Hello all. New build ICF house - 4 years on and need help!

[Peg n Bru]

Hi all. We have been aiming to build an ICF house and have been going nearly 4 years now and have come to a complete standstill. What with very slow architects, very slow planning, Covid, discovering the house has been designed too big for the plot and massively over budget, we find ourselves with a hole in the ground and being in dispute with the professionals. We have read on the forum of others in similar circumstances where the architect has not kept to budget and are left with a house that cannot be built. 

 

In short, we are in need of a revamped design that is smaller, very simple, no fancy frills, that is within budget and can be built quickly. More of a long box shape (we will have a basement with 2 floors on top). Any advice on the simplest design to keep costs down would be great. We have lost trust in many of the professionals we have been involved with and just want to leave it all behind and get something done. We are living in temporary accommodation on site and heading for the Winter and are bracing ourselves for that! 

 

Looking at other posts quite a few have recommended doing a design yourself and then getting someone to draw up the design for planning - not an architect, but someone else. We have come up with a design ourselves scaling everything down and making it simpler, but we need to know if it will work and to get plans drawn up. Can anyone recommend a way forward, maybe even someone who can do these drawings? We are based about 10 miles south of Birmingham. It would be good to find someone used to working with ICF.

 

We are contacting ICF builders as our original builders are now booked up. Someone on this forum mentioned using a design and build service as this may be a more joined up way of doing things. Any thoughts on that? Anything to keep costs down and get through planning as speedily as possible.

 

We're feeling a little desperate as many avenues we go down end up being dead ends or we don't feel we can trust people. We've thought about kit houses, but experiences using these have been very mixed on the forum. What we don't want is to go from the frying pan into the fire. I don't think our mental and physical health can stand it!! Sometimes you think why did we ever start this, but we are where we are and I'm sure it'll work out in the end! 

 

Any recommendations would be gratefully received. Thanks!!

[ToughButterCup]

13 minutes ago, Peg n Bru said:

... we need to know if it will work and to get plans drawn up ... feeling a little desperate as many avenues we go down end up being dead ends or we don't feel we can trust people ... but we are where we are...

 

Welcome. You are among friends here: unqualified but interested and bearing the scars of a good few years' building experience between us.  Yes, you are where you are. I'd venture to say that every single person posting (rather than lurking) knows exactly what you mean.

 

Your post begs many questions. Help us with a bit more detail.

• Can you post the plans, and a site plan please?
• Can you give us more of an idea of what you mean by  '... left with a hole in the ground.....'  (photos)
• Exactly where are you in the Planning Permssion  cycle ? '... get through planning as speedily as possible....' Please tell us you haven't started building without Planning Permission. As written , it sounds as if you may have  (temporary accomodation... living on site ... hole in the ground... )

Now's the time for a calm, detailed  look at the situation. We'll help you do that.

Ian

 

[Declan52]

 Have you any actual foundations built or is it just a bare striped back plot??

Get as many quotes as possible for all the different available build methods. Traditional brick block, timber frame and ICF. Don't ever count any in or out till you have all the options in front of you. Then go through them and make the pros and cons of each and somehow pick a winner. 

As above post the plans if possible and blank out any personal details on the plans.

[Simon R]

Sorry to hear you've had such a torrid time so far. A self build is stressful enough when things go reasonably well.

One additional point not mentioned is CIL exemption. Do you have this in place, you really need to have it in place before you even start clearing the site. If you don't have it contact your council and plead your case, they may be sympathetic. On our project the architect was probably the least value for money, mainly down to high hourly fees and poor communication. I've just used a architectural draftsman who's been really good value, handled planning, structural calcs etc, (robin@lowmasdesigns.com) he's on the south coast so  may not be able to help you. Google 'Architectural Services' for your area for people providing this kind of service. You do need to get the design and planning sorted before going forward.

[ProDave]

This may not be what you want to hear, but you want cheap to build, then ditch the basement.  The basement will cost more to build per square metre than the above ground storeys.

 

 

[Pocster]

31 minutes ago, ProDave said:

This may not be what you want to hear, but you want cheap to build, then ditch the basement.  The basement will cost more to build per square metre than the above ground storeys.

 

 

This is of course true . @Peg n Bru do you plan doing any of the work yourself ? . It will take much longer ?? ; but your labour costs are zero .

