Alu clad timber or pvc

[AliG]

Lizzie you never said what price your quotes were coming in at. As a generalisation aluminium/timber triple glazed windows come in at around £300 a square metre ex VAT and fitting.

 

Many things affects the price of windows, as well as the construction, doors tend to be more expensive than windows, especially large sliders and the price you can get will be affected by the size of the order. It sounds like your order is not enormous and has more large sliding doors so I would guess it to be over £300 a square metre. I would probably separate out the entrance door as they are much more expensive.

 

I hate maintenance but have gone for wood internally as I prefer the look. Often the question I ask myself in these circumstances, and it is an unfortunately expensive question, is down the line will I look at this item and wish I had got something else. That will drive me up the wall. If you are happy with how the UPVC looks inside then fine. The windows will be excellent quality and perform well. The main difference is aesthetics which is a personal thing. I wouldn't worry how they will look to other people, most people would never ever notice and what matters is how you feel about them.

 

You mentioned sound reduction being important. Standard triple glazed windows have glass that is usually 4,18,4,18,4. That is 4mm thick panes with 18 or 20mm spaces. That reduces sound by around 35 decibels. If you want better you need to alter the thickness of one of the panes so that sound does not resonate through all the panes as they are the same. Thus you can change one pane to 6mm or 6.4mm laminated glass which is also more secure. Looking at Internorm's website the standard glass is called 3N2, this offers 35dB reduction and the glass with different thicknesses which reduces sound is called 33U, offering 39dB reduction. This or laminated glass will tend to add up to 10% to the cost and you should check that the different quotes you have are like for like on glass. 

 

I would also note that a lot of the sound actually comes through the window vents and if you want to reduce sound probably having MVHR and no vents would make the biggest difference. TBF though, we have a lot of wind noise in our current house, I think it mainly comes in around the eaves and I am not convinced it doesn't come through the roof rather than the windows. It is hard to tell.

[MikeSharp01]

On Sunday, January 29, 2017 at 16:28, PeterStarck said:

 

We had the mitres filled on our Rehau frames before they were sprayed. Everybody who has commented on them think they are ali not plas

Do you have any pictures of the internals of your so treated Rationel windows? Think the other half might be coming around!

[Crofter]

On 29 January 2017 at 15:39, dogman said:

The door needs to be tested to secured by design or PAS 24. It also needs to comply with App Q of the building regs. The supplier will tell you this. I have had problems finding a pair of doors for our new build as very few have been tested and can be fitted to new builds.

You actually don't need a spy hole. you do need to be able to see someone stood there and this could be a window or even CCTV

 

I never knew that- every day I find something about which to be grateful for my choice to avoid having to comply with building regs.

I didn't like any of the front doors I could find- insufficient glazed area, and universally made in wood which I worried would be difficult to tie in with my rough sawn cladding. I ended up buying what was described as 'half a French door' which was TG alu clad to match my windows, maximum glazed area, far, far better U value than any of the front doors I considered, and was cheaper as well. I was left wondering why anybody would choose a conventional front door, and now I know  

[Gone West]

3 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Do you have any pictures of the internals of your so treated Rationel windows? Think the other half might be coming around!

 

I haven't got Rationel windows, did you mean Rehau?

[lizzie]

ALIG thanks for all the info. I dont have particular sound requirements beyond wind noise as it is on a windy ridge but is rural and no passing traffic. My quotes for alu/pvc triple (excluding external doors) are coming in a about ££390sq m  excluding fitting and after discount.  Seems a huge amount of money for pvc windows even triple glazed with alu clad. Thats for toughened glass not laminated. Thats on home pure too not studio.

 

I am now getting another quote for the same in alu timber from a different IN supplier, see how that compares.

 

You guys are all great with the advice thank you.

[MikeSharp01]

2 hours ago, PeterStarck said:

6 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Do you have any pictures of the internals of your so treated Rationel windows? Think the other half might be coming around!

 

I haven't got Rationel windows, did you mean Rehau?

Sorry Peter, my mistake. A pic of the corner without mitre is all I am looking for I guess if Rehau can do it they all can.

[AliG]

7 hours ago, lizzie said:

ALIG thanks for all the info. I dont have particular sound requirements beyond wind noise as it is on a windy ridge but is rural and no passing traffic. My quotes for alu/pvc triple (excluding external doors) are coming in a about ££390sq m

 

I did wonder after your comments that the price was coming in quite high. The Home Pure (KF500?) are a very nice and I would guess very expensive window.

