My neighbours are stupid AND completely mad

[Adsibob]

Three years ago I knocked on my neighbour’s door to explain that I would be filing a planning application, but before doing so I would welcome any views he had in case he didn’t like anything we were ptoposing, so that we could address any of his concerns prior to filing, in the hope that this would avoid him objecting. He refused to engage (whereas my other neighbour on the other side politely told me they wouldn’t object). Over the next two years they proceeded to object to everything we tried to get approved, including by lying. Eventually we got approval. Today, same neighbour calls me and asks me to render over my brickwork on the part of my extension facing their house because it doesn’t match their house. I tried to politely explain that I had got planning permission for bricks even though most houses in the neighbourhood are rendered with pebbledash and that I wasn’t about to breach my own planning permission to suit my neighbour’s tastes. They were genuinely gobsmacked and started lecturing me that I wasn’t doing the neighbourly thing. Some people are just incredible. The stupidity of the situation is that I can’t see most of the wall that they are complaining about and that if they had taken me up on my offer of consultation at the outset, they could have explained their concern and I could have built it out of blocks rather than facing bricks and then rendered it. In actual fact, none of their objections were about this issue. It was always about the proximity of our first floor extension (which ironically is rendered) to their house. Madness. Knowing my neighbour, they will just keep asking for this. 

[markc]

Sadly we now live in a world of moaners and complainers, you try and do the right thing and they will still find fault with whatever you are doing.

At least you can hold your head up knowing you tried.

[Dave Jones]

something about building that brings out the worst in people. 

[WWilts]

8 hours ago, Adsibob said:

started lecturing me that I wasn’t doing the neighbourly thing

Are they doing the neighbourly thing?
They could be encouraged to reflect on that. What would they do if they were in your position?

Sometimes people feel a sense of entitlement to tell others what to do. The less encouragement they get the better. One worker at a site was said to have called a meddlesome neighbour an unspeakable name. Since then, no more open meddling. But such strong action is probably best left to workers who are here today and somewhere else tomorrow.

Bullies keep bullying until someone turns around and makes them reflect that there is more than one perception of facts. 

[Declan52]

Just tell them they missed their change to engage with you so if they don't like how it looks now then tough. How it looks is what you got permission for and that's how it's going to stay. Stop being nice to people who aren't nice to you.

[Iceverge]

Unfortunately I suspect that unless you call them out on their nonsense that this will continue. 

 

Politely but firmly get your point across the next time they whine. Eyeball to eyeball these people back down more often than not. If they had any real power or influence you wouldn't have gotten planning. 

 

Otherwise enjoy your new house and your pleasant neighbour. 

[Adsibob]

All very helpful advice. Thanks everyone - helps reassure me that they are indeed mad and it is not me.

 

I think what has happened is I have given an inch and they have tried to take a mile. A similar situation happened when I agreed to pause my works for half a day as my neighbour apparently needed to rest before some medical exam and this got interpreted as their unfettered right to demand when my builder should take his lunch break - on an ongoing basis. Anyway, that's another story.

 

But back to this lost inch: Shortly after we got the party wall agreement (PWA) sorted, I realised that the 2 weeks that we were allowed under the PWA to take down the fence and come onto their land for the purposes of building our extension was not going to be nearly enough time. To clarify my extension is entirely on my land but within 2cm of their land as it goes right up to, but not on, the boundary. So to point the bricks I would need to access their land. By that point in time, things were already incredibly difficult with our neighbour as we were making lots of noise, they were complaining several times a day and also failing to understand:

(i) how the party wall system works and what they had signed up to; and

(ii) people are lawfully entitled to make noise to build their extensions.

 

I was concerned that the party wall award required me to reinstate the fence, and doing so might prevent my extension wall from breathing, in that the fence would have to go right up against it. Maybe this concern was misconceived, in that I think I could just reinstate the fence without a gravel board so that the portion of the wall below the DPC can breathe. I also thought that the fence itself might not be able to breathe and would rot more quickly in that position, and as I'm responsible for the fence they would bug me more often than they do already to replace it more regularly.

 

So I suggested that perhaps instead of reinstating the fence as strictly required by the PWA, I could get their agreement to start the fence from where my extension finishes and instead affix some trellis to my extension wall so that they could have a couple of non-invasive creeping plants along my wall. Nothing was decided but they liked this idea and we agreed we would revisit the position once the extension was finished. I guess they had assumed the wall would be rendered, without actually studying the details of my plans as approved by the council (and as provided to them originally in 2018 which also showed they were to be exposed brick).

 

They now consider that point in time has come (although it hasn't really, as we're not finished yet, but I guess most of the externals are done).  

