Hard to clean pitfalls? Cleaning dreams?

[puntloos]

Many things in a house collect dirt, scratches etc etc. 

 

Does anyone have opinions on which items you might want to avoid because they're hard to clean, or what things to do to make it even easier?

 

Hard to clean:

Shaker Doors, Wooden worktops and Gas hobs come to mind, but I could imagine (totally made up) that a steam oven sounds nice but is a nightmare the water toboggin keeps on slipping away or brandX washing machines just collect nasty smelling scum that you have to disassemble the entire thing to get to.

 

Easy to clean:

Most electic hobs are pretty good but there's still a line around it that's a touch annoying. Has anyone ever recessed the hob fully into the worktop or is that a bad idea?

Have closeable cupboards only. Any open shelving will be dusty in a week. 

[Bitpipe]

Induction hobs are near flush to the worktop and are very easy to clean being a flat plate of ceramic/glass. Ours has about 2m clearance and it can get a little grubby there but I can get a cloth or brush in to clean if required.

 

We have resin floors and they are pretty bomb proof, but as I discovered susceptible to bleach style liquids being left on them but pretty resilient if you catch the stain quickly. They do show up dust and dander quickly but a regular hoover and a weekly steam mop and they're good as new.

 

Wood is surprisingly resilient - we laid pre-waxed boards upstairs and recently redecorated one bedroom. Floor was quite grubby and we used an Osmo product and some elbow grease and it came up beautifully.

 

Recommend investing in washable paint if possible, we have that in the hall and it does clean up well (fingerprints etc) whereas the regular finish just rubs off the wall.

 

I really don't like carpet as in our old house I was horrified at what used to come out when we had them washed annually.

 

As a result the new house is shoes off at door which was borne of necessity as it took 18 months to get a stable clean surface outside after we moved in.

 

Our kitchen has a putty coloured composite stone (Silstone?) and it is pretty stain resistant. We have a Hacker kitchen and mixed glass and matt doors, gloss really show up streaks and fingerprints.

 

We have Neff steam ovens (one dedicated and two regular turned out to be steam also) and never had any problems with the water cassette.

 

[ProDave]

SWMBO has a thing about toilets.  She will not allow a toilet where the U bend is a visible part of the toilet, because it collects dust and is a pain to clean.

 

So all our toilets had to pass the "easy clean" test. foe example by having the U bend bit enclosed and out of sight.

 

In general lots of things got scrutinised and ones chosen that don't have ledges for dust to collect.

 

We bought an electric oven that has pyrolysis self cleaning. Brilliant.  but that does NOT clean within the 3 bits of glass that makes up the glass door and with no way to dismantle that to clean them that does not risk breaking the glass.

 

 

[joe90]

I wanted an induction hob but “lost the toss of a coin” (guess who cleans the gas hob, ME!!!)

[Bitpipe]

19 minutes ago, ProDave said:

SWMBO has a thing about toilets.  She will not allow a toilet where the U bend is a visible part of the toilet, because it collects dust and is a pain to clean.

 

So all our toilets had to pass the "easy clean" test. foe example by having the U bend bit enclosed and out of sight.

 

In general lots of things got scrutinised and ones chosen that don't have ledges for dust to collect.

 

We bought an electric oven that has pyrolysis self cleaning. Brilliant.  but that does NOT clean within the 3 bits of glass that makes up the glass door and with no way to dismantle that to clean them that does not risk breaking the glass.

 

 

 

I have a Neff hide and slide and you can remove and dismantle that door and clean inner panes of grease and dust. 'Someone' broke the inner pane over the summer so had to bite the bullet to do it - cost and arm and leg for the glass from Neff but was easy enough.

 

Agree that self cleaning oven is great  - best for a sunny day and do it with the PV

 

However the wire racks still need cleaning with wire wool or in a bag with oven cleaner.

[ProDave]

3 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

 

Agree that self cleaning oven is great  - best for a sunny day and do it with the PV

 

Best on a sunny day in Spring or autumn when the excess heat generated is actually useful.

[puntloos]

Slight anecdote I just ran in today: don't get a bath with a drain plug in the middle. Rinsing it out is much more cumbersome with water randomly 'overshooting' the plughole. 

 

6 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

Induction hobs are near flush to the worktop and are very easy to clean being a flat plate of ceramic/glass. Ours has about 2m clearance and it can get a little grubby there but I can get a cloth or brush in to clean if required.

2m eh?
 

Yeah the 2mm is pretty common. Not something to lose sleep over I guess.