 

I have watched people's quotes come in over time on here and I would guess that you should be looking for a price somewhere between £325 and £350 a square metre fro a good quality alu/wood window assuming that your order is maybe around 40sq metres? One caveat is not many people have posted prices since Brexit and it may be that prices have risen around 10% since last year due to the exchange rate move. I am not sure on an alu/PVC window although comments suggest that they should be the same price or less.

 

There are quite a few companies who can quote, Velfac, Rationel, Ideal Combi, Janex. Also some people on here may be able to point you towards eastern European suppliers they have used and got good prices from.

[lizzie]

12 minutes ago, AliG said:

 

I did wonder after your comments that the price was coming in quite high. The Home Pure (KF500?) are a very nice and I would guess very expensive window.

 

I have watched people's quotes come in over time on here and I would guess that you should be looking for a price somewhere between £325 and £350 a square metre fro a good quality alu/wood window assuming that your order is maybe around 40sq metres? One caveat is not many people have posted prices since Brexit and it may be that prices have risen around 10% since last year due to the exchange rate move. I am not sure on an alu/PVC window although comments suggest that they should be the same price or less.

 

There are quite a few companies who can quote, Velfac, Rationel, Ideal Combi, Janex. Also some people on here may be able to point you towards eastern European suppliers they have used and got good prices from.

Thanks, my order is 53sqm. After todays investigations I think I can get the alu/wood at better price than the alu/pvc from another dealer.  Pays to shop around I would not have looked at an alternative dealer for the same branded product without the comments on this forum about different prices etc.....have looked ta Velfac, Rationel, Ideal Combi and one or two others. Mostly they couldnt do what I wanted in some way or another. Although the price is pretty much the same as I started out with if I can now get the nicer frame and alu timber not  pvc for that money  then thats what I will go with because it seems like not too bad for the better product.

Once again I thank you all for you help. Its really been so useful.

 

[Barney12]

6 hours ago, AliG said:

One caveat is not many people have posted prices since Brexit and it may be that prices have risen around 10% since last year due to the exchange rate move. 

 

I have been told by distro's for Internorm that they have increased list prices by 5% due to exchange rate fluctuations. 

[le-cerveau]

Price wise I am between £500 and £900 per m² depending on window size, however that is with all the Internorm extras (powered blinds...) so it will massively skew the price, but £350 for a plain triple glazed window should be near the obtainable.  I managed to fix my prices before the Internorm price rise.

[Crofter]

Mine worked out about £360/m2 inc vat for a small order (about 11m2) in TG aluclad timber. The tilt/slide patio door was almost as much as everything else put together, though. The relatively simple kitchen and bathroom windows were really quite inexpensive.

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, Crofter said:

Mine worked out about £360/m2 inc vat for a small order (about 11m2) in TG aluclad timber. The tilt/slide patio door was almost as much as everything else put together, though. The relatively simple kitchen and bathroom windows were really quite inexpensive.

 

Who was that through...? I have a small ish amount of glazing but 2 pairs of french doors so I'm trying to get the best pricing but its only 22m2 or so and most want £450m2 and upwards for that.

[Gone West]

@MikeSharp01

 

It's a bit grubby outside, not best time for taking pictures. So it's outside, then inside same window, then as a point of interest an Internorm entrance door that is ali clad.

 

[Crofter]

2 hours ago, PeterW said:

 

Who was that through...? I have a small ish amount of glazing but 2 pairs of french doors so I'm trying to get the best pricing but its only 22m2 or so and most want £450m2 and upwards for that.

 

That was via @iSelfBuild who was ordering his own windows at the same time, so not sure if it's a repeatable offer I'm afraid- you could try asking him though. And of course it was pre Brexit (he ordered then directly from Poland).

French doors ought to be fairly economical, he did try to persuade me to go down that route at first but I didn't think it would have worked on my site due to lack of space and exposure to high winds.

[AliG]

I just had a look at my quote. The french doors are around 20% more expensive per square metre than opening windows. Opening windows are around 8% more expensive than fixed windows. I have a lot of french doors, but no sliders. I also have quite a lot of non opening windows as I didn't see the point of the extra cost and maintenance if they don't have to open.

