joe90 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 @canalsiderenovation thanks for the recommendation, utility point have very competitive rates but lots of reviews saying they overcharge and fail to refund customers so beware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, canalsiderenovation said: Thank you I'll get one if the neighbour hasn't got one. For the small bathroom that feels cold I've noticed if I do raise the temperature the flame comes on so that's working. I'll get that thermometer. It's just getting used to this different system I guess I just though with every room being set to 22 degrees it would feel the same! the flame symbol means the thermostat itself is calling for heat, it’s not that everything else is working, problems with air lock, faulty zone actuators, etc are still possible. the thermostat doesn’t get feedback from any external device Edited December 20, 2020 by TonyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 1 hour ago, joe90 said: @canalsiderenovation thanks for the recommendation, utility point have very competitive rates but lots of reviews saying they overcharge and fail to refund customers so beware. I've been with them since 2019 and had no issues but then I submit meter readings online. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 If the stat is set to air temp and it’s registering 22C but the room is definitely not 22C, could there be any other source of heat nearby warming the stat up, or perhaps hot pipes in the wall? you should be able to find the culprit with an IR thermometer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 5 hours ago, joe90 said: @canalsiderenovation thanks for the recommendation, utility point have very competitive rates but lots of reviews saying they overcharge and fail to refund customers so beware. They do a payment plan where you just pay for the month in advance, and then on the next months payment they refund/charge for any difference, I’ve found this quite a good one to be on and it’s never more than a few £ out 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 1 minute ago, MikeGrahamT21 said: They do a payment plan where you just pay for the month in advance, and then on the next months payment they refund/charge for any difference, I’ve found this quite a good one to be on and it’s never more than a few £ out Yes currently I pay monthly based on my actual usage and meter reading provided by me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jymmm Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 It could be that the thermostat needs to be calibrated. Check floor and wall temperatures with an IR thermometer (a very usefull gadget with underfloor heating) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troggy02 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 The heat consumption looks way too high. Bare in mind that your ASHP will be around 3 x efficient. Ours for example consumes around 1.5kWh with the outside temp around 8c rising to 4-5 kWh at -3c. It's producing up to 18kWh of heat for a largish property. I estimate we'll use about 12,000 kWh per annum with 2 x electric cars! Tariff wise we're with Octopus. We were with the Agile tariff that variable and on some days gets down to a few pennies a kw, but it can also rise to 35p kWh. We've now moved to Octopus Go which is 13.8p during the day and 5p from 0:30 to 4:30am which is good for heating the house overnight (and the cars). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 37 minutes ago, troggy02 said: The heat consumption looks way too high. Bare in mind that your ASHP will be around 3 x efficient. Ours for example consumes around 1.5kWh with the outside temp around 8c rising to 4-5 kWh at -3c. It's producing up to 18kWh of heat for a largish property. I estimate we'll use about 12,000 kWh per annum with 2 x electric cars! What temperature do you have your thermostats set to? We had ours set at 19 degrees which we found too cool and even then (with outside temperatures around 8-10 degrees) our consumption and DHW on a schedule we were still in around 25kWh. Today with temperatures of 3 degrees and in the 24 hour period since yesterday with our thermostats raised to 20 degrees we have used just over 40kWh with the heat pump. You will have seen on my thread we don't have EWI yet which I'm hoping will help in the longer term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troggy02 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 17 minutes ago, canalsiderenovation said: What temperature do you have your thermostats set to? We had ours set at 19 degrees which we found too cool and even then (with outside temperatures around 8-10 degrees) our consumption and DHW on a schedule we were still in around 25kWh. Today with temperatures of 3 degrees and in the 24 hour period since yesterday with our thermostats raised to 20 degrees we have used just over 40kWh with the heat pump. You will have seen on my thread we don't have EWI yet which I'm hoping will help in the longer term. We have the house at 21c, but note, the thermostats for the UFH have to be at 23c to obtain that. We have a couple of accurate weather stations and traditional thermometers that all confirm the 21c actual temp. I think the room stats just aren't that accurate. Energy wise you're in our ball park. On a very cold day (say -3c) we could consume 40+kWh to heat the house and water or more. It's worse when between 2 and -3c, humid and ice forming on the ASHP due to the defrost cycles. Either side of that its pretty efficient. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 I could not help noticing that our heating has not come on fir the last few days, currently 8’ outside and house still 21’, only heated by incidentals and retained heat. ( a storm is brewing so I might light the woodburner for that “caveman” feel after I walk the dog in the rain ?). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, joe90 said: I could not help noticing that our heating has not come on fir the last few days, currently 8’ outside and house still 21’, only heated by incidentals and retained heat. ( a storm is brewing so I might light the woodburner for that “caveman” feel after I walk the dog in the rain ?). It's warmer where you are it's now 2 degrees here. I'll be lighting the woodburner later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 23 minutes ago, joe90 said: I could not help noticing that our heating has not come on fir the last few days, currently 8’ outside Been really quite warm down here. Still 11⁰c, was warmer down by the sea earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 hour ago, troggy02 said: Ours for example consumes around 1.5kWh with the outside temp around 8c rising to 4-5 kWh at -3c can you clarify those numbers ..?? 