Onoff Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 (edited) I just dug a 13m long trench, 700mm deep and 100-150mm wide. A mattock is invaluable and then some. Was using the flat to lift the spoil at the end. Less than my boots width. That was in clay. For digging straight down by hand, a relatively small hole then you won't go far wrong with one of these pronged digging tools followed by the digging spoons. Great too for general tilling of garden beds. Mine I think is Wilkinson Sword and has flat blade prongs. Don't think they make them any longer. This sort of thing but I'd say mine is more robust with the 4 heavy duty blades instead of round prongs: (Designed I think original for the elderly so save them bending etc). Edited March 14, 2021 by Onoff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted March 14, 2021 Author Share Posted March 14, 2021 (edited) I have the gardener sorted out to do it if I need it done. He said he tends to dig a round hole so he can stand centrally in it and rotate. I explained the pipe is under pressure which is a safety issue. He was not concerned. He does a lot of work on large corporate sites. As we surveyed the plot we noted that many tree stumps seem to be directly above the water main. Probably will not pull them as was the original plan just in case. Edited March 14, 2021 by AliG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 11 minutes ago, AliG said: Probably will not pull them as was the original plan just in case. stump grinder ? Plenty of u tube vids on how to get rid of stumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 If this pips is able to be damaged by a man with a shovel hand digging a hole, then it is defective. I would not worry about that. I would not want to try "locating" it with a digger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted March 14, 2021 Author Share Posted March 14, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, joe90 said: stump grinder That would do the job nicely. They are only around1m from the fence so might end up surrounded by bushes and not an issue, I was just assuming it was easier to get rid whilst we graded the site. 9 minutes ago, ProDave said: If this pips is able to be damaged by a man with a shovel hand digging a hole, then it is defective. I would not worry about that. I would not want to try "locating" it with a digger. So we have a location probably accurate to within +/-100mm from the scan. So far SW say they won't accept that. We may try again with this information next week, whilst digging the hole anyway, to save time If they do not agree. Their "asset protection policy" goes into considerable length about how they will not agree to work being done above their pipes you cannot do work without their permission etc. I have actually asked two lawyers what powers SW have, one a planing lawyer and one who did the conveyancing on the plot. Neither knew. As far as I am concerned SW's regulations do not carry the force of law and we can do whatever we like on our land without their permission or unless they want to get a court order. The only thing in the titles is that we cannot build within 6ft of the pipes nothing about any of the other regs they want to enforce. It is also not clear to me how they can enforce all these requirements without paying anything towards the cost. The SE did, however, say they may refuse to connect us to the network if we do not comply. I need to check that because there are very explicit laws re that and they have already told us that they have capacity to connect us. Edited March 14, 2021 by AliG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA3222 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 15 minutes ago, AliG said: That would do the job nicely. They are only around1m from the fence so might end up surrounded by bushes and not an issue, I was just assuming it was easier to get rid whilst we graded the site. So we have a location probably accurate to within +/-100mm from the scan. So far SW say they won't accept that. We may try again with this information next week, whilst digging the hole anyway, to save time If they do not agree. Their "asset protection policy" goes into considerable length about how they will not agree to work being done above their pipes you cannot do work without their permission etc. I have actually asked two lawyers what powers SW have, one a planing lawyer and one who did the conveyancing on the plot. Neither knew. As far as I am concerned SW's regulations do not carry the force of law and we can do whatever we like on our land without their permission or unless they want to get a court order. The only thing in the titles is that we cannot build within 6ft of the pipes nothing about any of the other regs they want to enforce. It is also not clear to me how they can enforce all these requirements without paying anything towards the cost. The SE did, however, say they may refuse to connect us to the network if we do not comply. I need to check that because there are very explicit laws re that and they have already told us that they have capacity to connect us. Stop messing around with lawyers and get the gardener to dig a hole. Job done. You know the answer to your question ref proximity then. Also, I want to see this damn pipe now...it is becoming infamous. Lots of pics please? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 It's your land and as part of your build you needed to dig a trench to put in an electric cable/ drainage pipe/ sewer pipe/ and while doing this as luck would have it you came across the mystery pipe. You just take your time and don't be driving a pick into the ground. Just remove 50mm each time when you get over 700mm down and you will soon find it without breaking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 Yes another one who wants to see the pictures. When they prohibit "work" above their assets I am sure they are worried about mechanical diggers or building works, not a gardener doing an "archaeological dig" to carefully locate the pipe. I guess the plan is to locate the pipe, mark it accurately, then mark the 6ft away from it line and see if that gives you enough room to do what you want? If what you want to do ends up slightly less than 6 feet would they let you put