 

6 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

We have resin floors and they are pretty bomb proof, but as I discovered susceptible to bleach style liquids being left on them but pretty resilient if you catch the stain quickly. They do show up dust and dander quickly but a regular hoover and a weekly steam mop and they're good as new.

I'm tempted to go for some type of tile in the kitchen, but I suppose that doesn't help the staining.. 

 

6 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

 

Wood is surprisingly resilient - we laid pre-waxed boards upstairs and recently redecorated one bedroom. Floor was quite grubby and we used an Osmo product and some elbow grease and it came up beautifully.

 

Seems to me wood is easy to restore, but it does require a lot of ongoing work and being more careful. Any type of liquid that stays on it for some time just gets embedded in the texture, like it or not. 

 

6 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

Recommend investing in washable paint if possible, we have that in the hall and it does clean up well (fingerprints etc) whereas the regular finish just rubs off the wall.

 

Good call, have a small kid. 

 

6 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

I really don't like carpet as in our old house I was horrified at what used to come out when we had them washed annually.

 

Carpet doesn't feel super modern, but has a bunch of pros and cons

- Pro: 

+ sound echo - I'm not a big fan of echoey rooms, both for cinema quality as well as just living quality reasons

+ warmer to touch (bare feet?)

+ doesn't tend to really 'absorb' colors (e.g. bleach)

 

- Con

- harder to clean spills 

- fluffs coming off

- looks a bit antiquated 

 

But as a curveball, I'm tempted to go for amtico in most places.... 

 

 

6 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

As a result the new house is shoes off at door which was borne of necessity as it took 18 months to get a stable clean surface outside after we moved in.

 

Good idea in general.. although I think I like the idea of ground floor = shoes on, top floor = shoes off?

 

6 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

Our kitchen has a putty coloured composite stone (Silstone?) and it is pretty stain resistant. We have a Hacker kitchen and mixed glass and matt doors, gloss really show up streaks and fingerprints.

Yeah gloss doesn't seem like a great idea, and some 'grey pattern' wokrtop seems ideal to hide both calcium and other stains

 

6 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

We have Neff steam ovens (one dedicated and two regular turned out to be steam also) and never had any problems with the water cassette.

 

Ah it was just a joke

 

6 hours ago, ProDave said:

SWMBO has a thing about toilets.  She will not allow a toilet where the U bend is a visible part of the toilet, because it collects dust and is a pain to clean.

 

So all our toilets had to pass the "easy clean" test. foe example by having the U bend bit enclosed and out of sight.

Good point

 

6 hours ago, ProDave said:

In general lots of things got scrutinised and ones chosen that don't have ledges for dust to collect.

Would love to hear more examples!
 

6 hours ago, ProDave said:

We bought an electric oven that has pyrolysis self cleaning. Brilliant.  but that does NOT clean within the 3 bits of glass that makes up the glass door and with no way to dismantle that to clean them that does not risk breaking the glass.

 

Thanks, indeed pyrolysis seems like an important option!

 

 

[Gav_P]

Dogs

Cats

Children

 

Avoid all these and your home will remain spotless! 

[Bitpipe]

18 minutes ago, puntloos said:

Slight anecdote I just ran in today: don't get a bath with a drain plug in the middle. Rinsing it out is much more cumbersome with water randomly 'overshooting' the plughole. 

 

 

Our baths have central plug with tap coming out of wall at middle of bath (long side). We also have a shower hose for each bath which makes sluicing it out easy.

 

18 minutes ago, puntloos said:

Seems to me wood is easy to restore, but it does require a lot of ongoing work and being more careful. Any type of liquid that stays on it for some time just gets embedded in the texture, like it or not. 

 

 

We do nothing to ours apart from hoover and a monthly go over with a steam mop. They were pre-treated and are still quite water resistant. The daughter's floor came up lovely after four years of no treatment - was just an hour or so of elbow grease. Sanded out a few stubborn water stains and they blended in well with the OSMO product. Serious dings and dents can be raised up with damp cloth and hot iron and then sanded flush, although most you never notice as its a natural product.

 

Issue with tiles is always the grout - gets absolutely filthy so either go for dark grout or be prepared to get the toothbrush out regularly. Amtico or Karndean is much better, can scratch if you drag something heavy over them.

 

18 minutes ago, puntloos said:

 

Carpet doesn't feel super modern, but has a bunch of pros and cons

- Pro: 

+ sound echo - I'm not a big fan of echoey rooms, both for cinema quality as well as just living quality reasons

+ warmer to touch (bare feet?)

