Amateur bob Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 im looking at a different house design not as im told it cant be 2 storey to get planning, what are peoples thoughts on the following design? the upstairs appears to be in the attic would this be a big cost saving over a 2 storey? thanks https://www.fleminghomes.co.uk/gallery/house-designs-floor-plans/st-04-4-bedroom/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravelrash Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 Where's the telly go....and who wants two sinks in the kids bathroom, they never clean them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 Room in roof makes a lot of sense, this is what we and most rural properties in Scotland have. The method we used was not attic trusses, but a cut roof hung from ridge beams which gives uninterupted space upstairs with almost all of it achieving standing head room. It is unlikely you will really get what you want from a stock off the shelf design, but it is certainly a good starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedreamer Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Amateur bob said: im looking at a different house design not as im told it cant be 2 storey to get planning, what are peoples thoughts on the following design? the upstairs appears to be in the attic would this be a big cost saving over a 2 storey? thanks https://www.fleminghomes.co.uk/gallery/house-designs-floor-plans/st-04-4-bedroom/ The big cost saving would be to stick build the house. I decided to go for a stick build kit for our self build, a few years ago (2018-19), prices have of course risen since then and our house is smaller at 138m2, then the design in the link. It cost £13k for the materials to build the kit. Included within that is £5k for engineered attic trusses from Pasquill. Labour was £9k, for making the kit, erecting it and also a suspended ground floor. Other expensive items were a steel beam for the vaulted ceiling and three Kerto beams for the middle ridge part. I also had to hire a telehandler with a truss jib for two weeks that cost around £750. By the end of that we looked like this (excluding the velux windows). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Potter Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 3 hours ago, Amateur bob said: im looking at a different house design not as im told it cant be 2 storey to get planning, what are peoples thoughts on the following design? the upstairs appears to be in the attic would this be a big cost saving over a 2 storey? thanks https://www.fleminghomes.co.uk/gallery/house-designs-floor-plans/st-04-4-bedroom/ From an SE point of view that house look reasonable structuraly efficient = lower cost and fairly buildable. There are good few cross walls on the ground floor so easy to stabalise the building. Floor spans are modest and so on. The gabled parts of the roof will probably need girder type trusses but there is plenty available support for them. If you like the design then you could start to tweek it but the structural cost will start to rise significantly if you really want to open it up. And if you do that then you need to go back to the drawing board and start afresh. There are plenty ways of doing a 1 1/2 and 1 & 3/4 storey house. Enjoy the journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 It's tricky to say how the design will work without knowing your site. Looking at the window layout it hasn't been really designed with a modern take on thermal comfort. It's likely to overheat if the main windows are east west and you'll have cold rooms to the north of you have lots of glazing in that direction. Scottish company Heb Homes has some nice designs for room in roof buildings. Maybe they'd be worth a look, even just as inspiration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieKLP Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Was also going to recommend Heb Homes. You can use their website to make a modular house it’s really snazzy. I like their styles too, not too complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amateur bob Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 On 08/03/2022 at 20:31, Thedreamer said: The big cost saving would be to stick build the house. I decided to go for a stick build kit for our self build, a few years ago (2018-19), prices have of course risen since then and our house is smaller at 138m2, then the design in the link. It cost £13k for the materials to build the kit. Included within that is £5k for engineered attic trusses from Pasquill. Labour was £9k, for making the kit, erecting it and also a suspended ground floor. Other expensive items were a steel beam for the vaulted ceiling and three Kerto beams for the middle ridge part. I also had to hire a telehandler with a truss jib for two weeks that cost around £750. By the end of that we looked like this (excluding the velux windows). Why does everyone not do stick build if its cheaper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amateur bob Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 On 08/03/2022 at 22:12, Gus Potter said: From an SE point of view that house look reasonable structuraly efficient = lower cost and fairly buildable. There are good few cross walls on the ground floor so easy to stabalise the building. Floor spans are modest and so on. The gabled parts of the roof will probably need girder type trusses but there is plenty available support for them. If you like the design then you could start to tweek it but the structural cost will start to rise significantly if you really want to open it up. And if you do that then you need to go back to the drawing board and start afresh. There are plenty ways of doing a 1 1/2 and 1 & 3/4 storey house. Enjoy the journey. Thanks for the reply so this design is fairly cheap to do if i dont open any of the downstsirs rooms up? Could you give me a rough cost for a house like this, average/basic spec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Amateur bob said: Why does everyone not do stick build if its cheaper? Most timber frame factory builds are used by developers who can squeeze the TF companies, also they have many repeated designs on large sites vastly reducing the cost of crane hire, design and erection teams. Mass produces TFs are sadly almost all built to just tick the Bregs minimums. Us self builders are somewhat more forward thinking. The gap really narrows once you go to one off designs and builds. Having scouted a couple of bog standard TF factory builds the general care and attention to continuity of insulation and airtightness+windtightness membranes was poor. If you wanted to spec to a passive level stick building was competitive with the few excellent TF companies that provide this . This cost difference will no doubt change when passive goes mainstream no doubt. Edited March 10, 2022 by Iceverge 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 There's a massive range of TF providers local to us, and while some of them certainly aim at the developer market, none of them do design and kit supply quite the way many of the Scottish firms do. Every job is a one-off and there are plenty of choices within each company as to what insulation and airtightness levels you might choose to aim for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedreamer Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 3 hours ago, Amateur bob said: Why does everyone not do stick build if its cheaper? A range of reasons. Lack of good quality joiners. They want or like a house design from a kit provider You will need a professional such as a structural engineer to design the structure People don't have the time and want it to be as easy as possible. These are valid reasons not to stick build. I was happy to incurr a bit of stress, work and time to