 

So I need to decide what to do about the fence, as they could insist I reinstate it along the wall since this is their right under the PWA, or I could negotiate a different agreement. But rendering the wall is madness, even if they do offer to pay for it, because any other neighbour could complain that the wall is not in keeping with the plans and the Council are mad enough that they might uphold that complaint. Basically, everyone is mad.

 

 

[SteamyTea]

Think of a number, say the value of your property, double it, then add your birthday as a laugh.

This will be a big number.

Then say to your neighbour, they can buy your place for this much money, and read the number out.

[James Newport]

Reinstate the fence with chainlink. Satisfies the agreement to reinstate a fence, removes your worry about the wall not being able to breathe, and all your lovely bricks are still exposed for their viewing pleasure. 

[Ferdinand]

I haven't followed the saga.

 

But on the render / brickwork thing, you could just point out that the planning permission means that you can't render it without a further application - which I think is true. And perhaps that they could have made the comment then when they had the opportunnity.

 

Can you trade that off for something else?

 

And the chainlink fence sounds a good idea.

 

Ferdinand

 

[Adsibob]

57 minutes ago, James Newport said:

Reinstate the fence with chainlink. Satisfies the agreement to reinstate a fence, removes your worry about the wall not being able to breathe, and all your lovely bricks are still exposed for their viewing pleasure. 

This made me laugh. But more seriously, I think they'd have a reasonable argument that "reinstate" means to put back or establish again as it was before. So as it was a wooden fence, I'd probably have to reinstate a wooden fence.

[Adsibob]

18 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

on the render / brickwork thing, you could just point out that the planning permission means that you can't render it without a further application - which I think is true.

I made this exact point to them on the phone last night. In response, they said "nobody would complain about a rendered wall" and I replied "this is very subjective, I don't like render which is why I applied for permission to have brick, whereas you don't like brick, whose to say what everyone else with a view of my wall will think". They just didn't understand this. They are luddites.

Honestly, some of the objections we had from other neighbours were so far fetched that god only knows what someone might complain about. 

21 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Can you trade that off for something else?

Well as it happens, this same neighbour has various leylandii in their garden growing to about 14m (I'm not exaggerating, their leylandii are taller than our house) and I could ask them to get rid of them. But... having researched the position I'm fairly confident I can force them to cut down their leylandii to 2m tall, as two leylandii growing next too each other along a boundary are caught by the definition of a "high hedge" in Part 8 of the Anti Social Behaviour Act 2003, and so I could just write to them separately about that and if they don't cut them down complain to the council. So my current inclination is not to ask for that as a quid pro quo, but maybe I should. I don't know...

[dangti6]

These people need to be handled firmly. May upset them as often these people don't like it when they aren't in control , but you need to make it clear to them so they don't believe they can wear you down to giving in by continuing to raise it.

 

They may well stop engaging with you if it does sink in that they simply will not get their way, but that's their call. 

 

If you're now ready to sort the fence I would probably knock and say you are going to extend the fence from the corner of the extension and 'remember we previously discussed the trellis against the wall - is that still something you would like - nb I am not going to render that wall and that is final, but I am prepared to add a trellis'.

 

And keep the leylandii tit for tat in your back pocket.

 

 

[Ferdinand]

2 hours ago, Adsibob said:

I made this exact point to them on the phone last night. In response, they said "nobody would complain about a rendered wall" and I replied "this is very subjective, I don't like render which is why I applied for permission to have brick, whereas you don't like brick, whose to say what everyone else with a view of my wall will think". They just didn't understand this. They are luddites.

Honestly, some of the objections we had from other neighbours were so far fetched that god only knows what someone might complain about. 

Well as it happens, this same neighbour has various leylandii in their garden growing to about 14m (I'm not exaggerating, their leylandii are taller than our house) and I could ask them to get rid of them. But... having researched the position I'm fairly confident I can force them to cut down their leylandii to 2m tall, as two leylandii growing next too each other along a boundary are caught by the definition of a "high hedge" in Part 8 of the Anti Social Behaviour Act 2003, and so I could just write to them separately about that and if they don't cut them down complain to the council. So my current inclination is not to ask for that as a quid pro quo, but maybe I should. I don't know...

 

High hedge complaints usually have a large fee attached for the complainer.

 

Like £500.

 

Check it for your council.

[Ferdinand]

36 minutes ago, dangti6 said:

These people need to be handled firmly. May upset them as often these people don't like it when they aren't in control , but you need to make it clear to them so they don't believe they can wear you down to giving in by continuing to raise it.

 

They may well stop engaging with you if it does sink in that they simply will not get their way, but that's their call. 

 

If you're now ready to sort the fence I would probably knock and say you are going to extend the fence from the corner of the extension and 'remember we previously discussed the trellis against the wall - is that still something you would like - nb I am not going to render that wall and that is final, but I am prepared to add a trellis'.

