Critique my final design (almost?) ready for Planning Permission...

[puntloos]

Even if this is the one, I'll 'probably be back'

 

Main layout:

- We don't know for sure if the ASHP is in the right spot?

- Note that our main walls are in line with neighbors but hoping this 'gable hall/room' is reasonable.

- Total floor space about 250m2

 

 

And here's the design from the architect. 

- The kitchen and garage will trade some space, adding 1m to kitchen

- Intending to extend the gable (25cm) and then move the entire house into the garden (25cm) so bed4 and hall(staircase) will have some extra space.

- Ceiling lights in particular in the loft need to be added (somewhere)..

 

 

I'll update with a few more points and an updated internal design shortly

- 

Edited April 21, 2020 by puntloos

[wozza]

If it were mine, I would consider putting in an en-suite for bed 3 where the loft hatch space area is.

Move family bath, master en-suite and walk in to the left a bit so master door can be put on same wall as family bath door.

Edited April 21, 2020 by wozza

[ProDave]

I am not convinced the master bed is big enough.  I would ditch the walk in to make the room bigger, you show a built in wardrobe and that would do for me.

 

I would put the door to the garage from the dining room in that otherwise awkward looking alcove in the corner, so save splitting the run of kitchen units to put the door there.

[puntloos]

Here's the updated thinking on internals inside my own program

 

@ProDave - as you can see we shared your feeling around the master, so we flipped things around to "default" to a larger space, that can be closed off into a 'walk-in'

Reasoning here is that my wife and myself have very different schedules around work and kid, so getting dressed is much better in a separate area, and obviously we're tight(ish) for space.

 

@wozza - hmm not a bad idea, I'll consider it.

 

Downstairs:

 

Upstairs:

 

 

 

I found animating the differences very helpful. See the attachments, the forum doesn't allow animated gifs apparently.  Check here:

 

Downstairs: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VHx0uhvZdlPeAzS9fRyImbke-Mo_ujru

Upstairs: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wbFll6l-7pOGSXlw4orxYWlhdLlvIPG_

 

 

This is what Master now looks like: (note one of the closets in walk-in is a mirror)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by puntloos

[AliG]

1. Do you plan to have a cupboard under the stars? Or is that a cupboard across from the WC? We have a load of coats shoes etc in a big hall cupboard.

 

2. If you aren't having a garage and plan to put the car in there I would lose the door and widen the opening which won't need a door frame anymore. It will be easier to get in and out of the car and get past the car.

 

3. The sliding doors that separate the kitchen are pretty close to the island. I would move them over 1-200mm to the right on the picture. TBH I doubt they'd even be closed and it might be better just to lose them altogether, I don't like the pinch point between the island and the entrance to the garden room. If you wanted to separate an area, the lounge would be better where between the office wall and the pillar in the bifolds.

 

4. I guess the door to bedroom 2 is recessed to make the hall more symmetrical, but that looks like way too tight an entrance. You would open the door onto a wall right in front of your face. I would put it back where it was before, you could still have arches between the rooms.

 

5. I am not sure what you are trying to achieve on the master bedroom. I think it would be better to walk into the bedroom where that stair that I assume is a glitch is shown then have the walk in between the bedroom and the en suite. I guess it makes the bedroom feel wider as it is shown. You couldn't walk in there and close it off without disturbing the other person in the room. I don't think the massive sliders are a good idea, so I would either just make it a big room with wardrobes or I would make that a wall with an archway.

 

Alternatively you could put the bed where the ensuite is and split the area where the bed is between the en suite and dressing room. Or you could make bedroom 4 a little narrower and put the walk-in there, making the room longer and narrower which fits a bed better.

 

6. The bathroom door opening out onto the landing is not a great idea and there is room to open into the bathroom.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[puntloos]

Thanks for your response, inline!

 

16 minutes ago, AliG said:

1. Do you plan to have a cupboard under the stars? Or is that a cupboard across from the WC? We have a load of coats shoes etc in a big hall cupboard.

 

Yes I think under the stairs is wasted space otherwise.

 

16 minutes ago, AliG said:

2. If you aren't having a garage and plan to put the car in there I would lose the door and widen the opening which won't need a door frame anymore. It will be easier to get in and out of the car and get past the car.

Not sure I understand. Do you mean remove the garage door? Or make the door from the kitchen an open walkway?

