Formal Introduction - Highlands New Build

[Jenki]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

I argued the slate roof thing on the basis there is not another slate roof in sight.  They allowed a Marley concrete tile with a riven finish as a slate substitute.

There is a Highland design guidence document, they like slate, but it did offer metal roofing, we tried for metal roofing and cladding, there are numerous on Skye, but my planner wasn't up for it. After numerous back and forth it's was very clear they wanted white render.   We got metal roofing. And cladding on one elevation, I think I could have  got away with cladding the whole house in timber.  Seemed a little archaic. We needed a solution as the purchase was dependent on planning. So ultimately we gave in.

 

[Iceverge]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

Don't think he ever had a TS. He had one if those combination cylinders with the F&E built in on top.

 

I often wonder what useful info I push out by keeping all this nonsense in my brain. 

 

[SteamyTea]

8 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

I often wonder what useful info I push out by keeping all this nonsense in my brain. 

I usually have a good long term memory, but when I went over to see him, he had just put the SA in and the old Combination was still in the spare bedroom.

I know he did some strange stuff with plate heat exchangers to preheat water and recharge the SA.

 

There has been some confusion (certainly in my mind) about what a thermal store actually is.  Seems the term sometimes gets used incorrectly.

 

[Gus Potter]

On 15/01/2022 at 12:08, Jenki said:

 the rural village of Occumster, on the East coast in the Highlands. approx. 12M SW of Wick.  

Jenki

 

Lot's to look forward to.

 

Looks like you are pretty close to the sea so check the plastisol specification regarding corrosion near the sea and where you stand on that re cladding warranty on the pods.

 

All the best.

[saveasteading]

4 hours ago, JohnMo said:

quite contemporary, but the planners words - fitted in with the vernacular.

I remember now, that the planning guidance says 'vernacular' but that they welcome proposals for exemplary modern.

[dpmiller]

 

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Edited January 17, 2022 by dpmiller
double post

[dpmiller]

13 hours ago, Iceverge said:

HOLD PRESS!!

 

No need to reinvent the wheel. Thermal Stores and heat pumps are already a thing.

 

https://www.thenaturalenergycompany.co.uk/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=300

 

Physiologically I like the idea of not keeping 300l of hot water at 3 bar all day every day in an UVC. Relying on over temp and over pressure valves for safety seems like it's an inherently less safe solution than an open vented Thermal store in the case of run away immersion etc. While the case for solar PV over thermal is well proven the thought of being able to pick up a couple of cheap panels and a pump and rig a drainback system is nice. 

 

However I don't know of anyone who uses a thermal store with a heat pump.

 

@Jeremy Harris had issues but I think that was probably because his TS was too small (210l or 250l I think) for an ASHP (needed to be run at high temps for sufficient hot water)  and suffered high heat losses in a very low energy demand house leading to overheating. 

 

Yep, I'm using a TS on the heatpump, all seems to work well enough.

 

But hang on a mo... That Daikin unit seems *very* familiar. Looks like someone in Germany spent a lot of time :ahem: "inspecting" a Harlequin Heatstream tank...

[dpmiller]

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Edited January 17, 2022 by dpmiller
double post

[Iceverge]

It certainly looks similar with connections on the top and a rounded square design.  Do you have the Heatstream @dpmiller? 

 

My only concern is the headstream would run out of puff very quickly with only 210l. I must admit I like the polyethylene casing and stainless steel coils. It sounds very durable. Unfortunately no solid fuel connection is possible which is one of the big advantages of thermal stores if you like burning stuff. 

 

[dpmiller]

@Iceverge no I'd planned around the Heatstream, but multi coil versions were discontinued ( Although RED still use them) and I changed to a bespoke unit from World Heat.

[Jenki]

On 16/01/2022 at 15:49, Iceverge said:

 

Immersion for DHW. Maybe a Willis heater for UFH like @TerryE's system. 

 

I haven't seen it done but maybe install a large UVC with a coil for ASHP. Then use that coil to take heat from the cylinder heated from immersion. It would give you the option to retrofit an ASHP if that became a more economical option. 

I've gone on a bit of a tangent, but the above has got me thinking about heating my two pods, amenity block.  The ideal solution would be a large UVC, ASHP to provide water for showers and UFH. but this is not economical for cash flow. 