[Thorfun]

4 hours ago, ProDave said:

then ditch the basement

+1 to this. we are having a basement built (just nearing the end of that) but it will end up being about 1/3 of the total cost of the build.

[Thorfun]

3 hours ago, pocster said:

This is of course true . @Peg n Bru do you plan doing any of the work yourself ? . It will take much longer ?? ; but your labour costs are zero .

@pocster speaks words of wisdom here. even if you can't do any of the labour yourself then you could save a lot of money by project managing the build and using subbies to do the work. could save at least 20% over using a main contractor.

[Pocster]

9 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

@pocster speaks words of wisdom here. even if you can't do any of the labour yourself then you could save a lot of money by project managing the build and using subbies to do the work. could save at least 20% over using a main contractor.

Or you could do everything like me ( yr 8 at the moment) but save literally 100’s of K .

 

[Moonshine]

8 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

+1 to this. we are having a basement built (just nearing the end of that) but it will end up being about 1/3 of the total cost of the build.

 

+2 to the basement

 

I am building into a slopped site and its a 3 sided basement, i knew that the costs for it would be high, but its the pain in the arse factor to also account for. Any contractor looking at it will add a lot of risk to the job.

 

If you can, for cost savings ditching the basement as its adds significant costs to any build.

 

I can't see why anyone who's site isn't sloped or isn't in the middle of London would want to do a basement from scratch

 

@Thorfun why did you go down that route?

 

 

[Pocster]

Doing your own basement is *massively* cheaper ….

[Thorfun]

4 hours ago, Moonshine said:

 

@Thorfun why did you go down that route?

 

planning wouldn't give us a bigger property above ground as it would've been substantially bigger than the existing property. so my 'fun' rooms had to go somewhere and so a basement it was. plus I've always wanted a basement. ?

[Bonner]

14 hours ago, Thorfun said:

we are having a basement built (just nearing the end of that) but it will end up being about 1/3 of the total cost of the build.

 

Isn't it normally 1/3 of the area of a house ? 

[Thorfun]

32 minutes ago, Bonner said:

 

Isn't it normally 1/3 of the area of a house ? 

I guess if you're building a simple rectangle then yes. but our architect designed something a little different and we have above ground structures that aren't above the basement so it's a little less than 1/3. more like 25% of the total area.

[Pocster]

1 hour ago, Bonner said:

 

Isn't it normally 1/3 of the area of a house ? 

Mines about 70% of the total build ?

[Mr Punter]

Thee are lots of people who claim a basement is cheap to build as it doubles as foundations.  I do not agree with them.  Excavation, retaining walls, stairs, fire risk, tanking / damp proofing, muckaway, natural light and ventilation are all issues that are simple to deal with on a 2 storey house but a PITA with a basement.

[Pocster]

1 hour ago, Mr Punter said:

Thee are lots of people who claim a basement is cheap to build as it doubles as foundations.  I do not agree with them.  Excavation, retaining walls, stairs, fire risk, tanking / damp proofing, muckaway, natural light and ventilation are all issues that are simple to deal with on a 2 storey house but a PITA with a basement.

I think though you need to take into account the value it adds to the property.

What I mean is there’s probably little point adding a basement to a house thats market value is 400k . But if your build has a value of 1 million it might be worth it .

Guess it’s an extreme version of never spend more than 10% of the value of the property on the kitchen .

What added equity does a basement add ? . *Always* assume you will sell the property one day .

Find a good estate agent and see what the ceiling price is in the area . Is it an affluent area ? . Good schools nearby ? ( hence larger properties preferred ) .

So many factors to consider .

A basement living is like a freebie as planning usually has little to object too .

Edited August 19, 2021 by pocster

[Donegalsd]

We realised that our original plan of an L- shaped two single storey pitched roofs connected by a flat roof section was too expensive right at the start of the 1st lockdown (about a week before we were going to start foundations).

 

We told the builder we were pausing, we went back to the planners with a simple two storey long - single room deep - house. They agreed in principle it was fine and we went back to planning.

 

If you are still relatively early in the build process you can completely redesign. A simple 2 storey rectangle, no dormers, no roof protrusions, airtight barrier above the ceiling in the first floor is always going to be the cheapest design.

