Soil pipe across neighbour land broken by them

[ashthekid]

During the middle of our own conversion project the neighbouring property have just started their own extension and upon digging the foundations they have broken and damaged our main soil pipe which runs through their property before connecting to the mains drain. Their builder is claiming the pipe is not fit for purpose for our project and I believe the building inspector has confirms this(although not 100% yet as Alice only just been told about it).

 

Where do I stand here? Does the neighbour have to pay to repair or if what they are saying is true and it’s not fit for purpose do I have to pay for it to be repaired and made fit for purpose?

 

Apparently the gradient run on it isn’t great despite our project being underway for 12 months without any sewage issues whatsoever on site with a toilet, sink and all rainwater being connected to this mains outlet. It does seem a little bit if a coincidence that the problem has only studied since the pipe was broken into by accident. 
 

[ProDave]

When their garden starts to fill with your sewage, I am sure they will think about fixing it.

[saveasteading]

They break, it they fix it, promptly and  properly. Otherwise where does your sewage go?

 

If it isn't suitable for your new project  then that is an entirely different matter, and not their problem.

 

Would need to know more to help with the suitability for your works.

 

Any clues about why it is not appropriate?  

[Declan52]

Did you put this pipe in recently during your building work or has it been there for years???

 

[TonyT]

The builder is at it to cover his costs for his error.

 

 

[ashthekid]

We have our only manhole internally sadly and it’s right up against our boundary wall. The pipe directly from my boundary wall that runs through the neighbours patio and then through their property before connecting has been there for years and we are probably talking many many years as our property is very old. 
All the pipework within our boundary walls is brand new and been laid by our builder. 
 

The neighbours builder claims it doesn’t have the adequate gradient run from our manhole so it’s likely to block up and come back towards us. This is despite us having no issues whatsoever during the course of our conversion works with any blockages or backup. It all seems to drain away ok. 
 

My initial thoughts were well they broke it so they should fix it. Seems logical.

[DragsterDriver]

They should replace it. It’s not a big job unless they’ve done something really daft.

 

I presume you’re still using it while they decide what to do?

[ashthekid]

I tested it this morning and everything disappeared through to their side and nothing came back. 
Whether they are referring to the age or size of the pipe as well I guess I will find out on Monday. 
 

[ProDave]

It's probably a clay pipe they have broken then and don't know how to fix it?

[LA3222]

I'd be inclined to start sending some Mr Whippys through, may get them to rethink their strategy and fix it schnell machen?‍♂️

[James Newport]

If it’s a shared pipe it might be the responsibility of the water company these days - that’s what a letter I had from welsh water a couple of years ago said. 

[Temp]

+1

 

@ashthekid Looks like  you are the house with blue door. Neighbour is the house with red door. Water co is responsible for the red pipes, you the purple bit to your boundary only.

 

https://draindetectives.co.uk/blog/who-is-responsible-for-drains/

 

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Temp

[ashthekid]

@Temp that is very interesting. I wonder if the neighbours are aware of that. 
I wonder if it matters that the pipe leaves our boundary and into the neighbours back patio before then passing underneath their property to the main road. 
That illustration shows it out front by the public pavement. 

[joe90]

4 hours ago, ProDave said:

When their garden starts to fill with your sewage, I am sure they will think about fixing it.

+1, order a few curry’s! ?. A few years ago my sisters garden started filling with poo from neighbours, (badly designed shared sewer) the water board initially refused to respond, she called environmental health and they “instructed” the water board to attend or be summoned, they were there within hours ?

[Temp]

21 minutes ago, ashthekid said:

@Temp that is very interesting. I wonder if the neighbours are aware of that. 
I wonder if it matters that the pipe leaves our boundary and into the neighbours back patio before then passing underneath their property to the main road. 
That illustration shows it out front by the public pavement. 

 

..but still inside the dotted property boundary.

