Which devices are boosting your electricity bill?

[AliG]

Hi,

 

We probably have the highest electricity use of anyone on Buildhub.

 

I am coming in at around 17000kWh per year, maybe 25% of this is for our Tesla.

 

We generate around 3500kWh from out solar panels, he 17000 is a net number.

 

We have a pool and the pump and dehumidifier use a to of electricity, but I wanted o get an idea if there were other things in the house using an unexpected amount.

 

I bought a WiFi plus that monitors energy usage. They may not be that accurate, but I wanted to get an idea.

 

I will put this into a spreadsheet once I have more data.

 

I was pleasantly surprised to find the usage from our MVHR was very low.

 

We have 3x Dantherm HCV/HCH5. Yesterday, I tested one of these and on the lowest speed setting, which I have them set on 90% of the time, it was only using 14W.

 

My suspicion was that watching TV on our projection screen, which is pretty much standard practice was using a lot of electricity, so I wanted to check.

 

The sound system uses around 100W, which is less than I expected, the projector uses 280W or 350W in HDR mode. The shocking thing is that if the screen is blank and it has gone to sleep it still uses 280W so that you don't need to wait for the bulb to warm up. I reckon that especially during lockdown it is on around 10 hours a day and often people just leave it switched on when they leave the room or don't realise it is on as the screen has gone to sleep.

 

So watching TV is using 380W, which means it is using around 4kWh per day, or 1500kWh a year. So almost £200 a year.

 

The one that surprised me was the Sky Q box which uses 27W whether or not it is on standby, so double what the MVHR uses. It goes into eco mode for 3 hours a night which won't really make much of a dent. So just over 200kWh a year.

 

We have 2 network switches, 9 WiFi access points, a DSL router, a smart light controller and 4x CCTV cameras with a PVR. All these use 114W, so that is 1000kWh per year.

 

I am trying to think which of these devices could be put on a smart plug and turned off at night. The trouble is that someone is bound to want to use something at an odd hour and complain.

 

I need to check various Alexas, Sonos speakers, Sky Q minis etc which are all on 24 hours per day. Having looked up the specs the Alexas only use a few watts, I am suspicious of the Sky boxes but they don't have a hard drive in them like the main box so hopefully will be a lot lower.

 

One thing I have done is programmed all the main lights in the house to switch off at 8.10 am during the school run and 10pm after bed time so that if anyone leaves lights on they don't stay on too long.

 

 

[pdf27]

1.7kW full time excluding the Tesla - ouch!

I'm wondering if it's worth getting some sort of kWh meter with split CT to get a better idea of where that power is going, starting from the consumer unit if possible. You've found almost 400W already, but unless there is a huge amount going to the pool I suspect you might have got something else going on.

[AliG]

Tbh I think the pool uses an enormous amount and I can’t do anything about that.

 

The kitchen has two sets of LED spots. My daughter in particular refuses just to put on one set. Together they use 200W.

 

What often happens is someone switches them on in the morning before it is fully bright and then they don’t even notice they are on still in hours later. I just rebooted the smart lighting box when I unplugged it to find its power consumption but I think it records it so I am going to look and see how long these lights are on in the average day. Wouldn’t be surprised if it is 8 hours so that is almost 600kWh a year. 
 

They also run the washing machine, tumble dryer and dishwasher pretty much once a day. They all use around 2kWh a time I think. So that is almost another 2000kWh a year.

 

I reckon the dishwasher only needs to be run every 1.5 days when I load it and often find the washing machine run half full.

 

The trouble is convincing the family that I am not just being tight. I reckon I could lose 1000kWh a year from not excessively running these items but they aren’t interested. Of course, as I point out it will also reduce wear and tear and use of detergent etc.

 

 

 

 

[ProDave]

And I complain at our average base load of about 300W

 

I would suggest you turn the pool off completely for 24 hours and measure your base load for that period. That will tell you how much the pool is using.

[AliG]

Good idea. Not sure the pool guy would approve. Might try for an hour or something like that

[pdf27]

• Could try something like https://www.amazon.com/CrocSee-CRS-022B-Frequency-Multimeter-Transformer/dp/B07K3S4K9L/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=clamp+on+kwh+meter&qid=1596964572&sr=8-6 (The UK version of it obviously - too lazy to search properly) and clamp it on the wire going to the pool for say a week. That would give you a pretty good idea of average pool use.
• 200W sounds a lot for an LED system - how big is your kitchen???
• Does your dishwasher take hot fill? Most do, and provided you're not on a combi that will give you both better cleaning and reduced electricity consumption at the same time.
• If you're running the drier every day then depending on the type it might pay you to upgrade - the heat pump versions use a lot less power than older types.