So going with 80 / 100 L tank with 2KW immersion for hot water (cheap to buy) and when there being used I'll be being paid

This leaves the heating. I have looked at Oil / IR panels and the thread below, load of ideas.

But I'm leaning to think UFH with biscuit screed and timber floating floor (18SQM), with a Willis Heater might be a good solution, with the option of upgrading to ASHP when finance allow?

 The Pod will be fairly well insulated with good airtightness.

The calculations  are approx.. of 120M pipe @ 0.12L /M so around 15L of water, Lets use 20L.

 so a 3KW heater will raise the temp of water from say 8deg to 40deg in around 20Mins using around 1KWH.  

This is where I get stumped, how do I get a feel for the total cost to run UFH?  the blending valve will raise the water temp so the above calculation doesn't take this into account, and obviously the floor radiator will reduce the return water temp?

Are there calculators that I can use?  

 

The above gets me UFH and Hot water for around £500 / pod.

 

Electricity is the fuel - no gas - no wood.

TIA. Pete

 

 

[Iceverge]

I wouldn't complicate it. The pods once occupied will require very little heating, provided you do an excellent job on airtightness. Put in a fused spur for a small electric heater.  Allow another spur for a split A2A unit if you're really cautious. A timber floor will be comfortable underfoot in any case. 

 

I'd use a large central UVC for the water, heated on E7. Bigger the better as you won't want customers to be running out of water. An alternative might be  a couple of electric showers and an under sink water heater but I have a niggle in my brain about electrical limits. Maybe a friendly sparky can tell me off...…!  

 

I'd have some kind of continuous mechanical ventilation in the pods. Small spaces can get stuff quickly without it. Maybe something like this.

 

https://www.bpcventilation.com/xpelair-simply-silent-contour-cv4

 

For info out set up in a 185m2 passive house is one portable 2kw rad and a 300l direct UVC. It's working fine so far. The payback on anything more complicated was marginal. Maybe an A2A might make sense. I'll know soon. 

 

 

 

[Benguela]

On 17/01/2022 at 07:13, dpmiller said:

 

Yep, I'm using a TS on the heatpump, all seems to work well enough.

 

But hang on a mo... That Daikin unit seems *very* familiar. Looks like someone in Germany spent a lot of time :ahem: "inspecting" a Harlequin Heatstream tank...

Hi @dpmiller, can you tell us a bit more about your heatpump and Thermal Store combination?

 

I've got a bunch of questions:

 

What is your heatpump?

How big is the thermal store?

Do you use the TS to give DHW or space heating or both?

What temperature do you heat the TS to?

How much usable heat do you then get out?

Any economic remarks... is it a money saver?

 

I have a GSHP with a 100litre buffer and I'm also on an Octopus Go tariff. I have this crazy idea that if I run my GSHP during Octopus Go hours, I can heat up a large thermal store and then draw down that warm water into my UFH for the rest of the day.

 

Do you or anyone else have a setup like that?

[saveasteading]

On 16/01/2022 at 22:41, Gus Potter said:

the plastisol specification

 

I am late in seeing this.

 

Gus is absolutely right. Normal plastisol suffers from cut edge peel, so need an application of a special varnish to the ends. They make plastisol in double thickness (still in micron territory) that is supposed to resist this, and this grade is essential within a few miles of the coast.

There are many other coatings available, with some very poor and intended for short-term protection (the agriculture market) and some good, but much thinner than plastisol.

 

Any coating works until it is damaged or worn off, as does the galvanising underneath it. Plastisol is also more forgiving to minor abrasions during construction.

 

Guarantees on the life of cladding are an indication only, as there are always weasel word exclusions so that nobody is liable.

 

the  biggest issue is usually when the sheets are cut on site. They must be cut using shears or a nibbler as this closes the galvanising over the edge. Absolutely they must not use grinders as this not only rips the edge apart but heats the sheet.

 

Seagulls are an issue too, and no coating stands up to their excrement, or their pecking at rubber fillers.

 

On the positive side: if your area experiences  heavy rain on occasions, this cleans off salts etc.

 

Have a look at metal roofs (and walls) around you. It makes trips to industrial estates more interesting.