 

Perhaps if you want to cut costs you could change some sliders to french doors. It's quite a personal thing, I guess, I just prefer doors. You might also want to look to see if all the windows need to open.

[lizzie]

2 hours ago, AliG said:

I just had a look at my quote. The french doors are around 20% more expensive per square metre than opening windows. Opening windows are around 8% more expensive than fixed windows. I have a lot of french doors, but no sliders. I also have quite a lot of non opening windows as I didn't see the point of the extra cost and maintenance if they don't have to open.

 

Perhaps if you want to cut costs you could change some sliders to french doors. It's quite a personal thing, I guess, I just prefer doors. You might also want to look to see if all the windows need to open.

I started off wanting a glass corner and bifolds...have been talked into sliders by every builder and architect on the planet. I'm afraid french doors won't do it for me and wouldnt look right in my build.  Who could have thought windows could cost so much!

 

[Crofter]

2 hours ago, AliG said:

I just had a look at my quote. The french doors are around 20% more expensive per square metre than opening windows. Opening windows are around 8% more expensive than fixed windows. I have a lot of french doors, but no sliders. I also have quite a lot of non opening windows as I didn't see the point of the extra cost and maintenance if they don't have to open.

 

Perhaps if you want to cut costs you could change some sliders to french doors. It's quite a personal thing, I guess, I just prefer doors. You might also want to look to see if all the windows need to open.

 

I researched a lot of different options on windows and doors and found similar costs to what you describe. Another significant factor was that the number of elements in a window has a bearing on cost, and of course it costs much more to have two small windows than one window of the equivalent size. Hand in hand with this is that smaller windows lose proportionally much more heat than big ones do.

 

Now whenever I see a house with a row of several small windows, or a window broken up into several panes, where one large window would have done the job, I shake my head and wonder why anybody would have wanted to spend more money just to get a more interrupted view and worse U value. I was happily oblivious to this before!

[MikeSharp01]

6 hours ago, PeterStarck said:

It's a bit grubby outside, not best time for taking pictures. So it's outside, then inside same window, then as a point of interest an Internorm entrance door that is ali clad.

Many thanks Peter that looks great let's see what the other half thinks. 

[lizzie]

Decsion made alu clad timber Internorm.Thank you for all your help.

[volcane]

What style? Did you go for a 'nice' front door?

[Ferdinand]

On 30/01/2017 at 12:38, MikeSharp01 said:

From my perspective the mitre thing is close to pure prejudice on my other halves part but there are a couple of other reasons. She feels that UPVC has too much environmental impact and the sections can be deeper. I am working on it. Off to build it live in Maidstone on the weekend where we will make our final decision. 

 

Aluminium is massively recycled which reduces the impact.

 

I can't find a number for the percentage but at school they told us 90%.

 

Anyone have a current figure?

Edited February 14, 2017 by Ferdinand

[lizzie]

10 hours ago, volcane said:

What style? Did you go for a 'nice' front door?

yes a lovely front door, can't beleive how expensive front doors are but we liked it!

 

We are having the triple glazed sliders and windows in studio frame all with laminated glass, we have a lot of glass and laminated worth the extra cost for safety and security benefit......we hope!

[MikeSharp01]

17 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

Aluminium is massively recycled which reduces the impact

Yes I tried that one but I had no immediate effect. However we seem to be having some mind changes as the full drawings of the all timber system will soon come back and I think they will be to bulky for us, the sight lines change as you go from inward to outward opening as you go down the bulding and neither the other half or the architect are going to like the look this gives so suspect we will have to look at another system anyway. Ho Hum.

[ProDave]

A tip for some that may help..

 

When I ordered our garage window from Rationel as a single window, I thought I would make it as "cheap as possible" by specifying two fixed panes. When it came in more expensive than I thought it should, I queried it and found in fact the cheapest option was the "standard" one fixed pane and one opening pane.
 

[Triassic]

I'm also at the stage of looking for Ali Claud windows and no wanting to pay the Brexit premium was looking for UK manufacturers and came across AJ & D Chapelhow Ltd, http://www.ajdchapelhow.co.uk/. Has anyone used them and if so, got any feedback. According The the blurb on their web site the guy who set the company up was also a cofounder of NorDan.