 

The idea is that we won't use it as storage for a car, but we wanted it to be 'theoretically suitable'. We'd probably put a door halfway, so there is still an outside(ish) space for trash bins, bikes perhaps, and have a more heated 'utility' section.

 

16 minutes ago, AliG said:

 

3. The sliding doors that separate the kitchen are pretty close to the island. I would move them over 1-200mm to the right on the picture.

 

Interesting point. We could consider this. It also would work a bit better with the projector.

 

16 minutes ago, AliG said:

TBH I doubt they'd even be closed and it might be better just to lose them altogether, I don't like the pinch point between the island and the entrance to the garden room. If you wanted to separate an area, the lounge would be better where between the office wall and the pillar in the bifolds.

 

The idea for closing is that we want to separate smells and mess from the living room, but I imagine it mostly happening with guests, and not 'day to day'.

 

16 minutes ago, AliG said:

4. I guess the door to bedroom 2 is recessed to make the hall more symmetrical,

 

No, the reason is twofold:

 

1/ to have the walkway 'disappear' as to give an idea of space. If you can't see where it's going your mind imagines much more space then there actually is

2/ To be able to split Bed 2 into two bedrooms.

 

16 minutes ago, AliG said:

 

but that looks like way too tight an entrance.

 

It's 1m.. not that bad? But, we could perhaps open into Bed 2 downwards (we left space..) but then you'd have to walk around a corner to get back in.

 

16 minutes ago, AliG said:

You would open the door onto a wall right in front of your face.

Fair point.. not the end of the world I'd say, but perhaps less elegant than ideal, thanks will consider alternatives.

 

16 minutes ago, AliG said:

I would put it back where it was before, you could still have arches between the rooms.

 

Not sure which arches you refer to.. between bed2-sleep and bed2-play?

 

16 minutes ago, AliG said:

5. I am not sure what you are trying to achieve on the master bedroom. I think it would be better to walk into the bedroom where that stair that I assume is a glitch is shown

Nope, this is intended to be the loft access (of course not always in the 'down' position) - not a glitch..

 

16 minutes ago, AliG said:

then have the walk in between the bedroom and the en suite.

I assume what you mean is the ensuite being down to the front, but that comes with downsides:
- Privacy (either no windows, or it will be hard to prevent people seeing your outline as you move around..)

- Bedroom 4 becomes quite small

 

 

16 minutes ago, AliG said:

I guess it makes the bedroom feel wider as it is shown.

You mean my current design?

 

16 minutes ago, AliG said:

You couldn't walk in there and close it off without disturbing the other person in the room. I don't think the massive sliders are a good idea, so I would either just make it a big room with wardrobes or I would make that a wall with an archway.

 

Your suggested solution, or this one, is all we could come up with so far..

 

 

16 minutes ago, AliG said:

Alternatively you could put the bed where the ensuite is and split the area where the bed is between the en suite and dressing room.

We thought about this, but this is also about noise separation, the kid can be loud, and with age gets louder, so we figured having a 'layer' between our bed and the rest of the house is important.

 

But yes, all compromises..

 

16 minutes ago, AliG said:

Or you could make bedroom 4 a little narrower and put the walk-in there, making the room longer and narrower which fits a bed better.

 

Ha, one design we did consider at some point I think, but "a little"narrower is pretty optimistic, it'd stop being a 'king size' bedroom.

 

16 minutes ago, AliG said:

6. The bathroom door opening out onto the landing is not a great idea and there is room to open into the bathroom.

 

 

Agreed, we should fix it.

 

[bassanclan]

I think the single storey at the front of the house is unnecessary.

Visually it makes the elevation look a bit cluttered.

The cost of the steels etc will be expensive. If the office and garage are too small without then make the bedrooms above larger too.

 

Similarly the porch overhang could be removed in favour of a structural storm porch, allowing bedroom 4 to be larger, such as shown in this picture. It would be more expensive, but also more impressive.

[puntloos]

11 hours ago, bassanclan said:

I think the single storey at the front of the house is unnecessary.

Visually it makes the elevation look a bit cluttered.

The cost of the steels etc will be expensive. If the office and garage are too small without then make the bedrooms above larger too.

 

Similarly the porch overhang could be removed in favour of a structural storm porch, allowing bedroom 4 to be larger, such as shown in this picture. It would be more expensive, but also more impressive.

