new design

[Simplysimon]

2 hours ago, Amateur bob said:

or this https://scotframe.co.uk/house-style/achachork/

 

any help/opinions welcome

personally if i'm paying for a footprint i want the same floorspace on all floor, i've no interest in paying over the odds trying to impress others and therefore have no need of wow factors. when we bought our plot the design had two mezzanines and four beds, we've now got four beds and no mezzanines. house next door, same footprint has 5 beds and two mezzanines, go figure the room sizes. they also have floor to ridge 2g glazing in two of the gables and steel colums sitting on the foundations.

we have 350mm blown cellulose walls and roof with 200mm recticel under a 100mm floor slab and 3g windows and doors.

 

[CotswoldDoItUpper]

4 hours ago, Jenki said:

youtube "larry haun" and its surprising how simple a process he makes it. 

That’s strangely mesmerising!! 

[Jenki]

 

14 hours ago, Amateur bob said:

https://scotframe.co.uk/house-style/calligarry/ how do people feel this design compares to the other one roughly on build cost? thanks

 

14 hours ago, Amateur bob said:

or this https://scotframe.chttps://accounts.google.com/ServiceLogin?service=cl&passive=1209600&continue=http://www.google.com/calendar/render&followup=http://www.google.com/calendar&scc=1o.uk/house-style/achachork/

 

any help/opinions welcome

 

My View on this and any design was simple, my budget is tight, so functionality wins.

If you set out with this in mind then be prepared for a lot of compromise.  Its great to draw complex foundations with different roof line, roof heights, and you can get a stunning effect, but each little change from a rectangular box costs more money.  More in materials more in labour or both, then each of these decisions effect the cost going forward. 

 

The easiest building to build is a rectangle, with gables and 1 roof line (Well a rectangular box and a pent roof) any deviation from this will cost money.  My Design uses the rectangular box, but over a single level, (this is with an eye on the future) I think I could have saved a little by going room in roof with the bedrooms upstairs. Smaller foot print etc. 

If your budget is healthy and mortgages are in your future then treat yourself to a porch, different roof planes,  different roof heights, dormers etc.  

If not resist the architects desire to break new ground, (and your bank balance).

One thing to note that the timber frame costs of these designs will vary little, but the cost of building it can be vastly different.  I would have thought as a quick example,  a dormer would cost 10 times the cost of a velux window, but the kit cost would vary a few hundred quid.

 

Building your own house should be a great experience, but reality has to be upfront.  I'm sure all the compromises, and "discussions" we had at design stage, will make the build process less stressful, when the money is disappearing faster than Abramovich's. 

 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Thedreamer said:

 

Larry's videos are great. I once watched the entire house build series. Their arms were like nail guns.

I know. 3 1/2" nails, disappear in 1 blow.😲

Edited March 11, 2022 by Jenki
Typo :(

[Amateur bob]

5 hours ago, Jenki said:

 

 

 

My View on this and any design was simple, my budget is tight, so functionality wins.

If you set out with this in mind then be prepared for a lot of compromise.  Its great to draw complex foundations with different roof line, roof heights, and you can get a stunning effect, but each little change from a rectangular box costs more money.  More in materials more in labour or both, then each of these decisions effect the cost going forward. 

 

The easiest building to build is a rectangle, with gables and 1 roof line (Well a rectangular box and a pent roof) any deviation from this will cost money.  My Design uses the rectangular box, but over a single level, (this is with an eye on the future) I think I could have saved a little by going room in roof with the bedrooms upstairs. Smaller foot print etc. 

If your budget is healthy and mortgages are in your future then treat yourself to a porch, different roof planes,  different roof heights, dormers etc.  

If not resist the architects desire to break new ground, (and your bank balance).

One thing to note that the timber frame costs of these designs will vary little, but the cost of building it can be vastly different.  I would have thought as a quick example,  a dormer would cost 10 times the cost of a velux window, but the kit cost would vary a few hundred quid.

