Task usage range for a 1st fix frame nailer.

[epsilonGreedy]

My roofing carpenter has bailed on my roof truss installation job due to ill health and so I am now looking into purchasing a nail gun and tackling the smaller parts of the roof myself.

 

If I buy a nailer for the roof, what other tasks later in the self build will a 1st nail be useful for?

 

I get the impression these nailers are designed to fire bix ring shank nails into large chunks of wood. Can they be dialed back much for more delicate work e.g. fixing on a 1" thick fascia board or the thinner bracing timbers that run across rafters?

 

My favourite tool of choice at the moment is my Makita impulse screwdriver which I tend to use for everything when perhaps a manual hammer would be better. 

[Russell griffiths]

Will you be putting on the roof battens ?

will you be building the internal stud walls ?

apart from those two jobs I wouldn’t bother, I cannot see your roof being overly heavy in the nail dept, if the trusses are all pre fabricated then it will be a lot of truss clips and bracing

 

i like tools so I have just brought the new dewalt one, just depends if you can justify £450-600. 

[ToughButterCup]

Save yer pennies. Screw it.

@Russell griffiths uses his principally on  his fishing trips.

Edited October 22, 2020 by ToughButterCup

[joe90]

I’ve got one from when I was working and it’s great but heavy, hardly use it now (next step is gardening in my old age) they do keep their price to sell on, may sell mine along with my second fix one.

[epsilonGreedy]

38 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Will you be putting on the roof battens ?

 

 

Probably not.

 

38 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

will you be building the internal stud walls ?

 

 

I expect so.

 

39 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

I cannot see your roof being overly heavy in the nail dept

 

 

I have 8 hip corners and the raw wood in the truss package to cut all the jack rafters. Got quite a few hangers where the trusses meet at right angles at the L-shape part of the house. Think these are fixed with square twisted nails.

 

48 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

if the trusses are all pre fabricated then it will be a lot of truss clips and bracing

 

 

Yes I have 4 boxes of rooftruss mechano and plan to start another thread to understand the various mysterious metal parts.

 

The large hangers usefully have the recommended nail sizes, types and quantity. "With top wrap" it specifies:

 

3.75 x 30mm square twist

3.75 x 70mm round wire nails

 

Qty Face 8, Top 4, Joist 6

 

I assume engineering stresses at the truss foot metal clips are low and so these won't require a frame nailer to attach to the wallplate.

 

 

[Big Jimbo]

I have thought about trying to convert One of my first fix paslode guns to fire without having to be pressed up against something. It would stop an intruder, and drop them to the floor. You could them walk up to them, and finish them off with a couple of taps to the head.  I do sometimes worry about my what goes through my mind.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Big Jimbo
missed a bit

[epsilonGreedy]

Just now, Big Jimbo said:

I have thought about trying to convert One of my first fix paslode guns to fire without having to be pressed up against something. It would stop an intruder, and drop them to the floor. You could them walk up to them, and finish them off with a couple of taps to the head.  I do sometimes worry about my thoughs

 

I still wonder how the roofing crew who did my neighbour's selfbuild managed to fire nails 30 meters over to my plot. I found two nails embedded in a garden cushion at a ballistic angle which implicated the neighbour's roof.

[Big Jimbo]

1 minute ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

I still wonder how the roofing crew who did my neighbour's selfbuild managed to fire nails 30 meters over to my plot. I found two nails embedded in a garden cushion at a ballistic angle which implicated the neighbour's roof.

When i was using mine on my roof a few years back, at an angle. If fired, and the nail left the gun. It went through the feather edge fence, and into the neighbours shed. They are obviously very powerful.

[markc]

1 minute ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

I still wonder how the roofing crew who did my neighbour's selfbuild managed to fire nails 30 meters over to my plot. I found two nails embedded in a garden cushion at a ballistic angle which implicated the neighbour's roof.

Edge shots! happens (with air guns)  a lot when you are holding the trigger and bounce nailing. get too close to the edge and they  go straight through. We were trebling up some trusses on trestles when my brother got a rebound from thge floor and embedded a couple of inches into his A*&e cheek. Really funny watching someone pull a 4" annular ring nail out with a claw hammer.

[Mr Punter]

Good for boxings, cladding (with a no-mar nose), battens and noggins on timber frame.

 

You can fire them by pulling the nose back.  Not encouraged on my sites.

 

Beware of hitting knots in the wood and having your hand in the vicinity as the nails can twist and come out at right angles.

[nod]

I’ve Hitachi in first and second fix 

Same gas and nails as Pas 

Half the price of Pas 

Do exactly the same job 

12 months guarantee

Tool monkey .com 

[Declan52]

Just buy a quality hammer. For what you will actually use it for and the cost it won't be worth it. Plus it will stop you nailing yourself to the roof at some stage.

[Russell griffiths]

If you think you will be building the internal stud walls then yes I would get one. 