get a very good financial result. I live on Skye where a number of timber frame kits providers exist R/House & Hebridean Homes, for us they were way too expensive. I know folk who are struggling to cover the build cost when they are coming to sell. My life would be completely different if I had gone with a timber frame kit and main contractor or turnkey route. I am 35 and my self build is the first property I have owned but my loan to value is 20%. All my household bills (mortgage, council tax, utilities, insurance) are less than £500 a month. If I recall @Amateur bob from earlier threads, was your budget not quite tight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amateur bob Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, Thedreamer said: A range of reasons. Lack of good quality joiners. They want or like a house design from a kit provider You will need a professional such as a structural engineer to design the structure People don't have the time and want it to be as easy as possible. These are valid reasons not to stick build. I was happy to incurr a bit of stress, work and time to get a very good financial result. I live on Skye where a number of timber frame kits providers exist R/House & Hebridean Homes, for us they were way too expensive. I know folk who are struggling to cover the build cost when they are coming to sell. My life would be completely different if I had gone with a timber frame kit and main contractor or turnkey route. I am 35 and my self build is the first property I have owned but my loan to value is 20%. All my household bills (mortgage, council tax, utilities, insurance) are less than £500 a month. If I recall @Amateur bob from earlier threads, was your budget not quite tight? yes he budget is tight but would i not need joinery skills and time myself to do a stick build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedreamer Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 9 minutes ago, Amateur bob said: yes he budget is tight but would i not need joinery skills and time myself to do a stick build? Yes, unless you are feeling confident. I would rather put more money my joiner's way rather than the pay for the overheads, showrooms etc for a kit provider. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amateur bob Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 minute ago, Thedreamer said: Yes, unless you are feeling confident. I would rather put more money my joiner's way rather than the pay for the overheads, showrooms etc for a kit provider. so a standard joiner can built these stick frame houses up to the spec of the kit providers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedreamer Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Yes, most kit labourers in a factory/shed will be of a lower experience/skill then an experienced joiner. The kit providers are looking to make the maximum profit from you! Some providers will incorporate equipment which injects insulation into the panels (this can't be replicated on site) but PIR/glasswool cut well (by you!) on site, will provide a very good result. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Thedreamer said: injects insulation into the panels (this can't be replicated on site) Cellulose can be blown in on site. Better than plastic insulation too IMO. Edited March 10, 2022 by Iceverge 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenki Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Amateur bob said: so a standard joiner can built these stick frame houses up to the spec of the kit providers? This is going to be my approach. Stick built on site. The expense, unless you can do it yourself will be getting panel drawings with the details you need to build on site. I have drawn my own, and then passed these to a Structural engineer for confirmation and the certificate of design (Scotland). youtube "larry haun" and its surprising how simple a process he makes it. The quality of the product is down to Square accurate cuts and accuracy when assembling. I don't want to re-look at costs yet as prices are constantly rising, but my build from a timber frame company was around 50K supply only(insulation membranes and plasterboards. plus external membranes and fly battened roof.) I got my stick built costs at the time to around 27K, but with thicker walls and better u values all round. That saving will be my time spent cutting and assembling. no other way would work for me. The goal is no mortgage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amateur bob Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 https://scotframe.co.uk/house-style/calligarry/ how do people feel this design compares to the other one roughly on build cost? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amateur bob Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 or this https://scotframe.co.uk/house-style/achachork/ any help/opinions welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) If the house is small and rectangular, with A frame (or attic) roof construction. then there is a Scottish Government document outlining the whole design process. As a Chartered Engineer I still found it slightly challenging, to follow the process, but it is all from tables and not first principles. The purpose of it is to allow design by a 'competent' and experienced person, not necessarily qualified. Foundations too. Edited March 10, 2022 by saveasteading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 56 minutes ago, saveasteading said: If the house is small and rectangular, with A frame (or attic) roof construction. then there is a Scottish Government document outlining the whole design process. As a Chartered Engineer I still found it slightly challenging, to follow the process, but it is all from tables and not first principles. @saveasteading I am assuming you’re referring to this ..? https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/advice-and-guidance/2020/02/the-small-buildings-structural-guidance/documents/small-buildings-structural-guidance/small-buildings-structural-guidance/govscot%3Adocument/Small%2BBuildings%2BStructural%2BGuidance%2B%2B.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 51 minutes ago, PeterW said: I am assuming you’re referring to this ..? that is the one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 4 hours ago, Iceverge said: Cellulose can be blown in on site. Better than plastic insulation too IMO. If I was to ever self build again this is the route I would take. Fitting glass wool and PIR yourself saves money but is a real pain and slow and maybe the one thing, so far, I wish I’d done differently. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedreamer Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 4 hours ago, Jenki said: This is going to be my approach. Stick built on site. The expense, unless you can do it yourself will be getting panel drawings with the details you need to build on site. I have drawn my own, and then passed these to a Structural engineer for confirmation and the certificate of design (Scotland). youtube "larry haun" and its surprising how simple a process he makes it. The quality of the product is down to Square accurate cuts and accuracy when assembling. I don't want to re-look at costs yet as prices are constantly rising, but my build from a timber frame company was around 50K supply only(insulation membranes and plasterboards. plus external membranes and fly battened roof.) I got my stick built costs at the time to around 27K, but with thicker walls and better u values all round. That saving will be my time spent cutting and assembling. no other way would work for me. The goal is no mortgage. Larry's videos are great. I once watched the entire house build series. Their arms were like nail guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now