 

Building your own house should be a great experience, but reality has to be upfront.  I'm sure all the compromises, and "discussions" we had at design stage, will make the build process less stressful, when the money is disappearing faster than Abramovich's. 

 

 

 

 

I know. 3 1/2" nails, disappear in 1 blow.😲

our origional design was 2 storey box shape as it was an easy designbut refused, the next application needs to be materially different so i thought lowering ridge height would help planning and roofs in roof would be cost efficient, are those designs ive shown quite expensive?

[Iceverge]

I have to agree with @Jenkientirely. 

 

Keep it simple and keep it square. When we started we thought it was a case of €/m2 regardless of design. 3 planning permissions later we ended up with a completely rectangular box. No external porches or add ons.  Design 2 was a stepped tetris block shape. Changing to the final rectangular floorprint saved €30k with no loss of floor area.

 

Were the council specific on lightly approval for ridge height?

 

Do you have a maximum plot width that you can use? 
 

The design can be made more interesting with verandas, conservatories, overhangs, uninsulated porches etc all outside the main thermal envelope. 

 

 

The designs you have picked out are not hugely complex or expensive to build to bog standard levels of detailing etc. However given the oppurtunity you should aim for excellent levels of airtightness and insulation.  With a simple design these will be achievable with no extra cost. Our house ended up cheaper than an equivilant bregs house with an ASHP as the passive house detailing meant we could omit a conventional central heating system.  

 

It's an erie feeling walking into a house and feeling the warmth with no central heating on. Once you've done it it becomes very difficult to see why everyone doesn't, espically as it can be done on a tight budget.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Amateur bob]

16 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

I have to agree with @Jenkientirely. 

 

Keep it simple and keep it square. When we started we thought it was a case of €/m2 regardless of design. 3 planning permissions later we ended up with a completely rectangular box. No external porches or add ons.  Design 2 was a stepped tetris block shape. Changing to the final rectangular floorprint saved €30k with no loss of floor area.

 

Were the council specific on lightly approval for ridge height?

 

Do you have a maximum plot width that you can use? 
 

The design can be made more interesting with verandas, conservatories, overhangs, uninsulated porches etc all outside the main thermal envelope. 

 

 

The designs you have picked out are not hugely complex or expensive to build to bog standard levels of detailing etc. However given the oppurtunity you should aim for excellent levels of airtightness and insulation.  With a simple design these will be achievable with no extra cost. Our house ended up cheaper than an equivilant bregs house with an ASHP as the passive house detailing meant we could omit a conventional central heating system.  

 

It's an erie feeling walking into a house and feeling the warmth with no central heating on. Once you've done it it becomes very difficult to see why everyone doesn't, espically as it can be done on a tight budget.

 

 

 

 

 

 

they basically commented on the size and visual impact so i thought lowering ridge height would be a good place to start? no real limitations to plot size

[CharlieKLP]

Just to correct something, maybe I misunderstood but if you hire an architect, it’s perfectly possible to tell them you’re designing on a budget and you want things to be as structurally sensible as possible. From my experience this saves money.

 

I’ve also worked with timber frame companies and they charge the same for catalogue designs as new bespoke designs. Just use the in-house architects for free too.

Edited March 11, 2022 by CharlieKLP

[Amateur bob]

https://www.fleminghomes.co.uk/gallery/house-designs-floor-plans/st-02-3-bedroom/

 

this would be a cheap design as no dormer windows and use of roof for upstairs?

[Jenki]

3 hours ago, Amateur bob said:

they basically commented on the size and visual impact so i thought lowering ridge height would be a good place to start? no real limitations to plot size

1 1/2 storey would be a significant change in design. 

My comments FWIW, for the design you picked:

Rooms in roof good

It will need some big steels to carry the vaulted ceiling  which will have an impact on the foundation design. 

Roof valleys cost more.

Thumbs up for the Velux windows.

