Neighbour Objection - Livelihood at Stake

[BMF]

Neighbour has objected to our plans for retrospective planning permission. We've been operating a 4 room bnb from our home and received a negative comment from adjacent property. Can an home help with advice on how to combat this as our livelihood depends on the income from the bnb?  Here is a link to the planning application (comment can be read here too):

 

https://eplanning.northlanarkshire.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=neighbourComments&keyVal=QS9E1BBAI8P00

[jamieled]

I'm not sure what you mean when you say 'combat this'. Your neighbour is entitled to their opinion and to submit an objection. You could try and refute their comments but getting involved in a verbal battle on the planning portal is probably a bad idea.

 

A single neighbour objection does not mean you won't get your retrospective planning permission though.

[Dave Jones]

the only objections that count are valid planning policy objections.

 

tittle tattle, my house value has gone down, etc etc are all nonsense and wont make a jot of difference.

 

If you have been operating for 7 years or more then sod all they can do anyway.

 

If its your livelihood probably wise to spend a couple hundred on a planning specialist to give you piece of mind.

[Chanmenie]

So are you saying he has lied, if there’s any truth in what he has put I’m not surprised he has objected.to be honest.

[JohnMo]

No-one likes to hear criticism, but you need to set ground rules for your guests and enforce them.  Sounds like your a pain live next door too; if their complaint is to be believed, I would just keep calling the police to complain.

[BMF]

31 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

the only objections that count are valid planning policy objections.

 

tittle tattle, my house value has gone down, etc etc are all nonsense and wont make a jot of difference.

 

If you have been operating for 7 years or more then sod all they can do anyway.

 

If its your livelihood probably wise to spend a couple hundred on a planning specialist to give you piece of mind.

I didn't know planning specialists were a thing. I'll look into it, but if you read the comments then what would constitute a valid planning policy objection?

[nod]

32 minutes ago, Chanmenie said:

So are you saying he has lied, if there’s any truth in what he has put I’m not surprised he has objected.to be honest.

Plus 1 

If what he says is true 

Your stuffed 

[BMF]

29 minutes ago, Chanmenie said:

So are you saying he has lied, if there’s any truth in what he has put I’m not surprised he has objected.to be honest.

There are some blatant lies, yes. When we first opened there were teething issues so his comments aren't relevant to the here and now. There are no noise issues now, that's completely under control. 

 

Last night, my wife and her sister were in one of the hot tubs, just quietly chatting. This guy's sneaking around the fence at 1am when everyone else is in bed. The were really quiet, here's exaggerating everything. 

 

Cannabis, there are five houses here. If there's ever a smell of cannabis then why not phone the police, I've never smelled cannabis here and I do not tolerate drug us

 

Wear and tear on the road.....  but the vast majority of traffic on the access road is from the nearby Stables and not from us. Then second heaviest user is number 5 (the complainant) with five cars every day. Yet the majority of the road repairs are carried out by us. It's a very old road and it has been in need of re-surfacing for quite some time. If hes actually blaming the state of the road on me then hes really clutching at straws. The road had been this way for many years but nobody is willing to contribute to the remedial costs. If the costs were shared pro-rata based on usage then I'm more than willing to pay the lions share but 80% of traffic on the road is from the stables who have already refused to contribute a single penny.

 

Music and shouting, I don't think the music is ever unreasonably loud, neither do the other neighbours. I don't allow music outside after 10pm but I'm happy to ban music outdoors at all times of the day. I’d also be happy for a decibel test from his property to verify the outlandish claims.

 

House prices.....  not even remotely true, in fact it's a blatant lie. What evidence of this does he have? Only one of the houses here have been on the market in the last few years; number 4 and it sold for well over the asking price within a few days of entering the market.  The current owner pulled out of the sale, much to the buyers disappointment. There’s absolutely no evidence to back up yet another wild and outlandish statement.

 

More than two hot tubs?  Yes,  the planning application is for four rooms not two. If it's not approved then it will be two.

 

Who polices it? We enforce the curfew ourselves but we don't patrol the area like him. We make sure the guests are aware of the cut-off times when they check in. We then ensure that the tubs are empty at that time. Occasionally, a guest might sneak back out to the tub after we are in bed but we can't hear a thing as we're not sneaking around the back fences like someone from The Shining, banging the fence and cursing at people who are just quietly relaxing and minding their business. Yes, I've heard him scream at guests to, “shut the F up” when it's only him who hears them as it's only him creeping about at the back fence at night. If you're looking for something to complain about then you'll find it. 

 

10.30pm cut off unreasonable? Personally, I think that a cut-off time at 10:30pm is reasonable, as does number 5, our nearest neighbour. In fact, the complainant greed that a 10.30pm cut-off was reasonable when we discussed it here, a while back. However, I can make it a little earlier to appease him, I'd say 10pm then.

 

I'm willing to do what it takes as this is my livelihood. 

[BMF]

46 minutes ago, Chanmenie said:

So are you saying he has lied, if there’s any truth in what he has put I’m not surprised he has objected.to be honest.

Yes, there are blatant lies. 

[BMF]

32 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

No-one likes to hear criticism, but you need to set ground rules for your guests and enforce them.  Sounds like your a pain live next door too; if their complaint is to be believed, I would just keep calling the police to complain.

The police have never been called, why not? Because he's blowing it out of proportion. He actually sneaks about at the fence,creeping about and listening with his ear to the fence. It's creepy. To me it sounds very quiet outside until psycho neighbour starts shouting and banging the fence.