 

On a different theme, if now your roof is going to take a bit longer make sure your trusses are stacked flat, they have a habit of going funny shapes. 

 

Can you not get a crew crew of two lads who do it all day long to chuck them up for you one weekend and let you finish off some fiddly bits. 

There is a Facebook site called timberframe jobs, it always has people advertising for crews. 

[joe90]

1 hour ago, Mr Punter said:

Beware of hitting knots in the wood and having your hand in the vicinity as the nails can twist and come out at right angles.

been there, done that. Right through my middle finger, pulled it out with pliers and carried on, customer was watching and suggested I go to hospital but my reply was “doctors don’t know much about annular  nails!!!! ?.

[Oz07]

Are you confident to do the roof? If you pay a chippie they should have one. If your deffo doing it yourself then may be worth buying. I have on but still use loose nails on some parts of the roof

[Oz07]

Btw, yes deffo use for bracing. Also yes for fascia depending what it is. I had a treated timber backing fascia with upvc capping. These can be used for cladding so no reason not on fascia depending on material

[dnb]

I ended up doing more of the roof than I originally intended so my nail gun has come in for a lot of use. For my build it will be a useful tool for a long time to come - lots of cladding to do, internal fitting, framing for the garage, fencing etc... I'm about 2500 nails in to the roof and several hundred on other jobs for friends. It has definitely made jobs go faster and more smoothly, and time is getting critical for me now. If I need the money back in the future it will easily sell for near what I paid.

 

If you do go for a Paslode, look carefully at the IM350+ over the IM360 because these work with much cheaper other brand gas. I have an IM360 bought as a serviced ex-demo unit for a very good price - I can't resist buying "bargain" tools - and found the nails appear the same from inspection of the ones generously donated from my frame people (shame I can't use the gas), and fire without problem but I am told there are some differences somewhere.

[epsilonGreedy]

15 hours ago, Oz07 said:

Are you confident to do the roof? If you pay a chippie they should have one. If your deffo doing it yourself then may be worth buying. I have on but still use loose nails on some parts of the roof

 

I will start with a small single storey section of roof which is 8' x 12'. The trusses are tiny and can be lifted in one hand. My compound mitre saw should be good for the two hip rafters plus jacks and there is a good SkillBuilder episode on the finer points of cutting hips.

[PeterW]

Buy yourself a Stanley adjustable roof square and the Carpenters Ready Reckoner

 

Carpenter's Metric Roofing Ready Reckoner https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0854420045/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_0IQKFb5SFDT1Q

 

If you are framing a roof out for jack rafters it will be the only two things you need. 
 

Unless you get a framing nailer that can fire twist nails then you will be quicker with a hammer and nails. Buy a Kunys leather pouch and a decent 16oz hammer, get some scrap bits of wood and you’ll soon be putting nails in like a pro.

 

Toolstation ring shank galvanised nails are very good quality and not expensive either. 

 

 

[Oz07]

The problem is with a nail gun sometimes you get ahead of yourself and end up ripping stiff out. Normal nails you can bang in leave the head out then it's not so bad if has to be moved. Saying that I'd deffo buy one if you're doing a lot of work on this place. Sell it when you're done and you won't have paid a lot. 

[epsilonGreedy]

4 hours ago, PeterW said:

Buy yourself a Stanley adjustable roof square and the Carpenters Ready Reckoner

 

 

I should also buy myself one of those lipped set squares that Robin Clevit uses on SkillBuilder. My set square is a simpler model, the same I used during carpentry lessons at school aged 14.

[epsilonGreedy]

On 22/10/2020 at 15:29, ToughButterCup said:

Save yer pennies. Screw it.

 

 

If I was self building on a desert island with no internet connection for reference I would connect all bits of wood with screws. A screw seems like an inherently superior method of pulling two bits of wood together compared to a nail.

 

Is there any downside putting up trusses with screws instead of nails?

[joe90]

11 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said:

Is there any downside putting up trusses with screws instead of nails?

that’s been raised before, nails are good for shear forces screws are not,(I think it was about joist  hangers!!!) I tend to temp hold stuff with screws till I know it’s right then bang away with the old paslode (then take the screws out as I am tight ?).

[epsilonGreedy]

48 minutes ago, joe90 said:

that’s been raised before, nails are good for shear forces screws are not,(I think it was about joist  hangers!!!) I tend to temp hold stuff with screws till I know it’s right then bang away with the old paslode (then take the screws out as I am tight ?).

 

Ah, shear force. Not considered that, makes sense. Previously I considered wood jointing to be mainly a bonding challenge.

[Oz07]

2 hours ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

If I was self building on a desert island with no internet connection for reference I would connect all bits of wood with screws. A screw seems like an inherently superior method of pulling two bits of wood together compared to a nail.

 

Is there any downside putting up trusses with screws instead of nails?

also speed, screws are slowwwww