Layout works

The hall / Entrance is massive. (Bigger than Bed2 & 3 Combined).

 

[PeterW]

@Amateur bob I’m not sure where this is heading tbh. If you want a cheap easy design then a rectangular box is the cheapest preferably no wider than 6m and with no daft protrusions. 
 

It’s then up to the engineer or architect / technician to draw up a simple plan and you submit to planning. That’s the cheapest way, and the cheapest build. Borrowing someone else’s design and saying “will this be cheap” is nigh on impossible to say as there are too many variables. 
 

What is your entire budget, have you got land already, and where are you so we understand the local vernacular etc. 

[CharlieKLP]

34 minutes ago, PeterW said:

@Amateur bob I’m not sure where this is heading tbh. If you want a cheap easy design then a rectangular box is the cheapest preferably no wider than 6m and with no daft protrusions. 
 

It’s then up to the engineer or architect / technician to draw up a simple plan and you submit to planning. That’s the cheapest way, and the cheapest build. Borrowing someone else’s design and saying “will this be cheap” is nigh on impossible to say as there are too many variables. 
 

What is your entire budget, have you got land already, and where are you so we understand the local vernacular etc. 

 

or go to a timber frame company with a budget and say ‘design me something simple for this budget’. They will do your design and planning and your frame for you. 
 

some do the design for free even. 

[Amateur bob]

On 11/03/2022 at 17:34, Jenki said:

1 1/2 storey would be a significant change in design. 

My comments FWIW, for the design you picked:

Rooms in roof good

It will need some big steels to carry the vaulted ceiling  which will have an impact on the foundation design. 

Roof valleys cost more.

Thumbs up for the Velux windows.

Layout works

The hall / Entrance is massive. (Bigger than Bed2 & 3 Combined).

 

thanks for the feedback, is there any way to avoid these big steels for the vaulted cieling? steel is not cheap just now

[Amateur bob]

On 11/03/2022 at 17:36, PeterW said:

@Amateur bob I’m not sure where this is heading tbh. If you want a cheap easy design then a rectangular box is the cheapest preferably no wider than 6m and with no daft protrusions. 
 

It’s then up to the engineer or architect / technician to draw up a simple plan and you submit to planning. That’s the cheapest way, and the cheapest build. Borrowing someone else’s design and saying “will this be cheap” is nigh on impossible to say as there are too many variables. 
 

What is your entire budget, have you got land already, and where are you so we understand the local vernacular etc. 

i tried that with planning but now having to alter design, im just looking for rough tips on making the design cost effective, im central scotland 

[Jenki]

On 13/03/2022 at 13:34, Amateur bob said:

thanks for the feedback, is there any way to avoid these big steels for the vaulted cieling? steel is not cheap just now

Cheapest option is a rectangle. You can use camber trusses that will give you a vaulted ceiling. If you build long and thin, you could have a vaulted ceiling at 1 end, and room in roof trusses for the remainder to get bedrooms.

As soon as you move away from a rectangle / sq then the foundation and  roof becomes more complex if you want vaulted ceilings.

 

 

[Amateur bob]

On 14/03/2022 at 19:16, Jenki said:

Cheapest option is a rectangle. You can use camber trusses that will give you a vaulted ceiling. If you build long and thin, you could have a vaulted ceiling at 1 end, and room in roof trusses for the remainder to get bedrooms.

As soon as you move away from a rectangle / sq then the foundation and  roof becomes more complex if you want vaulted ceilings.

 

 

https://scotframe.co.uk/house-style/pheasant/ based on your advice what do you think of this? or is this a bit boring

[ProDave]

None of those stock designs are floating my boat.

 

I offer up my house plans. My design, detailed professionally for the building warrant, and only a few minor as built changes from the plans.  I think it makes a nice simple house very efficient use of space and it works well for us.

 

 

992830669_BW005-GFPlan.pdf BW007 - FF Plan.pdf

[Iceverge]

Thanks for sharing @ProDave. 

