Formal Introduction - Highlands New Build

[Jenki]

Hi All, I've been around and commented here and there, and asked questions, but finally we are in a position to say we will be starting our new lives, and build later this year. 

We have bought and obtained planning permission, (Finally),  a croft (L shaped field - no buildings or services), in the rural village of Occumster, on the East coast in the Highlands. approx. 12M SW of Wick.  

The plan is to build a modest 2 bed single storey house, and a couple of camping pods.  I've attached a few drawings. Big plans and small budget.

Its a full change of life style, I'm a builder, so if need be I will hopefully get some work here and there, but the main focus will be to get up and running with the pods for some income, house then livestock to follow.

Moving From Preston so already used to the rain, just have to get used to the wind and we will be set.

keep safe

Pete and Mandy 

 

 

201021_REV_FloorPlan_LAND 105M SE OF SUIL NA MARA_A4.pdf 101121_REV_Site_Plan_LAND 105M SE OF SUIL NA MARA_A3.pdf 101121_REV_Site_Elevation_LAND 105M SE OF SUIL NA MARA_A4.pdf 191021_REV_Sections_LAND_105M_SE_OF_SUIL_NA_MARA_A4.pdf 231021_REV_PODS_LAND 105M SE OF SUIL NA MARA_A3.pdf

[ProDave]

Hi and welcome. 

 

It looks like you are building a warm roof structure to allow for possible expansion of living space into the loft.

 

I also note you are planning wood fibre cladding and thin coat render.  I am VERY interested to know who has specified this, which thin coat render you are using, what certifications they have offered you and are you aware of any issues with it in an exposed location like yours?

 

Yours is probably one location where a small wind turbine would work and produce a useful amount of power.

[Russell griffiths]

I would also look at your external skin for the walls. 

Forgetting daves dramas at the moment, it doesn’t strike me as a robust detail for your external walls. 

 

If your fixed to a rendered outside then I would fit a block outer skin with a good cavity between that and the frame. 

 

If not render then then I would look at larch cladding and again a good cavity between that and the frame.

 

Or just go poly icf and larch cladding. 

 

Lots of good systems out there, but your location dictates that you need something a bit tough.  

[saveasteading]

3 hours ago, Jenki said:

From Preston so already used to the rain,

Rainfall at Wick is officially  'LOW'.

about 2/3 of that in Preston.

 

But wind will drive rain inside if it can, so attention to detail will be very important....I mean design, as you are obv building it yourself with great care.

[Jenki]

5 hours ago, ProDave said:

Hi and welcome. 

 

It looks like you are building a warm roof structure to allow for possible expansion of living space into the loft.

 

I also note you are planning wood fibre cladding and thin coat render.  I am VERY interested to know who has specified this, which thin coat render you are using, what certifications they have offered you and are you aware of any issues with it in an exposed location like yours?

 

Yours is probably one location where a small wind turbine would work and produce a useful amount of power.

Hi. Well, no one has specified this, but I've read and read your build and it make sense, so if you have to  nail me down to a specifier I would say Pro Dave, Build Hub?. 

No decisions made on the reader yet.

With  regards to the wind turbine, I agree. So the initial application was for 2 micro turbines, with the idea of directing anything they gave through a battery and to a immersion heater.

However planning wanted very specific information regarding specification and noise. And at the cheap end this is difficult. I found one turbine that gave 42Db. But they came back and asked what distance/ pressure range that was taken. At 42db there are noisier fridges, so I gave up and removed the request, planning was granted by return??

 

We wanted to clad the whole place in steel cladding. But planning were adamant the square box, white render was the way to go. With the back and forth this is where we ended.

So my question is would you use this render again? 

 

 

[ProDave]

Well you have read my posts.  I agree, the principle of render applied to wood fibre was a good idea.  It meant the whole thickness of the wall make up was adding to insulation.  And if it had proven reliable, then it would have been good.

 

I would like to be able to say we solved all the problems with ours but I cannot, so i cannot recommend anyone to use the same system.  The manufacturer have been "less than helpful"   What alternatives are there?  Well render board mounted on battens and a different render system applied to that?

 

From the detective work I have done, the issues I have had / am having seem to be related to storm events when we get wind driven rain lashing the side of the house, then followed swiftly with temperatures well below 0 so the moisture that managed to get in, freezes and expands causing damage.  Solve the problem of ANY moisture getting in during wind driven rain and you are well on the way to nailing it.

[Jenki]

4 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

I would also look at your external skin for the walls. 

Forgetting daves dramas at the moment, it doesn’t strike me as a robust detail for your external walls. 