 

I won't matter if the pipes are in front or back gardens or under the house itself, just if they are inside or outside the property boundary.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Temp

[PeterW]

Just had something very similar on a property near me and the builder went through a lateral drain whilst digging founds and didn’t spot it, and pouring the foundation they ended up with concrete in the drains. Cost £18,000 to resolve…

 

Bigger concern is that your neighbour is digging over or near a lateral drain or sewer. If that is the case they need a build over agreement and your neighbour will need to do that at their cost not yours. Minimum will be repair and lintels, worst case is they need to move the drain or re-lay it. 

[Temp]

@ashthekid The responsibility or shared pipes changed from the neighbour (home owner) to the water co in 2011. There is a guide here with a lot more example illustrations..

 

https://www.water.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Private-Sewer-Transfer-Water-UK-Template.pdf

Edited August 14, 2021 by Temp

[DragsterDriver]

What concerns me is what exactly they’ve done? Because it’s an easy repair, hardest bit is going and collecting a couple of fittings.

[saveasteading]

Photo?

[ashthekid]

So it turns out the pipe hasn’t been broken itself. It’s the gradient run that leads to the neighbours manhole and then that run from theirs to the following neighbour that is the issue. It’s almost flat but has existed for many years.
The neighbour’s builder has admitted it’s not our fault or responsibility but that it has to be dealt with and sorted in order for their Building Control to sign off on it. All of our groundworks have been laid and concreted in(all leading to this only manhole) and there was not a problem with anything going down the existing manhole before, this is purely a “fit for purpose” issue that’s been uncovered. 
The builder has had he will need to speak to Building Control again and most likely the Water Company to see what they suggest as it may very well be their responsibility to fix it but he said the options won’t be great for me as it could mean:

1) installing a pump at my end

2) rerouting all of our pipework directly to the street which would be a nightmare

3) reroute our waste to a tank in our back garden

 

Surely I would not be financially responsible for any of these options? The Water Company have to do it don’t they?

[Temp]

The builder must get the water company involved. It's not his pipe to mess with. You could consider contacting them yourself.

 

40 minutes ago, ashthekid said:

It’s the gradient run that leads to the neighbours manhole and then that run from theirs to the following neighbour that is the issue.

 

I don't think he can just steal all the fall causing your drains to stop working. Check both title deeds for any explicit rights. You may have other rights if none in the deeds.

 

Why can't he leave the existing drain in place and connect his new pipe into a new nanhole near his downhill boundary? That would get him all the fall without affecting you.

[dangti6]

Do you have the sewerage plans from when you purchased the property? There's a chance the water company won't have it marked on their plans, but worth enquiring.  

 

 

[Temp]

So I think this is your situation..

 

[Temp]

16 minutes ago, dangti6 said:

Do you have the sewerage plans from when you purchased the property? There's a chance the water company won't have it marked on their plans, but worth enquiring.  

 

 

 

I think worth notifying them of "problematic work on a shared drain that you believe the water company own". I think it will be easier to get the right thing done while there is still work going on site. Once its all covered up they will see it as your problem and since you own your drains it will be down to you to fix.

[Carrerahill]

On 14/08/2021 at 19:04, ashthekid said:

During the middle of our own conversion project the neighbouring property have just started their own extension and upon digging the foundations they have broken and damaged our main soil pipe which runs through their property before connecting to the mains drain. Their builder is claiming the pipe is not fit for purpose for our project and I believe the building inspector has confirms this(although not 100% yet as Alice only just been told about it).

 

Where do I stand here? Does the neighbour have to pay to repair or if what they are saying is true and it’s not fit for purpose do I have to pay for it to be repaired and made fit for purpose?

 

Apparently the gradient run on it isn’t great despite our project being underway for 12 months without any sewage issues whatsoever on site with a toilet, sink and all rainwater being connected to this mains outlet. It does seem a little bit if a coincidence that the problem has only studied since the pipe was broken into by accident. 
 

It is not your soil pipe as soon as it leaves your boundary, it becomes a sewer after this point and is the responsibility of the water board.

 

You have the right to continue to discharge via this pipe, you can continue to and it is their responsibility to resolve. You can wash your hands of this situation. 

 

Why is the pipe not fit for purpose? Did it work before? 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Carrerahill