 

It looks like an efficent layout. I like the upstairs particularly. If one was really stuck for cash I guess the garage and sunroom could be omitted.

 

Would you alter any aspect of it if you were to do it all again?

 

It looks somewhat "overstoved" in the plans. I gather you reduced it to one. Where did it end up?

 

Where is North in reference to the house? 

 

 

[Gus Potter]

Hiya @Amateur bob

 

Have raked back through you posts and made random comments for your digestion and general discussion. Reach for the Rennies if need be all. Your posts, generally copied, are in italic.

“I’m looking at a different house design”

Good.. different does not mean expensive. I would go back and really write down you requirements.

For example I built a house for us that had three large bedrooms near Biggar. Other houses locally on the same footprint had 5 bedrooms but we always designed for there being just two of us living in it most of the time. We knew that potentially it could reduce the value as it was not really a large family house. When sold we got a substantial premium over and above a similar 5 bed as the folk that bought it were retired and wanted this type of house.

Why does everyone not do stick build if its cheaper?

A number of reasons. One is speed and speed often translates into the release of funds by a lender and valuation.

Speed.. well roughly two joiners will build three accurate panels a day give and take.  Some panels can be long, some short but I would price on 3 a day. You also need a good working platform and space to store the panels you have build on site. Take your average external panel as being about 3.0m in length to be safe. Internal non load bearing panels are just erected later on, often once the ceilings are up. The non load bearing panels need very little drawing effort.  Internal racking panels are the same as external panels but with no vapour barrier.

Two good joiners who know how to build kits on site £ 250 -275 each per day. That will get folks attention in the Central belt, my Mum lives in Dunning.

To build a kit on site you need the panel drawings. I do panel drawings for Contractors I work with that do stick building as I’m often doing the whole design so all the cad / model files and so on are already set up with grids, levels and so on..  you need a bit of practice to do this well and most importantly you need to know what kind of joiner / contractor you are design for as one part of the job is to play to their strengths. 

It can be difficult initially to find joiners who will take the job on. That said I recently did a 250 sq metre + single storey house with complex roof where the Client specified stick build as this suited his preferred contractor. Cost to do the walls panel drawings about £1750.00 with a bit of prefabicated roof truss specification /detailing chucked in.

Once you have the panels up you can then shop about for insulation and so on, you can change your mind! Stick building gives you more flexibility and choice.

“Thanks for the reply so this design is fairly cheap to do if i dont open any of the downstsirs rooms up? Could you give me a rough cost for a house like this, average/basic spec”

Would love to but prices are all over the place. The main thing is not to get to hung up on the timber kit. PeterW and plenty others on BH I think (and I agree) suggest that the super structural frame is only 10 – 15% of the cost of the job so even if you pay more for the kit in the round it’s not a disaster.

“yes he budget is tight but would i not need joinery skills and time myself to do a stick build?”

To build a kit for the first time DIY you’ll need to be fit! You’ll also need some joinery skills and an understanding of wood.. post for another day.

 

“so a standard joiner can built these stick frame houses up to the spec of the kit providers?”

No they need to be familiar with TF construction, know their way around the types of metal fixings and how to fix. Etc.

“Our original design was 2 storey box shape as it was an easy design but refused, the next application needs to be materially different so i thought lowering ridge height would help planning and roofs in roof would be cost efficient, are those designs I’ve shown quite expensive?

Dive back and review for example the Scot Gov permitted development rules, then see where you don’t comply and address as you can. It may seem like basic stuff but in doing so it will increase your confidence and allow you to get the best out of this.

“They basically commented on the size and visual impact so i thought lowering ridge height would be a good place to start? no real limitations to plot size”

Have a day out walking about the area, see what else is out there. Imagine you are a planner! Good you have plenty land as this is a real bonus. Also, when you walk round and about your land you can get a better feel for the shape, contours and so on from a distance rather than just standing in the middle looking outwards.

