Hello again - work has finally started

[Rossek9]

Hi Ali,

 

Nice to see things are progressing well onsite.

 

Just a quick question re the  Porotherm block. I notice you say  no perpend vents are required. Is this also the case if the inner leaf is timber frame?

 

We have had some timber frame prices back and as expected they are more than we were hoping 

 

Also your windows aren't being supplied by ADW are they?

Edited January 28, 2017 by Rossek9

[AliG]

Hi Ross,

 

If you have timber frame, or SIP inner leaf then you need perpends I'm afraid. It's one of the reasons I wasn't so enthusiastic about SIPs.

 

The windows are from ADW. Any reason for asking?

 

Al

[Rossek9]

Thanks Al, that's a shame would we would have liked to have not had perpends as well.

 

No reason really. We are waiting on our price coming back from ADW and I noticed you had mentioned your windows were 0.8 u valve as well, so guessed you might be getting them from there. We went the the showroom in Cumbernauld a few times and they do look great. 

[AliG]

Yes I could have got cheaper windows, but I really liked the look of the Rationel windows particularly the ironmongery and the sashes. We are going with the rough granite black finish as I think it looks a lot less like a commercial building than the smooth aluminium finish. The colour is Noir 2100 sable.

 

We are in the process of getting quotes to get all the rainwater goods, soffits and fascia boards in aluminium to match this which I think will look good as well as being very low maintenance. I suspect that black wooden soffits and fascias would need painted constantly or they would look tatty quite quickly.

 

One of the things that keeps down the U-value is that quite a lot of the windows don't open, particularly in the hall where they are large units. The non openers have thinner sashes and the larger the window the higher percentage of glass. Some of the windows have a U-value below 0.7.

 

The Auraplus windows also come laminated as standard which I wanted.

[ProDave]

I'm another one with Rationel windows from ADW.

 

I had about 6 quotes, and Rationel came out the cheapest, and they were second best in terms of Uw values, only beaten very slightly by Internorm who were twice the price.
 

[Stones]

6 hours ago, ProDave said:

I'm another one with Rationel windows from ADW.

 

I had about 6 quotes, and Rationel came out the cheapest, and they were second best in terms of Uw values, only beaten very slightly by Internorm who were twice the price.
 

 

Another ADW / Rational customer here. Like @ProDave I had a few quotes, but ADW eventually came back with the best price. We also went with the granite / slightly textured ALU finish rather than smooth and have to say really pleased with how they look both inside and out. I had my cills custom made by a firm in Glasgow (MSP Scotland) to suit our ICF build system.  They also quoted me for matching rainwater goods but sadly my budget wouldn't stretch that far.

[Rossek9]

16 hours ago, AliG said:

Yes I could have got cheaper windows, but I really liked the look of the Rationel windows particularly the ironmongery and the sashes. We are going with the rough granite black finish as I think it looks a lot less like a commercial building than the smooth aluminium finish. The colour is Noir 2100 sable.

 

We are in the process of getting quotes to get all the rainwater goods, soffits and fascia boards in aluminium to match this which I think will look good as well as being very low maintenance. I suspect that black wooden soffits and fascias would need painted constantly or they would look tatty quite quickly.

 

One of the things that keeps down the U-value is that quite a lot of the windows don't open, particularly in the hall where they are large units. The non openers have thinner sashes and the larger the window the higher percentage of glass. Some of the windows have a U-value below 0.7.

 

The Auraplus windows also come laminated as standard which I wanted.

 

I am also keen of the textured finish. Thinking that it might not show up scratches as easily (one of the smooth finished windows in the showroom had a few light scratches on the frame that could be seen if looking closely).

 

We have been looking aluminium rainwater stuff as well, as I not keen on maintenance if I am honest...............even considering fake grass (don't shoot me ) 

 

8 hours ago, Stones said:

 

Another ADW / Rational customer here. Like @ProDave I had a few quotes, but ADW eventually came back with the best price. We also went with the granite / slightly textured ALU finish rather than smooth and have to say really pleased with how they look both inside and out. I had my cills custom made by a firm in Glasgow (MSP Scotland) to suit our ICF build system.  They also quoted me for matching rainwater goods but sadly my budget wouldn't stretch that far.

 

Thanks for the info, I might be worth speaking the MSP as well and see about sills and rainwater stuff.

 

[AliG]

I was finally up on the scaffolding to see how things look from first floor level. I was still probably 450mm below the finished floor level but it gives and idea.

 

The concrete people have insisted that the walls are braced before they put the first floor slab on on Monday.

 

There's a lot more steel than I expected when we started.

 

Edited February 10, 2017 by AliG

[jamiehamy]

That's fairly coming on. Is the bracing in case of an errant beam coming at 90degrees and taking a section if wall out? I can't see it doing much else than a safeguard? 

[ToughButterCup]

On 29/01/2017 at 07:30, Rossek9 said:

[...]

I not keen on maintenance if I am honest...............even considering fake grass (don't shoot me ) 

[...]