[AliG]

8 minutes ago, pdf27 said:

200W sounds a lot for an LED system - how big is your kitchen???

It is 70 sq metres.

 

9 minutes ago, pdf27 said:

If you're running the drier every day then depending on the type it might pay you to upgrade - the heat pump versions use a lot less power than older types.

It is a heat pump dryer, it is just used excessively, for example towels apparently need to be washed after every use!

 

So having Googled the pool pump manual, you can actually get an output of how much electricity it is using direct from the pump.

 

As set up at the moment it is using 600W for 15 hours a day. So that is 3500kWH a year.

 

At the lower speed setting the power consumption reduces to 330W, so almost halves. We did try running less per day at one point, but the filtration system didn't like it.I need to check if it has accidentally been moved up a speed as this would be a nice saving.

 

The dehumidifier I am trying to find the spec for.

[SuperJohnG]

Thats a lot of power. 

I recall as a child my dad telling me to turn the lights off behind me...it would do his box in. I never understood what the drama was. Some rooms we had were running 8-10 of those old 80 watt reflector bulbs. I never understood till I got a house and had a bill to pay. 

 

As a general approach to reducing usage I think we as a nation don't realise how wasteful we are and how little changes can help. 

E.g. I use facewash every morning..normally for years three pumps on the thing to get the foam, don't know why it was three but thats what I always done. The penny dropped one day and I used only 1 pump - face clean as normal. But now my face wash lasts three times as long.. hundreds of wee simple changes add up. (Bit of a random story,lol) 

[AliG]

I have noticed the exact same thing re the use of soap toothpaste etc. At the amount I use it would last three times longer

[AliG]

I checked the spec of the kitchen LEDs. They are rated at 7 W but appear to actually use roughly 11W each

[SuperJohnG]

Re: washing of towels and drying them everyday...thats crazy. 

 

Maybe you should just send the family away for a holiday somewhere...it might actually save you money! ?

[ProDave]

What I found useful was measure the usage over  week when you are away.  That will give the true base load of essentials, like mvhr, treatment plant, Fridge / freezer, and the few things that must be left on standby (in my test just the router and an old sky HD box because it was set to record some stuff while away)

 

Anything above that true base load is stuff you are using.

 

I also did that another time but left the tv's etc on standby so also had a measure of their standby use.

[AliG]

Good idea. Of course we won’t be away until next July now!

 

I have tried this in the last for a few hours. I might try again.

Gas usage for hot water and the pool is easier to get.

Edited August 9, 2020 by AliG

[recoveringbuilder]

I’ve been wondering about this too although not to the extent of the op, we are with bulb energy , cheapest tariff for this area however I’m currently paying £76 per month and it still doesn’t seem to be enough. There’s only two of us in the house, I use the dishwasher every second day  on a quick wash (45mins) and the  washing machine about twice a week on a 30 deg wash, no electric showers, TVs on a good proportion of the day as I tend to put it in and forget about it, I do boil the kettle a lot as I’m a coffee addict, light in the lounge for an hour or so at night and cabinet lighting in kitchen the same but they’re all led. Electric oven maybe twice a week and of course the pellet stove uses electric to fire up , just can’t see where it’s all going!

[Nickfromwales]

54 minutes ago, AliG said:

I checked the spec of the kitchen LEDs. They are rated at 7 W but appear to actually use roughly 11W each

Light plus waste heat?

[mike2016]

If your house is as big as I think maybe its time to buy more solar PV panels and a battery to timeshift off peak electricity (with a more agile tariff) and generate a lot more during the day. A pair of Tesla powerwalls for example and see if Tesla solar tiles are coming to the UK soon? Ground mount array might also be an option or a small wind turbine depending on your location? 

You're prioritizing usage which is the best approach but as you can't do anything about the pool etc, maybe time to look at a heat pump for the pool and doubling down on your Solar PV capacity? North England might not be the sunny south east but your solar supplier should be able to model different array solutions / projected generation etc. 

 

 

[DamonHD]

@Christine Walker If you only heat/boil what you need for your cup of coffee that takes about 30Wh, or about 30 of those to hit 1kWh.  (Note that from an environmental point of view, if you put milk in your coffee that swamps all the other carbon usage.)

 

Just to annoy you all, our gross electricity use (which includes cooking, but not heating or hot water, and pretends that we have no PV) was 1992kWh last year.