”This would be a cheap design as no dormer windows and use of roof for upstairs? “

Old rule of thumb.. allow 3-  5K per standard 1200 – 1350 wide dormer if new build. If attic conversion folks.. the price can be a good bit more.

“Thanks for the feedback, is there any way to avoid these big steels for the vaulted ceiling? steel is not cheap just now”

Don’t get too hung up on this for now unless you are going for daft / pretentious vaulting and huge spans. Concentrate on the layout that suits you.

Your big construction savings often come from setting the building at the right height with respect to the existing ground, foundation design, drainage design, access, services and so on.

The immediate value comes from getting the house to meet your dreams... just a great home to live in and.. in doing so you make it energy efficient, sit well in the environment for example. If you do this then the house will also maintain its long term value.

All the best.

[Amateur bob]

8 hours ago, Gus Potter said:

Hiya @Amateur bob

 

Have raked back through you posts and made random comments for your digestion and general discussion. Reach for the Rennies if need be all. Your posts, generally copied, are in italic.

“I’m looking at a different house design”

Good.. different does not mean expensive. I would go back and really write down you requirements.

For example I built a house for us that had three large bedrooms near Biggar. Other houses locally on the same footprint had 5 bedrooms but we always designed for there being just two of us living in it most of the time. We knew that potentially it could reduce the value as it was not really a large family house. When sold we got a substantial premium over and above a similar 5 bed as the folk that bought it were retired and wanted this type of house.

Why does everyone not do stick build if its cheaper?

A number of reasons. One is speed and speed often translates into the release of funds by a lender and valuation.

Speed.. well roughly two joiners will build three accurate panels a day give and take.  Some panels can be long, some short but I would price on 3 a day. You also need a good working platform and space to store the panels you have build on site. Take your average external panel as being about 3.0m in length to be safe. Internal non load bearing panels are just erected later on, often once the ceilings are up. The non load bearing panels need very little drawing effort.  Internal racking panels are the same as external panels but with no vapour barrier.

Two good joiners who know how to build kits on site £ 250 -275 each per day. That will get folks attention in the Central belt, my Mum lives in Dunning.

To build a kit on site you need the panel drawings. I do panel drawings for Contractors I work with that do stick building as I’m often doing the whole design so all the cad / model files and so on are already set up with grids, levels and so on..  you need a bit of practice to do this well and most importantly you need to know what kind of joiner / contractor you are design for as one part of the job is to play to their strengths. 

It can be difficult initially to find joiners who will take the job on. That said I recently did a 250 sq metre + single storey house with complex roof where the Client specified stick build as this suited his preferred contractor. Cost to do the walls panel drawings about £1750.00 with a bit of prefabicated roof truss specification /detailing chucked in.

Once you have the panels up you can then shop about for insulation and so on, you can change your mind! Stick building gives you more flexibility and choice.

“Thanks for the reply so this design is fairly cheap to do if i dont open any of the downstsirs rooms up? Could you give me a rough cost for a house like this, average/basic spec”

Would love to but prices are all over the place. The main thing is not to get to hung up on the timber kit. PeterW and plenty others on BH I think (and I agree) suggest that the super structural frame is only 10 – 15% of the cost of the job so even if you pay more for the kit in the round it’s not a disaster.

“yes he budget is tight but would i not need joinery skills and time myself to do a stick build?”

To build a kit for the first time DIY you’ll need to be fit! You’ll also need some joinery skills and an understanding of wood.. post for another day.

 

“so a standard joiner can built these stick frame houses up to the spec of the kit providers?”

No they need to be familiar with TF construction, know their way around the types of metal fixings and how to fix. Etc.

“Our original design was 2 storey box shape as it was an easy design but refused, the next application needs to be materially different so i thought lowering ridge height would help planning and roofs in roof would be cost efficient, are those designs I’ve shown quite expensive?

Dive back and review for example the Scot Gov permitted development rules, then see where you don’t comply and address as you can. It may seem like basic stuff but in doing so it will increase your confidence and allow you to get the best out of this.