foundations built 6ft away and then a cantilevered build so the build might not be 6ft away but all the load imposed by it would be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Construction Channel Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 Fwiw i dug down to find our water main on the other side of the road where i needed it connecting. Put a fence post on it and loosely filled it back in. Everyone involved with the pipe said i was a very bad boy and should never do such a thing again BUT it was very helpful and saved all of them a lot of time and effort. Pipe is now connected and no one got taken to court 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, Construction Channel said: Fwiw i dug down to find our water main on the other side of the road where i needed it connecting. Put a fence post on it and loosely filled it back in. Everyone involved with the pipe said i was a very bad boy and should never do such a thing again BUT it was very helpful and saved all of them a lot of time and effort. Pipe is now connected and no one got taken to court When we had our water connection, the trench in the grass verge opposite also uncovered the electric cable we needed to connect to. So I asked the SW guys not to fill in that bit and I enlarged the hole to 1 metre square to make the connection pit for our electricity and saved almost £1000 by doing so. Did I tell you that SW nearly gave up as they could not find there pipe, it was not where the plan showed and they had already dug further than they should. I found it for them with my divining rods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 Just off the phone with the architect. We are going to present the survey we had done to SW, as well as the fact there are physical markers on the ground at both ends of the pipe. My suspicion is that they want to see the pipe as they don't trust people not to do doctored surveys that suit them. But the physical markers might push them in our direction. If they accept that then the pipe will never be seen. If not then there will be a hole and pictures. We have managed in principle to redesign the house with a minimum of changes to accommodate Scottish Water's issues and hopefully planning will see this as a minor variation. The position and size off the house basically do not change. We just cut the corner off it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 However you slice it you should not excavate by machine without hand dig first to expose the water main. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Mr Punter said: However you slice it you should not excavate by machine without hand dig first to expose the water main. By CAT survey and ground markers we can position it to within a couple of hundred millimetres. The pipe is also along the boundary of the site behind the house. We do not need to cross it or interfere with it in any way. The house will be 6m away from this at its closest point (this is only one corner of the house). I don't think we need any more accurate a position unless we have to. It isn't a big job to expose it, but I would not be worried about its position at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 2 hours ago, AliG said: ... If not then there will be a hole and pictures. ... Just Bloody Do It. The amount of effort to keep this thread in existence far exceeds that needed to just blooooooooody dig it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Just now, ToughButterCup said: Just Bloody Do It. The amount of effort to keep this thread in existence far exceeds that needed to just blooooooooody dig it. Oddly enough...I was reading the other day about the superiority of the German trenches in WW1! ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliG Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 I have a guy lined up to dig if I need to. As people are clearly missing pictures of large pipes - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 On 13/03/2021 at 13:33, PeterW said: Pick axe swung properly will punch a hole in 1” cast iron .... and the water pressure will make it come back at speed !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 1 minute ago, AliG said: Sahara Pipeline, got laid by 500 men in 3 days. Better than @pocster's parties. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 6 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said: Just Bloody Do It. The amount of effort to keep this thread in existence far exceeds that needed to just blooooooooody dig it. If i was closer i would come round with my spoons and dig the fecking thing! ? i am very neat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Ah, @Onoff, you noticed the shoring did you - in the photo - ? Whenever I work in Berlin, I look(ed) with interest at the way below ground public works are carried out with temporary shuttering. Nothing more than shortened normal scaff planks shaped (sharpened) at one end and supported with simple screw jacks. Quick, effective, cheap, sustainable. Since Berlin is built on sand, the shuttering needs to be spot on. Vorsprung durch Holzschalungsbretter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Moonshine said: Now that, that's what I call a NeatOle. How young was the slave ? 8 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 4 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said: Whenever I work in Berlin, I look(ed) with interest at the way below ground public works are carried out with temporary shuttering. They knew a thing or two about tunnelling. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07r39cw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 PMSL ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 19 hours ago, Moonshine said: If i was closer i would come round with my spoons and dig the fecking thing! ? i am very neat I get Wendy to do work like that. She is my go to person for narrow holes and trenches. This was at our last house back in the 90s and it was only 2m deep. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 9 minutes ago, PeterStarck said: This was at our last house back in the 90s and it was only 2m deep. tbh i wouldn't want to be down there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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