 

If your fixed to a rendered outside then I would fit a block outer skin with a good cavity between that and the frame. 

 

If not render then then I would look at larch cladding and again a good cavity between that and the frame.

 

Or just go poly icf and larch cladding. 

 

Quote

Lots of good systems out there,

but your location dictates that you need something a bit tough.  

Planning were very adamant that render and white render to be sure, was the way to go.?.

Cavity walls not ideal for my build is I don't want to build them.

 

[Jenki]

13 minutes ago, ProDave said:

  Solve the problem of ANY moisture getting in during wind driven rain and you are well on the way to nailing it.

So windy Wick night not be the best place to to prove the concept?.

I want easy,  would prefer to clad.so might get some feedback and  guarantees from render manufacturers, if I can't then Use this as a lever to change planning for cladding?

[JohnMo]

I take you still have to get a warrant?

 

During the warrant stage I change quite a lot including the whole build method, quite a few sizes etc.

 

Could stone slips be an alternative to render, from a distance you get the same look, but close up a very different look?

[Jenki]

2 hours ago, JohnMo said:

I take you still have to get a warrant?

 

During the warrant stage I change quite a lot including the whole build method, quite a few sizes etc.

 

Could stone slips be an alternative to render, from a distance you get the same look, but close up a very different look?

Building warrant application in , change to design i.e. façade materials etc will require planning approval, and the Highland council really wanted a white rectangular box. getting cladding on one elevation was a massive win.

 

[Iceverge]

Fiber cement board over and then a cavity a synthetic render is probably the most straight forward answer. This isn't fool proof however. I think @Bitpipe had some issues with ballooning boards. 

 

BTW I love small houses.  Building the pods first is an excellent idea. Accommodation during the build, income and you get to refine your build process before the house. Tremendous. 

 

You have really top U values and will be almost thermal bridge free. I wouldn't be surprised if a direct electric approach to DHW and space heating was the most economical rather than a heat pump. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Iceverge

[Jenki]

57 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

You have really top U values and will be almost thermal bridge free. I wouldn't be surprised if a direct electric approach to DHW and space heating was the most economical rather than a heat pump. 

Do you mean just immersion heaters for DHW, or electric boilers?

I've Built several large extensions with Wet UFH and loved the result, so my plan was  250L Thermal store (to eliminate the G3 requirements) also the thermal store should prevent any issues with flow rates on the heat pump.

but this is way down the line so open to more research if you can point me somewhere.

 

 

[ProDave]

19 minutes ago, Jenki said:

o my plan was  250L Thermal store (to eliminate the G3 requirements) also the thermal store should prevent any issues with flow rates on the heat pump.

A thermal store is a very bad match to a heat pump.  For a thermal store to work the water it stores has to be quite a lot hotter than than the hot water delivery temperature or else it will only have a tiny capacity before your hot water starts to go cold.  And heating the water in the thermal store much hotter is not what heat pumps are good at.

 

Many of us find heating the hot water to 48 degrees in an UVC works well and when you run the hot tap you get pretty much a constant 48 degrees until it runs out and then goes cold quite suddenly.  The G3 won't add much cost if you can find a plumber you get on with where you do the bulk of the plumbing and just get him to connect the cold water with all the pressure control gubbins and test and certify it.  Several have done that.  I just asked a plumber I have met on several jobs and he was happy do do it for not much money.  building control will expect to see the G3 sign off.

[Iceverge]

2 hours ago, Jenki said:

Do you mean just immersion heaters for DHW, or electric boilers?

I've Built several large extensions with Wet UFH and loved the result, so my plan was  250L Thermal store (to eliminate the G3 requirements) also the thermal store should prevent any issues with flow rates on the heat pump.

but this is way down the line so open to more research if you can point me somewhere.

 

 

 

Immersion for DHW. Maybe a Willis heater for UFH like @TerryE's system. 

 

I haven't seen it done but maybe install a large UVC with a coil for ASHP. Then use that coil to take heat from the cylinder heated from immersion. It would give you the option to retrofit an ASHP if that became a more economical option. 

 

We have no G3 in Ireland so I did my own UVC. ( I did a topic somewhere if you search) It's really not too tricky. This man explains all.

 

 

If you have a good plumber they'll check and sign off on your install I'm sure. 

 

Smaller thermal stores like the 250l one you mention work best with high temp heat sources like fossil fuel boilers. However I do like the principle. Maybe a very large coil in tank thermal store (>500l) run at a lower temperature would work. I'm sure some of our plumbing gurus can advise. Infact I'm keen to know myself. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Iceverge]

HOLD PRESS!!

