Extension- Last Stuff.

[joe90]

Zoot, I have these in my workshop roof and I have tons of stuff up there as storage.

[zoothorn]

45 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Zoot, I have these in my workshop roof and I have tons of stuff up there as storage.

Ok good thats reassuring, but i bet you dont have an ape up there.

 

What's the idea re. Material.. i was picturing rockwool slab, like i did pushing up into the workshop ceiling, but is this stuff not the right idea? When Peter says put one ontop the other, that sounds morelike what the grant co added in my loft over my adjacent freezing bedrooms,  just whacked 300 mm of modern grey fluff onto the 150 mm or so orange fibreglass old stuff.
 

I must say though, that i didnt feel a jot of difference afterwards: this concerns me (the ceilings being the same 2.3 m h). Will i not feel any difference in here too, doing approximately the same thing is my concern. Or is the rockwool slab stuff what's suggested?

 

 

 

 

 

 

fh3 sMe huight

[Russell griffiths]

Not slab

loft roll fluffy stuff comes on a big roll with cuts in it so you can tear it apart at the desired width, don’t cut it accurately just get it squished in like Peter said use a stick to unroll it so you don’t need to clamber around much. 

 

Its a mornings work at most even for an ape. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Russell griffiths

[Onoff]

6 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

fh3 sMe huight

 

At last a question I can understand! ?

[zoothorn]

Just now, Russell griffiths said:

Not slab

loft roll fluffy stuff comes on a big roll with cuts in it so you can tear it apart at the desired width, don’t cut it accurately just get it squished in like Peter said use a stick to unroll it so you don’t need to clamber around much. 

Ah ok so in my loft, restricted access lets call it, the only stuff you'd ever use is the fluffy roll stuff? Im needing the best insulation idea i can really, but without stupid extra expense.

 

I guess for eg pir would never be used in this situation up here then?

[zoothorn]

4 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

At last a question I can understand! ?

 Haha. Ive no idea wtf it came fr9m, its these stupif

£ numbers tha5 keep fkn haapening or summat.

[Pocster]

19 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

At last a question I can understand! ?

The answer to that question is 42

[Onoff]

4 minutes ago, pocster said:

The answer to that question is 42

 

I bet the space up there is big, really big. 

[dangti6]

When you add the loft hatch, insulate it. 

[PeterW]

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Ah ok so in my loft, restricted access lets call it, the only stuff you'd ever use is the fluffy roll stuff? Im needing the best insulation idea i can really, but without stupid extra expense.

 

I guess for eg pir would never be used in this situation up here then?

Fluffy roll, yes. 
 

PIR, No... as you don’t have the access down the  sides of the skielings to insulate them and join it up so fluffy roll Is your friend. 
 

Get a big plastic sheet to cover the floor too as you don’t want it in the new shag pile carpet as it’s a nightmare to hoover out. 

[zoothorn]

12 hours ago, dangti6 said:

When you add the loft hatch, insulate it. 

 

Yup thanks dangti6- seen how the grant Co did my main loft hatch like so, will copy this. Or even a big pir offcut glued on here if I find one.

 

 

[zoothorn]

@PeterW ok get that, got big sheets to cover the room ok.

 

Still concerned about the effectiveness of this fluff tho, after noticing no change to my kichen/ bathroom (share a loft) and two main bedrooms (main house loft above) after the grant Co added Id guess 200mm min on top old 'glass fluff in both lofts (as much as it was appreciated etc).

 

But I guess I just have no choice but this stuff, & whatever the outcome, still no choice but try this addition job.

 

I wonder what a typical 90's lets say bungalow might have, being a loft immediately above every room. Ive never known one of these to be stupid-cold, only ever super-warm. Would a modern one have say PIR in its ceiling? or is this fluff still the go-to ceiling insulation stuff?

[PeterW]

22 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Still concerned about the effectiveness of this fluff tho,

I have 400mm in mine and trust me it works !!!

 

23 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Would a modern one have say PIR in its ceiling? or is this fluff still the go-to ceiling insulation stuff?

Yes it would have the same fluffy stuff, it is around 1/3rd as effective as PIR for the same thickness hence needing about 3 times the thickness. 
 

Your issue is the big stone walls - they are sapping the heat so every bit of insulation elsewhere is helping. They need to be your next project to get the walls insulated and the gaps for the wind to whistle through blocked up. 

[zoothorn]

8 minutes ago, PeterW said:

I have 400mm in mine and trust me it works !!!

