Where are smoke alarms REQUIRED

[MortarThePoint]

I know where I want to have smoke alarms, but I as wondering where the regulations require them. Reason being is I could fit more discrete battery ones in the rooms that aren't required by regulations.

 

As I understand it, I need to have them "in all circulation spaces that form the escape route and in all rooms or areas that are of high fire risk to the occupants". Now that second bit is open to interpretation.

 

Do building regulations require them in rooms with wood burning stoves. I know CO alarms are required but what about smoke alarms. I want smoke alarms in these rooms, but would prefer more discrete battery ones. 

[JohnMo]

I think the rules in Scotland and England are different, so where are you based?

[MortarThePoint]

Just now, JohnMo said:

I think the rules in Scotland and England are different, so where are you based?

England

[saveasteading]

Recently Scotland has brought in mandatory, linked smoke alarms for every house, old or new. 

As most will be retrofit, there will be a very big market for wireless, so it will be interesting to see if the market develops.

[ProDave]

In what way is a battery alarm "more discrete"?  I would wire for mains ones throughout and stick to one decent make e.g. Aico.

 

Nothing wrong with fitting more than BR's requires, e.g. I fitted one on the utility room.  Tumble dryers have a nasty habit of catching fire and I would like to know if there is a problem long before the flames start licking at the door.

 

Kitchens generally want a heat alarm not a smoke alarm and if there is an open flame appliance, Aico make a handy combined heat and CO alarm in one unit.

[MortarThePoint]

A couple of sources below including from Part B. Looks like hallways and kitchen (though not always) are required.

 

"If your kitchen is not separated from the stairways or circulation routes by a suitable door, then you must also install a compatible heat detector in the kitchen, interlinked with the other smoke detectors positioned as above in the circulation routes" https://www.tameside.gov.uk/buildingcontrol/guidancenotes/note16.pdf

 

 

[MortarThePoint]

6 minutes ago, ProDave said:

In what way is a battery alarm "more discrete"?  I would wire for mains ones throughout and stick to one decent make e.g. Aico.

 

This one is dinky:

https://www.cavius.com/2002-10-year-smoke-alarm/

https://www.cavius.com/cavius-build-in-base-40mm/

[Dudda]

Don't forget you need a CO2 alarm in any room that the flue passes through. eg if you've a bedroom upstairs and the chimney flue is boxed out and passes through this room it also needs a carbon monoxide alarm.

 

As for the type and location I put mains wired Aico alarms in every single room and have LD1 protection in my house. I pay huge attention to detail to ensure everything is as clean, simplified and as designed as possible but I felt the life of me and my family was more important so compromised on smoke alarms and carbon monoxide alarms.

 

Also install these if going the Aico route. They're very useful for false alarms, testing, etc.

 

[MortarThePoint]

4 minutes ago, Dudda said:

Don't forget you need a CO2 alarm in any room that the flue passes through. eg if you've a bedroom upstairs and the chimney flue is boxed out and passes through this room it also needs a carbon monoxide alarm.

 

Interesting, I don't realise that they are required in rooms the chimney passes through. Do you have link for more information about that as I'll need to change my plans slightly.

[willbish]

9 minutes ago, MortarThePoint said:

 

This one is dinky:

https://www.cavius.com/2002-10-year-smoke-alarm/

https://www.cavius.com/cavius-build-in-base-40mm/

It might be dinky but if it only sounds in the room where the fire is, thats near enough pointless.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Dudda said:

Also install these if going the Aico route. They're very useful for false alarms, testing, etc.

 

 

That's looks good. Do you know how the locate switch works? How does it feed back which alarm is activated?

[TonyT]

If I was starting from scratch, I would put them in hallways, habitable rooms, utility rooms, plant rooms, rooms where gas/wood burning devices are located.

[JohnMo]

It not a CO2 alarm you need, it's a CO alarm..  very different, carbon monoxide is what kills you and produced by burning a fuel - CO2 is what you breathe out.  In Scotland you need a CO2 monitor in the main bedroom, but don't think you need that in England.

 

Interesting, Scotland regulations guidance note, specifically exclude the use of combined heat and smoke alarms, as heat alarm are only to be installed in kitchens.  If the alarm is battery powered, the battery cannot be replaceable.  CO alarms do not have to connect fire alarms.

[Mr Punter]

I have mains interlinked detectors with lithium battery backup plus sprinklers in every habitable space and on escape routes.

 

I agree on the Aico ones plus the test / hush / locate control.

 

I am 4 storey.  For small two storey you probably just need a SD in the up and down halls plus a heat in the kitchen.

[willbish]

20 hours ago, willbish said:

 

 

 

21 hours ago, Dudda said:

Also install these if going the Aico route. They're very useful for false alarms, testing, etc.

 

 

That's looks good. Do you know how the locate switch works? How does it feed back which alarm is activated?

 

The locate switch silences all the alarms apart from the activated alarm.

[Adsibob]

Just learning about this after a conversation with our BCO. How much do I need to budget for 9 x LD1 smoke alarms plus 1 heat alarm that are all mains wired and interlinked?