 

http://www.earth.org.uk/saving-electricity-2019.html

 

Our overnight load is basically just the fridge/freezer so averaging ~40W.

 

We have the TV and DVD and cable box off overnight (unless specifically recording anything) because even all in standby it uses the equivalent of the boiled water for half a cup of coffee every hour.  (We did also buy a reasonable sized LED TV and I checked the power consumption of everything that we considered before buying - I reckon that we saved 50% of lifetime energy use.)  The cable box is perfectly happy to be completely turned off overnight as long as we put it in standby first.  If we didn't, we'd be creeping up to another pointless half a-fridge-fridge freeze of power overnight and whenever no one is watching.

 

http://www.earth.org.uk/note-on-LIME-energy-saving-plug-REVIEW.html

 

Cutting back on the 'vampire' loads can make a big difference.  None of the manufacturers care about burdening you with an extra cost for the lifetime of their gadget, but you should!

 

Rgds

 

Damon

Edited August 9, 2020 by DamonHD

[Reiver]

1 hour ago, AliG said:

I checked the spec of the kitchen LEDs. They are rated at 7 W but appear to actually use roughly 11W each

That's interesting, I wonder if they have poor power factor which is making them read high? Either way, I guess you could save a bit by replacing them down to 4 or 5W and seeking out high efficiency bulbs, 100 lumens per watt is well achievable these days. 10 days ago I replaced some dodgy GU10 spots in my kitchen with some modern 7W types and they were just too bright, it was like being under interrogation.

27W on the Sky box is interesting too, having had to design a few power supplies for equipment in the last 10 years, one big PITA has always been meeting the EU edict for < 0.5W standby power..... or do the Murdochs have some kind of immunity from legislation I wonder?

Edited August 9, 2020 by Reiver

[daiking]

11 minutes ago, DamonHD said:

@Christine Walker If you only heat/boil what you need for your cup of coffee that takes about 30Wh, or about 30 of those to hit 1kWh.  (Note that from an environmental point of view, if you put milk in your coffee that swamps all the other carbon usage.)

 

Just to annoy you all, our gross electricity use (which includes cooking, but not heating or hot water, and pretends that we have no PV) was 1992kWh last year.

 

http://www.earth.org.uk/saving-electricity-2019.html

 

Our overnight load is basically just the fridge/freezer so averaging ~40W.

 

We have the TV and DVD and cable box off overnight (unless specifically recording anything) because even all in standby it uses the equivalent of the boiled water for half a cup of coffee every hour.  (We did also buy a reasonable sized LED TV and I checked the power consumption of everything that we considered before buying - I reckon that we saved 50% of lifetime energy use.)  The cable box is perfectly happy to be completely turned off overnight as long as we put it in standby first.  If we didn't, we'd be creeping up to another pointless half a-fridge-fridge freeze of power overnight and whenever no one is watching.

 

http://www.earth.org.uk/note-on-LIME-energy-saving-plug-REVIEW.html

 

Cutting back on the 'vampire' loads can make a big difference.  None of the manufacturers care about burdening you with an extra cost for the lifetime of their gadget, but you should!

 

Rgds

 

Damon

How is this achieved? Home automation? Smart plugs? Old fashioned way?

[ProDave]

I have some of the stuff in my "AV / network" cupboard on a simple timer so things like the sky box (and other 2 satellite receivers) and printer are off between midnight and 4PM next day.  Just the hifi system and BB router on all the time in there.

 

The Sky box is a huge consumer of power, when that is on, the cupboard really warms up inside.  Barely any noticable heat from anything else.  Perhaps one day I will seek out a freesat box that consumes very little power but there are a few unique features that still make using an old Sky HD box attractive.

[Ferdinand]

1 hour ago, SuperJohnG said:

Thats a lot of power. 

I recall as a child my dad telling me to turn the lights off behind me...it would do his box in. I never understood what the drama was. Some rooms we had were running 8-10 of those old 80 watt reflector bulbs. I never understood till I got a house and had a bill to pay. 

 

As a general approach to reducing usage I think we as a nation don't realise how wasteful we are and how little changes can help. 

E.g. I use facewash every morning..normally for years three pumps on the thing to get the foam, don't know why it was three but thats what I always done. The penny dropped one day and I used only 1 pump - face clean as normal. But now my face wash lasts three times as long.. hundreds of wee simple changes add up. (Bit of a random story,lol) 

 

What's a "facewash"? Genuine question - never heard of it. I use a sink of water and a bar of soap; is this why am ugly?