 

We had an architect, he has been great but communication can be slow. I do see the attraction in a design-build package. Our timber-frame had to be reinforced with steel (after the design stage) not the end of the world but it wasn't costed in original estimate. 

 

A design build wouldn't have had that problem but may give a more generic design.

 

Timber-frame goes up quick and there are plenty of design-biild companies.

 

Do you really need 3 stories?

 

I decided to build a smaller house to have a smaller mortgage and be able to enjoy working a little less and spending time with my kids.

[Kelvin]

On this last point from Donegalsd. We have the budget, without a mortgage, to build something far larger more grand more bespoke but decided early on not to do this because we want the freedom to enjoy our 50s and 60s while we are fit and able. 

 

Instead we are going with a kit house from a supplier. We’ve been to see a few of them  and we love them. There’s plenty of scope within their designs to make it your own and we’ve made quite a few changes to the basic design. What we will do is spec up the interior more. We will end up with a beautiful house in a beautiful plot for a reasonable cost without going all Grand Design about it. 

[SteamyTea]

I am always a little confused when people talk about a 'nice looking house'.

Do they mean nice inside of outside, and that is before practicalities start, you my have a round bed and a round bath, but not a round bedroom or bathroom.

There is a reason that houses look like boxes, it is practical, sensible and cheaper to build.  Don't muck about with a complicated roof, avoid chimneys and make sure it has one side pointing south, then load it up with integrated PV.  If the thought of that look horrifies you, I shall point out that half the time it is dark, and over a year, you will probably spend less than 50 hours actually looking at it.

My Aunt, in Canada, has a basement with one side open.  It is dark and miserable, and the view out of the open side is tree trunks.  It is a type ex pats house, brick faced.  You can tell all the English ex pats houses in her street (the poshest street in Halifax) because they have the same brick facing.  An Arad has a place that is a white stone with quarts in it.  It sparkles.

 

Stick to the old saying 'KISS'.  You can't go wrong.

[Marvin]

Hi Peg n Bru

 

You should be very proud of your decision not to carry on with the wrong thing at the wrong cost.

 

Too many times I have kept digging when already in a hole.

 

When dealing with client requirements I always consider the following:

 

Only set out to build a building that is 75% of your budget, if you do not have detailed info but best estimates, if you want to avoid sleepness nights. (Espically at present)

 

Is this a forever house. If so prepare for less-abled access to everything. Wider doors to the whole house say extra 2k. 1 month in care home because access in your home is no good 5k.

 

I would aim for level access from kerb side through home and into back garden.

 

Other items need to be future proofed. We have a ensuite that can be altered for wheelchair access although you wouldn't know it.

 

Excavating for a basement comes under the heading of the Dark Art. You never know what's down there, espically if the history of the ground is not known. This usually blows budgets.... and if it doesn't think yourself lucky.

 

As the build goes on keep a rough budget. Know how much you are over budget. Know what you can save money on if you have to.

 

Have a good look at what you think you want and what you need. 3 ensuites sounds great until you have to clean them.

 

Roughly measure the floor area of the building. Is this too big or too small compared with other similar homes. You can check on rightmove for floor areas.

 

Ensure the airtightness and thermal resistance are good. You only pay for the once. Heating every year and the cost keeps rising...

 

Good luck.

 

M

 

[Haylingbilly]

Definitely a good decision to stop at this point and reassess. I would suggest using an architectural technician rather than an architect - they are typically 1/3 the price.

 

On our last build we built a basement out of ICF and the additional costs depend on quite a number of things such as

• ground conditions
• space around the build for battering back, rather than temporary supports - space also enables you to tank externally rather than internally
• if you have anywhere to dispose of the material you dig out
• how much natural light you want to get down there
• how rectangular the design is and whether you want large open plan spaces

 

If we could have built the same footprint above ground rather than 75sqm of it being basement we would have saved around £60k - ie rather than being £380k for a total of 190sqm it would have been £320k.

 

If you are going to build a basement, then I am not sure there is a more cost effective way than doing it in ICF.

 

 

 

[RK6]

Sounds like a rough ride, but you’re in the right place for advice. Loads of very helpful folks in here!

 

+3 on the basement front. I’m still in the design phase of my project, but my architect is already trying to usher me toward an above ground garage block as he knows how pricey basement builds can be. If cost is a big concern, I’d scratch that off and give yourself some room to breathe.