 

Grass was invented by wimmin to keep men out of the way for a few hour every week. I'm with you on this one. How many hours of my life have been wasted by grass? And I'll never get hem back

[ProDave]

I am not sure what your first floor make up will be, but you your electrician may curse the fact there are no holes in any of those steel to feed cables through.
 

[Tennentslager]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

I am not sure what your first floor make up will be, but you your electrician may curse the fact there are no holes in any of those steel to feed cables through.
 

Can you not drill a hole through the steel for your cables?

 

[Steptoe]

2 minutes ago, Tennentslager said:

Can you not drill a hole through the steel for your cables?

 

What with,? 

[Tennentslager]

6 minutes ago, Steptoe said:

What with,? 

Magnetic drill press?

[Jeremy Harris]

48 minutes ago, Tennentslager said:

Magnetic drill press?

 

One of the most useful things I've ever borrowed. 

 

I didn't believe how well they would stick to steel until I used one, years ago, when doing an "evening job" as a sideline, helping my brother out by fitting an engine room alarm system to the Torpoint Ferry (it was in Falmouth Docks being cut and stretched, and my brother had the contract for the engines and hydraulics, but gave me the job of designing and fitting the engine room alarm system).  I borrowed his magnetic drill loads of times, to drill holes in steel bulkheads.  Brilliant bit of kit, but not something I could ever justify buying.

[AliG]

I think as you say @jamiehamy the bracing is in case they apply sideways pressure and bring down a wall.

 

@ProDave the floor is 200mm thick concrete slabs plus insulation and screed on top. So I'm sure the electrician will have no problem drilling through it . The ceiling is dropped down 100m below this for cabling and there is a corridor where the floor is only 100mm thick so that there will be a main route for pipework, mvhr pipework etc.

 

I believe that the architect has allowed for pre cut holes where the cabling will go upstairs.

 

Last night the email came through from the architect with the latest costs. There is indeed more steel than expected to the point of it being 4x the expected cost 

[Jeremy Harris]

The braces are essential to prevent buckling failure of the yet-to-be-tied inner wall skin, under the compressive load of the first floor, applied to the top of the inner wall skin.  Once the two wall skins are tied together they become a great deal more resistant to buckling failure under a compressive load, because the slenderness ratio has decreased.

 

If you want to try and get your head around this you can either read up on buckling, crippling and slenderness ratios under compressive loads (tip: search for work by Euler, the 18th c mathematician), or you can do a simple experiment. 

 

Take an ordinary straight drinking straw (not the fancy ones with bends in) and stand it vertically on a hard surface.  Push down on the top end with your finger and you'll find that it will buckle and bend in half under a quite modest load.

 

Take another straw, and this time just very, very gently hold the mid-point between the thumb and forefinger of one hand (simulating the bracing) and push down on the top end with the other hand.  What you'll find is that the maximum compressive load that the braced straw will take is a lot greater than that of the unbraced straw.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2017 by JSHarris
typo - "19th" when I meant "18th"

[Steptoe]

8 hours ago, Tennentslager said:

Magnetic drill press?

Have you seen the price of those things!!!!!!!

My mate has one, usually used to drill them before they get erected. 

It wouldn't be the easiest thing to be lugging about and throwing onto steels above your head sideways,

 

Oh well, just be an extra on the customers bill I suppose 

 

[jamiehamy]

I used one to drill into our steels - lovely piece of kit,  however ours was a bit older and the user interface was poor - too easy to de-icer the magnetic by accident. I always put a bungee cord round it in case. It was used once - when someone unplugged the power and once when I did indeed press the wrong button. Newer models are better.  

[Construction Channel]

8 minutes ago, Steptoe said:

Have you seen the price of those things!!!!!!!

 

I thought £350 was quite reasonable  I only wish i had bought it before i fabricated my steels.

 

[Steptoe]

That's cheap @Construction Channel

My mates was a little further into almost 5 figures,!!!! 

And a tad bigger,

But , he does do stuff slighter bigger than you'd find in the average house,

I never asked him if he had a smaller one, it just happened to be the one he had in his van the day I saw it and blagged it off him for a job. 

[Tennentslager]

Have a look at the Milwaukee cordless one. Magnet even stays energized with the battery out.

Think it said 29lbs weight...but around $2500?

[Construction Channel]

1 minute ago, Steptoe said:

That's cheap

 

thats what i thought, i had briefly looked into them before and just dismissed the idea when i saw a 4 figure tag, then bored one night i looked a bit harder and then this, delivered next day from a proper company, up to 40mm holes.

 

and i am still very impressed with it, even the broaches arnt as bad as i thought they would be. 20mm was about £20 IIRC so happy days  

[Steptoe]

I'd seriously consider getting myself one of them for work at that price,

 

ps, get yourself some proper cutting compound, 

 

[Onoff]

12 minutes ago, Steptoe said:

Have you seen the price of those things!!!!!!!

My mate has one, usually used to drill them before they get erected. 

It wouldn't be the easiest thing to be lugging about and throwing onto steels above your head sideways,

 

Oh well, just be an extra on the customers bill I suppose 

 

 

You can get diddy ones not much bigger than an SDS drill tbh. I asked for it from out of our yard to be told the little one had been nicked! Had to use the big beast. Still a magic bit of kit.