 

No need to reinvent the wheel. Thermal Stores and heat pumps are already a thing.

 

https://www.thenaturalenergycompany.co.uk/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=300

 

Physiologically I like the idea of not keeping 300l of hot water at 3 bar all day every day in an UVC. Relying on over temp and over pressure valves for safety seems like it's an inherently less safe solution than an open vented Thermal store in the case of run away immersion etc. While the case for solar PV over thermal is well proven the thought of being able to pick up a couple of cheap panels and a pump and rig a drainback system is nice. 

 

However I don't know of anyone who uses a thermal store with a heat pump.

 

@Jeremy Harris had issues but I think that was probably because his TS was too small (210l or 250l I think) for an ASHP (needed to be run at high temps for sufficient hot water)  and suffered high heat losses in a very low energy demand house leading to overheating. 

[JohnMo]

7 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

being able to pick up a couple of cheap panels and a pump and rig a drainback system is nice.

 

Just doing that now, already have 3.1kW of PV.  Could do with some water heating in the shoulder months when PV output isn't generating at full capacity.

[saveasteading]

22 hours ago, Jenki said:

guarantees from render manufacturers

We looked at projects in Morayshire, and everything new there had to be 1.5 storey with white render.

 

They call it wet-dash there, which I would have called roughcast. 

But in my experience roughcast is pebbles thrown at a newly cement rendered wall whereas wet dash involves flinging a ready-mix of pebbly mortar at the wall and hoping it sticks.(there are special tools rather than using handfuls)  then painted white.

 

This wetdash idea seems simple and eminently diy, will bridge over board joints, and can be patched if necessary.

There are videos on youtube.

 

Will it stick to an external board? I would think no problem with a cement board.

[ProDave]

9 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

We looked at projects in Morayshire, and everything new there had to be 1.5 storey with white render.

 

They call it wet-dash there, which I would have called roughcast. 

But in my experience roughcast is pebbles thrown at a newly cement rendered wall whereas wet dash involves flinging a ready-mix of pebbly mortar at the wall and hoping it sticks.(there are special tools rather than using handfuls)  then painted white.

 

This wetdash idea seems simple and eminently diy, will bridge over board joints, and can be patched if necessary.

There are videos on youtube.

 

Will it stick to an external board? I would think no problem with a cement board.

Wet dash is usually the cement on the wall mixed up with snowcrete so it is natrually off white, and then the slurry used to "stick" the pebbles is also mixed from snowcrete.  the result is an off white render that never needs painting.

 

While the Highland default is 1.5 storeys and white wet dash walls that is not set in stone and "contemporary" timber clad buildings, often with flat or shallow pitch roofs are not out of the question.  There are 3 such houses near here who had no trouble getting PP.  Where they will not budge is if you try for a full 2 storey house in the countryside.

[JohnMo]

We are in Moray, we had to have slate roof, but we have wood cladding and stone.  And it's single storey.

 

So doesn't have to be ...

[ProDave]

19 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

We are in Moray, we had to have slate roof, but we have wood cladding and stone.  And it's single storey.

 

So doesn't have to be ...

I argued the slate roof thing on the basis there is not another slate roof in sight.  They allowed a Marley concrete tile with a riven finish as a slate substitute.

[saveasteading]

19 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

So doesn't have to be ..

Bad choice of words...not more than 1.5 storeys and looking traditional.

We got a long way towards buying a plot with that spec. Established that the planners seemed to be happy with slate effect tiles.

As ProDave  says, with stone and timber cladding, is yours 'contemporary'.

The Moray (or was it Aberdeenshire) planning guidance is very strong about not having fake masonry effect render at corners and doors. I agree as it looks very suburban.

 

36 minutes ago, ProDave said:

an off white render that never needs painting.

 

Have you done it or seen it done?  How well does it work? 

[JohnMo]

We are in the country, it quite contemporary, but the planners words - fitted in with the vernacular.

 

[ProDave]

48 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Have you done it or seen it done?  How well does it work? 

Got it on our old house.  It looks okay but it is slightly porous so in very wet weather it darkens and looks drab until it dries out.

[SteamyTea]

2 hours ago, Iceverge said:

@Jeremy Harris had issues but I think that was probably because his TS was too small

Don't think he ever had a TS. He had one if those combination cylinders with the F&E built in on top.

 

[SteamyTea]

2 hours ago, saveasteading said:

call it wet-dash there, which I would have called roughcast

Think that is what I have.

I hate it, and now, after 35 years, it is failing.

I want to clad the place, but council have put me in a Heritage Area, so I am (expletive deleted)ed.