 

[TonyT]

Single storey house/2/3 storey?

What stage is current build?

Look up TLC for cost of detectors , add a drum of 3core and earth for interlinking , some twin and earth for feed to first detector and add labour costs.

[Adsibob]

28 minutes ago, TonyT said:

Single storey house/2/3 storey?

What stage is current build?

Look up TLC for cost of detectors , add a drum of 3core and earth for interlinking , some twin and earth for feed to first detector and add labour costs.

I've already agreed the price for labour and wire. I just need to supply the actual detectors. The TLC site has a few options: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Fire_and_Smoke/Smoke_Alarms_Mains_Lithium/index.html

I guess I'll have to start researching this as well.

[redtop]

On 12/11/2021 at 12:15, Dudda said:

Don't forget you need a CO2 alarm in any room that the flue passes through. eg if you've a bedroom upstairs and the chimney flue is boxed out and passes through this room it also needs a carbon monoxide alarm.

 

As for the type and location I put mains wired Aico alarms in every single room and have LD1 protection in my house. I pay huge attention to detail to ensure everything is as clean, simplified and as designed as possible but I felt the life of me and my family was more important so compromised on smoke alarms and carbon monoxide alarms.

 

Also install these if going the Aico route. They're very useful for false alarms, testing, etc.

 

2nd to aico and this. Mine is also hooked into the sprinkler system

 

[saveasteading]

As we have several months before having to start  the fire /gas alarm installation I am keeping my eye on the  wireless market. Had a targeted ad on facebook with lots of kits from £150 to £300, which looked very promising. 'No wiring' has to be a big cost and time advantage.

[PeterW]

On 12/11/2021 at 12:22, willbish said:

That's looks good. Do you know how the locate switch works? How does it feed back which alarm is activated?

it is wired to the circuit using 3 core and when you press a button it sends a pulse to the Aico alarms that they interpret. 
 

Very nice and simple bit of kit and useful for silencing alarms that are out of reach !

[Dudda]

44 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

As we have several months before having to start  the fire /gas alarm installation I am keeping my eye on the  wireless market. Had a targeted ad on facebook with lots of kits from £150 to £300, which looked very promising. 'No wiring' has to be a big cost and time advantage.

You have to have some wiring as they need power to work. You can't have them 100% battery like 20 years ago. They need to be mains powered with battery backup. 

If going mains powered you may as well have them interlinked and not use wireless. If it's a refurbishment and just taking a power spur from the nearest light then fair enough but if it's a new build I'd consider it madness to not just have them interlinked with a proper fire cable. Fire alarms are supposed to be replaced every 10 years. I know this doesn't happen currently but in the future I think you may have to prove these types of things to get house insurance or rent our a room (airBnB or childminder) for example. Things like Grenfell are having a huge impact on new regulations and standards and more will come. Even if you push this to 15 years having them wire interlinked gives you far more options in the future. I'd expect by then houses will have alarms more like commercial premises where you've a battery in the fire alarm control panel and then it's a lot cheaper to replace the smoke heads as they don't have built in batteries. It's a bit like running data cables now to various locations trying to future proof the house. Can't see why, when you're life might depend on these, that you also wouldn't future proof.

[Marvin]

4 core cable between all smoke alarms= live, nutral, earth, switch live

 

[Nickfromwales]

3 hours ago, PeterW said:

it is wired to the circuit using 3 core and when you press a button it sends a pulse to the Aico alarms that they interpret. 
 

Very nice and simple bit of kit and useful for silencing alarms that are out of reach !

The switch offers those with vaulted ceilings an easy option for test and hush, but I am routinely installing them now on both the first and second floors near sleeping quarters. The locate function actually silences all the detectors EXCEPT the one that has been activated. 
That is vital in a home where detectors are in several locations including plant spaces / compartments where the smoke could be concealed for some time.

The new wired range ( I believe ) will support the wireless locate / test / hush switch. That opens up options for where to locate these, strategically, after moving in or to be able to move them around / add more retrospectively. 

[PeterW]

On 12/11/2021 at 11:40, MortarThePoint said:

I know where I want to have smoke alarms, but I as wondering where the regulations require them. Reason being is I could fit more discrete battery ones in the rooms that aren't required by regulations.

 

As I understand it, I need to have them "in all circulation spaces that form the escape route and in all rooms or areas that are of high fire risk to the occupants". Now that second bit is open to interpretation.

 

Do building regulations require them in rooms with wood burning stoves. I know CO alarms are required but what about smoke alarms. I want smoke alarms in these rooms, but would prefer more discrete battery ones. 

So speak to your BCO now. To meet D2 you need to have hard wired connections between all smoke alarms. Fishing out a new link wire is not easy when your ceilings are up. 

[Mr Punter]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

So speak to your BCO now. To meet D2 you need to have hard wired connections between all smoke alarms. Fishing out a new link wire is not easy when your ceilings are up. 

 

You can get RF ones in the Aico range which I think are considered acceptable.  More money though compared to hard wiring but can get you out of trouble.