for video calls etc. and although that doesn’t mean a suit jacket, I do need to be in a shirt and sometimes in a tie (trousers and pants optional).

We have a programmer who is a really big lad, he normally has the camera off but did accidently switch it on during a company meeting while he was sitting naked at his desk. He scrambled to switch it off, there is complete silence until an anonymous voice just says, "nice tits".  Meeting then goes on as if nothing has happened.
 

[SteamyTea]

26 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Does anyone disagree, that we shouldn't feel cold in a public or office building in summer, due to the aircon being set to shiver levels?

Is that corporate showing off?

I agree, or is that disagree.

I had a boss once that liked his office at about 15°C. The production area was at 24°C as it was a temperature dependant curing process. He used to complain about the heating costs. The halving of production would have cost more, and we burned waste timber in the Talbot, that saved in disposal costs.

He was just a nob.

[JohnMo]

One of these?

 

https://www.hygienesuppliesdirect.com/mylek-portable-air-cooler-with-ice-packs

[joth]

4 hours ago, Adsibob said:

My summer bypass is also set to automatic. I had a quick look at the status and it says:

 

Bypass State: OPEN

Inlet temperature: 19.7C

Outlet temperature: 22C

 

Does the fact that the bypass is "open" mean it is bypassing the heat exchanger and working as expected?

 

No idea! What make/model is it, and what does the manual say?

 

For reference here's the app for mine, around midday when it was still coolish outside and now later afternoon it's got too hot for bypass to be useful

 

Bypass= 100% or 0% is fairly clear 

 

 

   

Edited June 20, 2022 by joth

[Adsibob]

30 minutes ago, joth said:

 

No idea! What make/model is it, and what does the manual say?

 

For reference here's the app for mine, around midday when it was still coolish outside and now later afternoon it's got too hot for bypass to be useful

 

Bypass= 100% or 0% is fairly clear 

 

 

   

Thanks @joth I'm pretty sure that my Brink Flair 400's "Open" is equivalent to your Zehnder's "100".

 

[Adsibob]

The plot thickens. In addition to the super expensive external shutters, velux also do an external awning which is slightly less affront-on-your-wallet, though still daylight robbery (pun intended): https://www.velux.co.uk/products/blinds-and-shutters/awning-blinds

[Adsibob]

So through some fairly diligent purging schedules, I’ve managed to get the temperature in most of the loft down overnight to about 17.5C or 18C. Depending on how sunny it is during the day, it rises to about 25C to 26.5C by the late afternoon.

I think an external awning blind or roller shutter on the east facing Velux will help delay the heat rise to much later on in the day. But what is the difference in solar shielding performance between:

 

an external awning blind like this and

 a significantly more expensive external roller shutter like this

 

The roller shutter is complete blackout, whereas I think the awning blind cuts out about 85% of light. Will that equate to the cheaper awning blind being 15% less effective than the roller shutter at reducing solar gain?

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Adsibob

[Claire B]

On 23/06/2022 at 22:53, Adsibob said:

So through some fairly diligent purging schedules, I’ve managed to get the temperature in most of the loft down overnight to about 17.5C or 18C. Depending on how sunny it is during the day, it rises to about 25C to 26.5C by the late afternoon.

I think an external awning blind or roller shutter on the east facing Velux will help delay the heat rise to much later on in the day. But what is the difference in solar shielding performance between:

 

an external awning blind like this and

 a significantly more expensive external roller shutter like this

 

The roller shutter is complete blackout, whereas I think the awning blind cuts out about 85% of light. Will that equate to the cheaper awning blind being 15% less effective than the roller shutter at reducing solar gain?

 

I've been after these Velux external shutters for a while now but I have 19 windows (largest size)! I have internal black out blinds on the bedroom Velux's but they don't keep the heat out, you have to stop it coming in through the window (using the external shutters). I've yet to hear from anyone that has them. It's a big investment and I've had no luck getting any of their 'approved fitters' round to quote.

[saveasteading]

Silver or white internal blinds help significantly: more than I can logically explain. I suspect the main difference is in reflecting a large proportion stright back out as light. Perhaps the local pocket of heat also resists transfer.

[JohnMo]

Black is great at absorbing heat, not sure if you have a black coating out the outside face of the blackout blinds. 

 

We also have white internal blinds and they have a great effect at keeping the sun's heat at bay.  Not as good as external blinds but can certainly keep the room cooler by 3 or 4 degrees when closed.

[rh2205]

Can anyone recommend some external blind companies to approach on here? We have a heat problem but also the daylight impacts on my sleep even with “blackout blinds” so I think this would win on multiple fronts.

[Thorfun]

30 minutes ago, rh2205 said:

Can anyone recommend some external blind companies to approach on here? We have a heat problem but also the daylight impacts on my sleep even with “blackout blinds” so I think this would win on multiple fronts.

where are you in the country?

[saveasteading]

23 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Black is great at absorbing heat

Yes and that is good for blackout , but not what you want in the room to keep it cool. Reflect it back out.

 

External blinds are tricky especially as retrofit. French style shutters?

 

 

[rh2205]

@Thorfunwe are east anglia. Though it sounds like retrofit isn’t straightforward & shutters would look ridiculous against our vertical cedral cladding so maybe this is an idea rather than reality.

[rh2205]

@saveasteadingactually the blackout blinds we have are white on the side facing the outside.. the house still gets very warm when the suns out!