 

And keep the leylandii tit for tat in your back pocket.

 

 

 

On the fence if the face of the wall is along the boundary, you physically can't put one in as it will be in their land ?.

 

And you can't put it up tight as presumably there are foundations sticking out ?

 

Tbh your trellis idea sounds really good.

 

36 minutes ago, dangti6 said:

These people need to be handled firmly.

 

Where's Barbara Woodhouse when you need her?

 

OK. Here's how to do  it  for a Friday PM.

 

 

 

 

[SteamyTea]

2 hours ago, Adsibob said:

Well as it happens, this same neighbour has various leylandii in their garden growing to about 14m (I'm not exaggerating, their leylandii are taller than our house) and I could ask them to get rid of them. But... having researched the position I'm fairly confident I can force them to cut down their leylandii to 2m tall, as two leylandii growing next too each other along a boundary are caught by the definition of a "high hedge" in Part 8 of the Anti Social Behaviour Act 2003, and so I could just write to them separately about that and if they don't cut them down complain to the council. So my current inclination is not to ask for that as a quid pro quo, but maybe I should. I don't know...

Don't negotiate a position on something they have to do anyway.

 

Just carry on as normal, do what you think is best/right, and ignore them.

[Pocster]

16 hours ago, Adsibob said:

Three years ago I knocked on my neighbour’s door to explain that I would be filing a planning application, but before doing so I would welcome any views he had in case he didn’t like anything we were ptoposing

That’s where you went wrong . (expletive deleted) ‘em and just put the application in . They are going to hate it and object anyway . They will hate you and not talk to you . They will get the enforcement council guy out on any whim . No one in the area will ever talk to you .

welcome to my world - and I love it !

 

Winner , winner , chicken dinner 

[Pocster]

7 hours ago, Declan52 said:

Just tell them they missed their change to engage with you so if they don't like how it looks now then tough. How it looks is what you got permission for and that's how it's going to stay. Stop being nice to people who aren't nice to you.

I find telling neighbours to “ get (expletive deleted)ed “ shortens the conversation considerably 

[Makeitstop]

Yeh, it would be Foxtrot Oscar from me I'm afraid.

 

Tried being reasonable and considerate, but it was always a wasted effort on these numpties.

 

Just to add..... you did the right thing and should be commended for that, but stop it now and avoid / ignore the fools.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Makeitstop

[cowsgomoo]

If anyone ever was wondering how unhinged their neighbours are, file a planning application. 

[paul evenden]

‘The finest form

of defence is attack’

clauswitz

A neighbour declared total war on me over an application I submitted.

I did everything right, he repeatedly lied.

Then he died of a heart attack.

oh dear what a pity never mind.

then our architect got everything we had taken out to placate him put back in and we built out and sold on.

next………

[Adsibob]

45 minutes ago, paul evenden said:

‘The finest form

of defence is attack’

clauswitz

A neighbour declared total war on me over an application I submitted.

I did everything right, he repeatedly lied.

Then he died of a heart attack.

oh dear what a pity never mind.

then our architect got everything we had taken out to placate him put back in and we built out and sold on.

next………

I would absolutely love it if my neighbour died (from natural causes of course).

[Nickfromwales]

On 29/12/2021 at 22:37, Adsibob said:

I would absolutely love it if my neighbour died (from natural causes of course).

All I hear of is neighbours being assholes, happens lots of times, sadly.

Green-eyed monsters or just utterly miserable bastards each one of them.

 

For some, death is a convenient end, but, ultimately, the only end that would ever be arrived at for peace to be restored. 
 

These think that perpetuating misery as a pastime is acceptable. What’s wrong with just getting along? 

[SteamyTea]

48 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

What’s wrong with just getting along? 

Take it you have never had twats as neighbours.

 

A few years ago, had a small time drug dealer as a neighbour. When they eventually got thrown out by the landlord for being obnoxious, the real evil one said 'no one ever said anything to us'.

The English don't. Silence is not acceptance.

 

There was also the case that the other, slightly less evil one was a convicted arsonist. Got locked up for it a second time not long after leaving.

Edited March 1, 2023 by SteamyTea

[Pocster]

59 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

All I hear of is neighbours being assholes, happens lots of times, sadly.

Green-eyed monsters or just utterly miserable bastards each one of them.

 

For some, death is a convenient end, but, ultimately, the only end that would ever be arrived at for peace to be restored. 
 

These think that perpetuating misery as a pastime is acceptable. What’s wrong with just getting along? 

Next to your burger van your neighbors are obviously “ nice “ . When you have malicious (expletive deleted)ing twat (expletive deleted) that should be (expletive deleted)ec  backwards , hung on a cross and (expletive deleted) washed with the devils spewed outbursts - then you will understand .

Edited March 1, 2023 by pocster