 

@AliG

 

So the pool is only 20%. Not dominantly enormous. But Tesla plus pool is nearly half.

 

Can you do anything about that Tesla chunk? Battery system used on divert from the solar or picks up overnight tariff etc that stores up power to charge the T and run the baseload?

 

In the kitchen you have approx 30-35 7W lights for 70 sqm. I have approx 16 4W LED GU10s lights for 26 sqm, so your intensity sounds only 10-20% high by comparison. Movement detectors as a solution?

 

Can you just get more towels, so less need to wash so frequently (looking at the other end). Counting up what I inherited from mum gives me the best part of three dozen towels which could last me till 2030.

 

I think your lockdown / non-lockdown difference might be worth considering - is the usage higher than last year?

 

I'm taking it that you are on your best choice of tariff.

 

Assuming you have no sewerage plant.

 

Interesting little issue I have now is that I seem to have developed tinnitus in the last 9 months (think it's a side effect from a very nasty winter bug last year). I now sometimes have a several second periodic woosh-woosh-woosh in my left ear, which I first thought was a maintenance issue in the heating circulation - like listening to an AM seashell. But I now can't hear things like the warming drawer and  the mcrowave when running, so I keep leaving them on sometimes overnight.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2020 by Ferdinand

[AliG]

The kitchen has 16lights. They are on one circuit of 10 and one of 6. It is just that they use way more than the rated 7w.

 

There is no need to have both circuits on in nearly any circumstance but persuading g the family of this is difficult. I think they are one of the main reasons for unexpectedly high consumption. 
 

I do reckon we are running higher during lockdown. The main reasons being more lights on, more use of the projector and more use of laptops.

 

I think I could maybe get 1000kWh off the bill looking at vampire drain etc but that is about as well as I can do.

 

I did look at batteries but I didn’t think they would cover their high cost yet.

 

I am on a fantastically low tariff for power at the moment.

 

I have 5kw of solar. The roof is much bigger but has roof lights that’s get in the way.

 

Due to our high constant power usage I reckon that we use almost all the solar we generate which is good.

 

[DamonHD]

48 minutes ago, daiking said:

How is this achieved? Home automation? Smart plugs? Old fashioned way?

 

Mainly making sure that things are really off when we are not using them (eg the microwave, which otherwise used 5W for the clock we never set, over time possibly more than the energy we used cooking in it).

 

And very carefully checking the specs for replacement appliances as we bought them.  The range of consumptions for devices doing nominally the same thing is remarkable, and shops have been poor about pointing out anything other than the shiny shiny.  Trip up on that and you are wasting energy for the device's entire life.

 

That one smart plug for the the TV, DVD, Xbox makes a difference I think, which would otherwise push up our overnight use by ~50%.

 

I also cut down power for my servers sufficiently (from ~640W to ~2W) that the whole lot runs off-grid on a separate system.  The first bit (replacing a rack of servers with a Raspberry Pi) is the important part.  The off-grid system is more-or-less showing off having done that.

 

Nothing very clever.

 

Rgds

 

Damon

 

[DamonHD]

12 minutes ago, AliG said:

I do reckon we are running higher during lockdown. The main reasons being more lights on, more use of the projector and more use of laptops.

 

 

With the kids at home on lockdown we went up from about 5kWh/d to about 6kWh/d.  When the younger one was back 2d/w consumption dropped back a bit.

 

In our case it was TV/XBox plus some extra gas for baking (~1kWh/d)...  The baking fad has faded a bit too.

 

Rgds

 

Damon

[AliG]

I am going to start putting it into a spreadsheet.

 

I chose to have a pool and expect it to use a lot of electricity. TBH it costs around £1000 a year in electricity and gas whereas 30 years ago it might have cost 3-4x as much.

 

I think they thing is finding the unexpected uses of power.

 

I found one power bar in the games room that is using around 20W with a TV, Wii, DVD player and Sky Q box plugged into it all on standby. The devices are probably used for 1-2 hours a week, so if this was switched off the rest of the time it would save 175kWh a year.

 

Sky Q boxes only go properly on standby between 2.30am and 5.45am. As they are networked they do not power down when on standby, particularly the main box as it provides a signal to all the other boxes. Indeed if you get up before 5.45am, which I do bizarrely often, and switch on a Sky Q mini it breaks the network and you have to reset the main box.

 

Ideally you would find a way to switch things off totally, say between midnight and 6am. The issue is that so many things are networked that it is difficult to know which you can do without something else not working. For example, I suspect the family would not consider it acceptable to have the wifi not working if they woke up at 1am and wanted to use their phone.