1 hour ago, troggy02 said: It's producing up to 18kWh of heat for a largish property That would indicate at 8°C your heat pump has a CoP of 12..??! And at -3°C it has a CoP of 3.6-4.5. I’ve never seen a unit that can do that - a CoP of 4.5 at AW 7/35 is pretty much the benchmark number, not at -3°C What is the building constructed of, and what’s the heating ..? UFH..? How long does it run for ..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 hour ago, troggy02 said: Tariff wise we're with Octopus. We were with the Agile tariff that variable and on some days gets down to a few pennies a kw, but it can also rise to 35p kWh. We've now moved to Octopus Go which is 13.8p during the day and 5p from 0:30 to 4:30am which is good for heating the house overnight (and the cars). I was out off with the Agile tarrif and knowing my luck our main use will be when it's higher. The Octopus Go rates for us are slightly more expensive in the day but we may look at the Go Faster which has cheaper rates from 8:30pm rather than the 0:30-4:30am (we don't have electric cars). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troggy02 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 hours ago, PeterW said: can you clarify those numbers ..?? That would indicate at 8°C your heat pump has a CoP of 12..??! And at -3°C it has a CoP of 3.6-4.5. I’ve never seen a unit that can do that - a CoP of 4.5 at AW 7/35 is pretty much the benchmark number, not at -3°C What is the building constructed of, and what’s the heating ..? UFH..? How long does it run for ..? To clarify then... The ASHP can produce UP TO 18kW of heat, but would never need to produce anything like that normally. At 8c it's real life continuous use is around the 1.5kW mark. Right now it's about 1.5c outside, about 60% of the UFH is on + first floor radiators and it's consuming 2kW with a flow temp of 37c. At -4c I've seen it rise to 4Kw. I believe the max it can draw is 5kW. Obviously it will vary according to load. The heat loss calculations for the property show a 7.6kW requirement at -3c. The design model uses an average COP of 2.68 at -3c and season average of 4.31. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 3 hours ago, joe90 said: I could not help noticing that our heating has not come on fir the last few days, currently 8’ outside and house still 21’, only heated by incidentals and retained heat. ( a storm is brewing so I might light the woodburner for that “caveman” feel after I walk the dog in the rain ?). Oh I wish. I think we are on course for the entire January to average less than 0, with -16 the record one night. The weather man just told me tonight is likely to be the coldest night of the winter with "minus double digit" temperatures widespread. Definitely permafrost set in which will take a while to thaw. I think we might get up to about +4 by next week. We went for a walk by the coast here today as all the local footpaths are far too slippery for nice walking at the moment. Snow lying right down to the high tide line. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 This week (since last Friday afternoon) has been the worse for units of electricity for the ASHP. We started good with 30-40 units at the weekend for the heat pump. And the week has been terrible. We are up to between 60-70 units for the heat pump with all our room stats remaining on between 20 and 20.5 degrees. Since yesterday afternoon the HP is already on 71 units! Temperatures here have been between -5 and -1 degrees all week and it 'feels' around -7. It's bitter. How I wish the external insulation was in because our bills are huge. Total consumption for the week 390 units of heat pump and '60' other units. What I'm yet to establish is why in some 24 hours periods our 'other' use is 3 units and at other times 18! We now have an electricity monitor and I've just watched it go from 300w to 3.2kWh and I've no idea why as no room is calling for heat and we haven't turned on any big appliances.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 something's turning the immersion on still, I fear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Electric defrost in the external unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, dpmiller said: something's turning the immersion on still, I fear... Nope we have a separate meter one for immersion one for HP. I can see the immersion and I was checking this and in the space 2 weeks of monitoring this it only went up 4 units. Every setting to do with the immersion on the heat pump is off which includes the disenfectent cycle on the heat pump. What I have noticed is if any solar is going to the immersion (you know when it's working as the Solic lights up green) so for today for example as it's sunny, the meter on the immersion goes up. I don't know if this is normal. Edited February 12, 2021 by canalsiderenovation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 the meter is on the "wrong" side of the Solic to my mind. But that doesn't account for a near-3kW load mysteriously turning on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 10 minutes ago, dpmiller said: the meter is on the "wrong" side of the Solic to my mind. But that doesn't account for a near-3kW load mysteriously turning on... It could have been due to settings on the heat pump but I'm now confident in the past few days there is nothing but when the Solic is generating the meter on the immersion goes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 14 minutes ago, canalsiderenovation said: It could have been due to settings on the heat pump but I'm now confident in the past few days there is nothing but when the Solic is generating the meter on the immersion goes up. Without some serious re thinking on the wiring there is not much you can do about that. But it might be a handy measure of how much solar PV is going to the immersion heater if you are sure it is not the ASHP turning on the immersion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Did you manage to get a thermometer to check your room stats are reading correctly? Enough of us have had issues with stats to make them essential. Personally I like something like this because the thermocouple isn't encapsulated so it responds reasonably quickly to temperature changes. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TM-902C-Digital-K-Type-Thermometer-Sensor-Thermocouple-Probe-Detector/353269567728?hash=item524081d0f0:g:RCQAAOSwf1RefYrd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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