“They basically commented on the size and visual impact so i thought lowering ridge height would be a good place to start? no real limitations to plot size”

Have a day out walking about the area, see what else is out there. Imagine you are a planner! Good you have plenty land as this is a real bonus. Also, when you walk round and about your land you can get a better feel for the shape, contours and so on from a distance rather than just standing in the middle looking outwards.

”This would be a cheap design as no dormer windows and use of roof for upstairs? “

Old rule of thumb.. allow 3-  5K per standard 1200 – 1350 wide dormer if new build. If attic conversion folks.. the price can be a good bit more.

“Thanks for the feedback, is there any way to avoid these big steels for the vaulted ceiling? steel is not cheap just now”

Don’t get too hung up on this for now unless you are going for daft / pretentious vaulting and huge spans. Concentrate on the layout that suits you.

Your big construction savings often come from setting the building at the right height with respect to the existing ground, foundation design, drainage design, access, services and so on.

The immediate value comes from getting the house to meet your dreams... just a great home to live in and.. in doing so you make it energy efficient, sit well in the environment for example. If you do this then the house will also maintain its long term value.

All the best.

thanks for the reply i think the stick bild option could be a bit complicated for me id be worried about a joiner getting it wrong, the planners arent happy about the size and urban look of the property, interesting so a house with 2 dormer windows cold cost an extra 10k over just windows flat to the roof, best avoid that if possible then

[Amateur bob]

10 hours ago, ProDave said:

None of those stock designs are floating my boat.

 

I offer up my house plans. My design, detailed professionally for the building warrant, and only a few minor as built changes from the plans.  I think it makes a nice simple house very efficient use of space and it works well for us.

 

 

992830669_BW005-GFPlan.pdf 2.18 MB · 11 downloads BW007 - FF Plan.pdf 1.62 MB · 9 downloads

i quite lie the design although id prob omit garage to save costs, how much roughly did it cost to build and do you have some elevation pics? thanks

[ProDave]

9 hours ago, Iceverge said:

Thanks for sharing @ProDave. 

 

It looks like an efficent layout. I like the upstairs particularly. If one was really stuck for cash I guess the garage and sunroom could be omitted.

 

Would you alter any aspect of it if you were to do it all again?

 

It looks somewhat "overstoved" in the plans. I gather you reduced it to one. Where did it end up?

 

Where is North in reference to the house? 

 

 

Thanks for that.  The front is north and the rear south.  So the living rooms get the sun (and the sun room)  Yes no reason why you could not build it without the sun room and garage.

 

We only fitted one stove, in the kitchen / diner and in a different location to shown, about mid way along the west wall next to the door.  The single 5kW stove will heat the whole house if you keep both the double doors to the stairwell open.  If you shut the kitchen / diner doors then it will overheat just that one room.  You really do have to think of it as whole house heating and keep the doors open.

 

I would make the main bathroom slightly deeper than it was but by the time I realises I wanted to do that, the bedroom doors were in place and that would have been a big job to move them (trivial if noticed before that load bearing wall was built).  Changes we did make, omit the airing cupboard from the east bedroom, that made the en-suite bigger.  The HW tank is now in the small bedroom that puts it much more central to the points of use.  We have not yet built the pantry.  One thing that is not to everyones taste is the combined utility and WC.  It works well for us though.

 

The upstairs roof is built as a cut roof from big ridge beams and a "gable end" extends out at the front centre above the bathroom, and two gable ends extend out the rear one above each bedroom.  These mean almost all of the upstairs has standing headroom even though it is room in roof.

 

We built it for about £150K so just under £1000 per square metre, but it took 6 years and a LOT of DIY work to get it that low. You would not do that now with the increased cost of materials so I don't really have a clue what it would cost to build now.  I doubt it's much more expensive than any other house design.

 

Elevation plan attached.

 

BW013 - Elevations.pdf