+ doesn't tend to really 'absorb' colors (e.g. bleach)

 

if you have UFH then even tile will be warm under foot. Wood, resin etc are naturally 'warm' as they don't conduct heat away from the foot.

 

Major issue with carpet (and we had nice pure wool) is that it absorbs dust, dirt, dead skin, pet hair, crumbs etc and even the best vacuum only gets some out.

 

When we would have it cleaned annually the sucked up water was jet black. We also were in toddler stage at that house  - those stains never came out no matter what we did. Sudocreme was the worst.

 

If you're having a shoe policy then it should be front door or don't bother - we've never had anyone have an issue with it and nice soft resin underfoot is quite pleasant to walk on.

[Onoff]

34 minutes ago, puntloos said:

Slight anecdote I just ran in today: don't get a bath with a drain plug in the middle.

 

Oh I don't know...turn over onto your front when the bath's draining and give yourself a swirly, gurgly treat...

[joth]

>Cleaning dreams?

Avoid the need for cleaning by designing-out sources of dirt. 

e.g. design an airtight house with MVHR that filters incoming air, to remove a lot of dust issues. The more urban the house the more the benefit.

No open fireplace, or any combustion source in the house.

Clear and easy to use storage place for shoes and outside coats, and comfortable inviting place to remove them.

If you have pets, a pet-designated area without them needing to roam the whole house. Ideally in an MVHR 'extract' zone so their smells and fur doesn't travel around the rest of the house.

 

What other sources of dirt can be designed out?

 

then  removing dirt that does get in: design floor areas to support a robotic vacuum cleaner. Carpets are sub-optimal, as are uneven thresholds between rooms. Reduce number of stepped levels.

 

Look to industrial catering and hospitals. Stainless steel kitchen and pantry, "wet room" toilets etc  designed to allow periodic deep steam cleaning. There's probably clear design guidance/standards for these, but I can't find it.

 

 

Then, if you're like us and can't abide cleaning, what about design elements that simplify hiring a professional cleaner? no ideas come to mind other than clear storage for cleaning equipment and a big sink for them to use. maybe a door lock and security system (inc. a safe?) that makes it comfortable letting them in even when not at home (a distant memory, but it may yet happen again).

 

[Bitpipe]

13 hours ago, joth said:

>Cleaning dreams?

Avoid the need for cleaning by designing-out sources of dirt. 

e.g. design an airtight house with MVHR that filters incoming air, to remove a lot of dust issues. The more urban the house the more the benefit.

No open fireplace, or any combustion source in the house.

Clear and easy to use storage place for shoes and outside coats, and comfortable inviting place to remove them.

If you have pets, a pet-designated area without them needing to roam the whole house. Ideally in an MVHR 'extract' zone so their smells and fur doesn't travel around the rest of the house.

 

What other sources of dirt can be designed out?

 

then  removing dirt that does get in: design floor areas to support a robotic vacuum cleaner. Carpets are sub-optimal, as are uneven thresholds between rooms. Reduce number of stepped levels.

 

Look to industrial catering and hospitals. Stainless steel kitchen and pantry, "wet room" toilets etc  designed to allow periodic deep steam cleaning. There's probably clear design guidance/standards for these, but I can't find it.

 

 

Then, if you're like us and can't abide cleaning, what about design elements that simplify hiring a professional cleaner? no ideas come to mind other than clear storage for cleaning equipment and a big sink for them to use. maybe a door lock and security system (inc. a safe?) that makes it comfortable letting them in even when not at home (a distant memory, but it may yet happen again).

 

 

We don't have a cleaner (had one in our previous pre-self build life). Always promise that we'll get one when then the house is properly tidy post build so 4 years on my money is still safe.

 

However our fingerprint operated door would be perfect as you're not issuing keys etc and can revoke access whenever.

 

We adopted some of your principals above

- a continuous surface for the whole GF (resin) no joints etc to get dirty.

- shoes off on entry, turtle mats at thresholds and a shoe drawer / bench in the hall

 - agree that MVHR reduces dust, pollen, leaf litter etc coming in - you just need to look at what the filter captures each month

 

I'll have a word with the cat on containing her roaming, may not succeed on that front.

[Gone West]

Never owned one so never tried, but are rimless toilets easier to keep clean?

[Oz07]

10 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

Never owned one so never tried, but are rimless toilets easier to keep clean?

I've got one now. I dunno I suppose they are but it's not anything life changing

[Gone West]

1 minute ago, Oz07 said:

I suppose they are but it's not anything life changing

Phew, at least I haven't missed out on that one then .