 

Yes it would have the same fluffy stuff, it is around 1/3rd as effective as PIR for the same thickness hence needing about 3 times the thickness. 
 

Your issue is the big stone walls - they are sapping the heat so every bit of insulation elsewhere is helping. They need to be your next project to get the walls insulated and the gaps for the wind to whistle through blocked up. 

 

Ok so it must be effective then, & as my new loft as it is with minimum 100mm (across joists so I guess big cold air gaps below on most of the the pB top) putting a good ammount in, should, give me some results. Still concerned it'll do nowt, but gotta do it even so.

 

But the big stone walls seems to act not-so-bad in both the big main room (albeit huge stove heat always needed 1st, but the floor's just concrete on clay/ super cold/ my feeling is this the main cold culprit).. & in workshop too: the stone wall 'end' is similar in both rooms in area if the knock-thru gap taken into account in room above- its always warm 'modern bungalow' feel below. Nothing shouts at me "this old stone wall needs lining" like the 1) door needed, and 2) fingers x'd the ceiling needs doing.

 

I do admit this is wishful thinking.. but it does seems to be based on findings, not guesswork.

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

Ok so it must be effective then, & as my new loft as it is with minimum 100mm (across joists so I guess big cold air gaps below on most of the the pB top) putting a good ammount in, should, give me some results. Still concerned it'll do nowt, but gotta do it even so.

OK ...

 

First layer should be between the joists and you just need to put cheap clay plant pots over the tops of the downlights to stop them overheating. 
 

Next layer of 200mm goes across the joists and covers up the first one. 
 

Last layer of 100mm goes across the joists but staggered over the previous layer so it stops any gaps straight through. 
 

Get it tucked to the edges but not too tight so that you get the benefit. Don’t think you’ll need more than a couple of big rolls - £12 or so in Wickes. 

[zoothorn]

@PeterW ok thanks for that- putting it in seems the easier bit, the hatch & getting access to the majority of the loft- its 16sqm- without crashing thru is gonna be the tricky bit. Even with a stick I still gotta tuck in twds eaves areas, so I gotta 'swim' over it lying flat, boards over joists surely.

 

So 200mm to start between joists too? then I reuse orange 100mm fluff last I guess.

 

Any stuff much better than the next? I dont have b&q or wickes.. just TP, Jewsons, Huw's Gray. screwfix I dont think do it.

 

[heard that P.Faith 'new york' song y'day on radio.. what a splendid song].

Edited December 9, 2020 by zoothorn

[PeterW]

Just use the builder cheap $h!t between the rafters and then put the decent stuff on top. 
 

You can stand on those rafters - they really will

take your weight ...!! 250kg hot water tanks only get spread across 4 rafters for safety factor, they will comfortably sit on 2 with no issues and that’s a permanent load. Just don’t jump between them..!!

[zoothorn]

@PeterW ..unless builder cheapo stuff isn't 600mm W tho I guess. But I get the point. thx

[zoothorn]

Is the idea here to put hatch bang in middle to get best access with stick poking etc? Im hampered by the bed, heavy metal (I dont mean skulls on) a sod to move now.. so thinking keep in place, put hatch end of bed: this means a ceiling mid-hatch point approx 2/5ths from the french doors.

 

It means I'll have to sride about, or 'swim' flat over the joists to get rolls into door area/ bedhead end. It does mean tho if i need to get up again, I can leave bed as is: perhaps the more sensible position just due to this.

[PeterW]

Just walk on the rafters... if you are that worried, do you have any deck board left over from doing the outdoor decking..? If so, just put some lengths of that down the middle and make sure it spans 3 joists and you screw it down. It won’t matter about insulation above /below it as there will only be a small amount (2 planks width is plenty) as you’re not using it for storage. 

[zoothorn]

@PeterW ok made a start, cut a pizza slice bit out. Seems more orange thann i was expecting above.. maybe 200mm.. anyway, my crust end of my pizza slice is on the joist. Ive found my mid ceiling point. So working my way along this joist.. what size am i aiming for? If i have call it 600 mm 'down' the room twds french doors, i need the shorter side of the rectangle corresponding with the joist line. If that is the idea is a rectangular hatch.

 

Am i cutting flush with the joist? Assume so, no pb lip or anything.

[zoothorn]

[dangti6]

No going back now.

[daiking]

No ceiling cat.

 

#DiSapPoINtEd

[zoothorn]

 

9 minutes ago, daiking said:

No ceiling cat.

 

#DiSapPoINtEd

No, there is an animal of some sort up there.