[BMF]

7 minutes ago, nod said:

Plus 1 

If what he says is true 

Your stuffed 

Read my replies please, I don't know if there's anything I can do because there are 4 neighbours, he's the only one to complain. The others don't mind the bnb.

[jamieled]

I understand why your neighbours comments might bother you, but planners are used to these sorts of comments. Don't sweat it, there's not a lot you can do and as mentioned elsewhere the comment is immaterial in planning terms. If your planning app is refused, its not going to be because of one neighbour objection.

[ProDave]

You may not actually need planning permisson to operate a B&B   https://www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk/content/planning-permission-and-building-control-tourism-businesses

 

If this is still your main residence and you have not made any changes to the actual building to let some of the rooms as a B&B then planning may not even be required.  That is the basis that we operated our last house as a B&B as the house was physically exactly as it was in the planning permission.

[BMF]

10 hours ago, ProDave said:

You may not actually need planning permisson to operate a B&B   https://www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk/content/planning-permission-and-building-control-tourism-businesses

 

If this is still your main residence and you have not made any changes to the actual building to let some of the rooms as a B&B then planning may not even be required.  That is the basis that we operated our last house as a B&B as the house was physically exactly as it was in the planning permission.

I do. I spoke to them before applying. Since it's more than 2 rooms, I do need planning permission. 

[BMF]

Some questions:

 

- Should I submit a reply to the neighbours comment onto the planning portal?

 

- Our bnb has 5* reviews, everywhere, nothing but 5* reviews in fact. Would it help our case if previous guests left supporting comments on the planning portal?

 

- If they deny the planning application, I'm assuming we can appeal?

 

- If it goes to appeal, if I can sweeten a deal (brown envelope) with my neighbour to remove his comments, will that be allowed?

[gaz_moose]

i wouldn't be offering him any brown envelopes as it will just spiral. 

[jamieled]

No you shouldn't submit a reply to your neighbours comment. As has been stated multiple times, a single neighbour objection is unlikely to result in your application being rejected.

 

It would not help your case if your guests left comments either. The planning department has zero interest in how good your B and B is.

 

You really need to get a better handle on the planning process and what the main considerations are in accepting/rejecting a planning app - this won't be rejected on the back of one comment, so if it was refused, and you chose to appeal, removing the neighbours comment probably isn't the issue you need to deal with. You would need to refute the material planning considerations that resulted in the application getting rejected in the first place.

[CharlieKLP]

Like others have said, don’t be too concerned. I see a lot of neighbour objections and they only matter if they are valid planning concerns that the planner would have had anyway. 
 

They can be very personal and unpleasant, and knowing these people are near you is creepy. 
 

The absolute worst thing you can do is take them seriously. 
 

… occasionally I’ve moved things in order to be polite to the neighbour and de-escalate tensions, but most of them can trot on.

[Bitpipe]

Agree with above, ignore neighbour and see what comes out of the council decision, which will be solely based on planning policy and local plan etc.

 

If you get a rejection then they will detail the grounds for rejection, referencing the specific policies, and you can take those to a planning consultant to understand if you have grounds for appeal.

 

We had a 7 page diatribe from a neighbour, who is a conveyancing solicitor, all written in flowery legalese and every objection raised was dismissed. However planners had their own issues which we had to address. That's how it works.

 

If there is a large amount of local complaints then it usually gets pulled in front of the planning committee vs being decided by an officer but even then any rejection decision still needs to adhere to planning policy and can be appealed.

[BMF]

50 minutes ago, jamieled said:

.....You really need to get a better handle on the planning process and what the main considerations are in accepting/rejecting a planning app - this won't be rejected on the back of one comment, so if it was refused, and you chose to appeal, removing the neighbours comment probably isn't the issue you need to deal with. You would need to refute the material planning considerations that resulted in the application getting rejected in the first place.

Where can I get a handle on these planning considerations?

 

Did you read the neighbours comments?

[BMF]

Thanks for all the replies to everyone on here. Its helped to ease my mind and I hope you're right that this one comment won't be the deciding factor. 

 

I'll let you all know how things transpire. 

 

I should say that the planning officer and I had several email exchanges about the application before it was even accepted. Initially we wanted 5 rooms plus an outhouse but I was persuaded to go for 4 as they'd have objected to 6. They were also concerned about parking provisions but everything was clarified and resolved even before the final application was accepted. 

[Pocster]

You could install constantly recording external cctv with audio .

This will act as evidence for his actions are indeed hang you !!! 🙄

[BMF]

1 hour ago, pocster said:

You could install constantly recording external cctv with audio .

This will act as evidence for his actions are indeed hang you !!! 🙄

It's illegal to have recording equipment in a B&B in the UK. Especially in private areas like hot tub gardens where people seek privacy for obvious reasons. 

 

I've asked another neighbour to add a favourable comment.

[Pocster]

17 minutes ago, BMF said:

It's illegal to have recording equipment in a B&B in the UK. Especially in private areas like hot tub gardens where people seek privacy for obvious reasons. 

 

I've asked another neighbour to add a favourable comment.

Didn’t know that . Assumed it was ok as long as the guests were aware …

[PeterW]

47 minutes ago, BMF said:

It's illegal to have recording equipment in a B&B in the UK

No it isn’t. You need to register with the ICO, pay £35 annually and make sure you have signs up saying cctv being used for crime prevention purposes.
 

What you cannot do is install it in changing rooms, showers or bathrooms.