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, PeterStarck said:

Never owned one so never tried, but are rimless toilets easier to keep clean?

 

Much easier to clean...according to SWMBO! ?

 

Tbh the flush/ "scouring" action on our Bernstein pan is superb. Really shifts "stuff" if you know what I mean. 

 

https://bernstein-badshop.com/rimless-wall-hung-toilet-wall-hung-washdown-wc-nt2038-nano-protection-with-soft-close-seat-included

 

I get moaned at much less now...

[Ferdinand]

On 10/09/2020 at 17:57, Gav_P said:

Dogs

Cats

Children

 

Avoid all these and your home will remain spotless! 

 

Does not work.

[Oz07]

14 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

Much easier to clean...according to SWMBO! ?

 

Tbh the flush/ "scouring" action on our Bernstein pan is superb. Really shifts "stuff" if you know what I mean. 

 

https://bernstein-badshop.com/rimless-wall-hung-toilet-wall-hung-washdown-wc-nt2038-nano-protection-with-soft-close-seat-included

 

I get moaned at much less now...

Yes the flush action does seem stronger

[AliG]

Wall mounted toilets so you can mop under them. I believe rimless are easier to clean. 

 

Keep wood/laminate away from sinks and baths in bathrooms as they will blow and are hard to clean without damaging the surface eventually. So no laminate countertops and bath fronts.

 

Gloss kitchen cabinets show fingerprints, however they are easier to clean and less likely to stain.

 

My kitchen designer says not to recess the induction hob as dirt builds up n the 2mm gap around the edge. She is adamant that they should be mounted proud of the worktop.

 

A sink wide enough to take a full oven sheet flat in the bottom of it. In our old house the sink was narrow so things stuck out at an angle and you couldn't steep them. Avoid very square cornered sinks - the corners are hard to clean. We have a white silestone sink in the kitchen, it gets easily stained, although cleans with Barkeepers friend, but stainless steel gets easily scratched.

 

A waste disposal so you don't have to collect rotting food for recycling.

 

A full splashback in kitchens/utility room and not an upstand. Washable paint I guess would be a cheaper alternative.

 

Water based gloss not oil based on woodwork as oil based turns yellow faster.

 

Walk in showers to avoid all the various rubber gaskets around doors that need cleaned and look horrible after a few years.

 

A mistake we made - do not get rough surfaced, stone looking tiles. They are a nightmare to clean.

 

Big cupboard in the hall or somewhere else if you tend to come in via he garage or back door for coats, shoes etc. Otherwise they end up lying all over the place.

 

No carpets, especially light coloured. My wife was insistent on light carpets in our last house. On the stairs they looked knackered after a few years. The edges turned grey as they never get as well cleaned as the rest of the carpet.

 

Two dishwashers if you have the space.

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by AliG

[Onoff]

29 minutes ago, AliG said:

I believe rimless are easier to clean. 

 

So SWMBO here tells me! ?

 

Seriously, we were only yesterday discussing how good the combo of the Geberit frame and Bernstein, wall mount rimless pan here is. 

 

(This on the back of the upstairs ensuite WC with old school cistern &  floor mount pan that seems to have a little leak somewhere).

Edited October 28, 2020 by Onoff

[markc]

5 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

So SWMBO here tells me! ?

 

Seriously, we were only yesterday discussing how good the combo of the Geberit frame and Bernstein, wall mount rimless pan here is. 

 

(This on the back of the upstairs ensuite WC with old school cistern &  floor mount pan that seems to have a little leak somewhere).

Geberit frame is great .... which reminds me i must cure the creak mine has developed as everything has settled.

[recoveringbuilder]

Cathedral windows, how are you meant to clean them ? If I stand on the floor the top of my windows is around 5.5m high, had to clean them a couple of weeks ago, standing on top of a step ladder with an extending window brush!

[Onoff]

3 minutes ago, markc said:

Geberit frame is great .... which reminds me i must cure the creak mine has developed as everything has settled.

 

Creak? A fixing issue, something loose?

 

The frame side of my install doesn't make a sound. The soft close seat is though on a bit tight I think and creaks a bit opening and closing. Keep meaning to strip and smear some silicone grease in there. 

[markc]

5 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Creak? A fixing issue, something loose?

 

The frame side of my install doesn't make a sound. The soft close seat is though on a bit tight I think and creaks a bit opening and closing. Keep meaning to strip and smear some silicone grease in there. 

Yes i reckon its a fixing, i fitted it on an angle to the wall ... similar to a corner unit, probably one of the slotted fixings moving a bit.