 

 

Interesting thoughts for sure. The 'thin single storey' idea was done by the architect to make it more visually appealing rather than less (by being more cluttered). While of course your picture is 'just an example' I tend to agree.. but .. perhaps that's just because I'm used to it. You're of course right that a simpler design is typically cheaper. 

 

That storm porch does look quite nice. Will consider it.. thanks!

 

 

[AliG]

Thanks for taking the effort to respond to people.

 

The stepped back front is unusual and will both reduce space and add to the costs as you will need a steel beam on each side to hold up the outside walls, extra small sections of roof, flashings, guttering etc.

 

22 hours ago, puntloos said:

Quote

2. If you aren't having a garage and plan to put the car in there I would lose the door and widen the opening which won't need a door frame anymore. It will be easier to get in and out of the car and get past the car.

Not sure I understand. Do you mean remove the garage door? Or make the door from the kitchen an open walkway?

 

The idea is that we won't use it as storage for a car, but we wanted it to be 'theoretically suitable'. We'd probably put a door halfway, so there is still an outside(ish) space for trash bins, bikes perhaps, and have a more heated 'utility' section.

 

My point here is that as it is a car port, don't spend money on a garage door that serves no purpose, make it a car port. If you do this you can lose the small pieces of wall that frame the garage door which will make it much easier to get in and out of the car. We used to have a house with a very similar arrangement, a covered area shorter than a car, and it rarely got used as it was a pain to squeeze past the car, open the doors etc. If you make the opening as wide as possible this will help.

 

 

22 hours ago, puntloos said:

 

Quote

4. I guess the door to bedroom 2 is recessed to make the hall more symmetrical,

 

No, the reason is twofold:

 

1/ to have the walkway 'disappear' as to give an idea of space. If you can't see where it's going your mind imagines much more space then there actually is

2/ To be able to split Bed 2 into two bedrooms.

 

Quote

 

but that looks like way too tight an entrance.

 

It's 1m.. not that bad? But, we could perhaps open into Bed 2 downwards (we left space..) but then you'd have to walk around a corner to get back in.

 

I see what you have tried to do, but the awkward entrance to the room is worse than the illusion of extra space IMO.

 

My point about how tight it was is the width of the corridor between the play area and sleeping area. It seems to be only 700mm wide, so that wall will be right in your face when you open the door.

 

I thought maybe the dotted lines either side of the door were arches between the rooms. They might just be lintels or something else.

 

It seems like you went through all the same thoughts as me on the master bedroom. I played around with it a lot see attached, but never got anything totally satisfactory. 

 

A small thing, but I think less than 1m for the landing down to bedroom 4 is a bit narrow, I would keep it at the same width as the rest of the landing.

 

 

2-FP44.thumb.jpg.c277276aaa788a0039a340adda510973.pdf

Edited April 22, 2020 by AliG

[puntloos]

On 22/04/2020 at 20:16, AliG said:

Thanks for taking the effort to respond to people.

 

Obviously! You are helping me out!

 

On 22/04/2020 at 20:16, AliG said:

The stepped back front is unusual and will both reduce space and add to the costs as you will need a steel beam on each side to hold up the outside walls, extra small sections of roof, flashings, guttering etc.

 

 

So we're paying for aesthetics with, well, money and less space. 

Always a tough call I suppose. I do like the look more.. but perhaps it is a compromise we could consider if budget is cramped. We did look at the 'flat' design too but we tried to stay away from "box" design

 

 

On 22/04/2020 at 20:16, AliG said:

My point here is that as it is a car port, don't spend money on a garage door that serves no purpose, make it a car port. If you do this you can lose the small pieces of wall that frame the garage door which will make it much easier to get in and out of the car. We used to have a house with a very similar arrangement, a covered area shorter than a car, and it rarely got used as it was a pain to squeeze past the car, open the doors etc. If you make the opening as wide as possible this will help.

I'd love to see a picture or two of your situation.

 

But yes, my idea in the back of my mind is to split the garage in half - one section indeed a 'car port' (that would not fit an entire car but maybe the front seats could exit without getting wet) and the other section a small utility room

 

Main idea being that if someone really wants an actual garage they can do it, rather than having to settle for a fake garage.

 

On 22/04/2020 at 20:16, AliG said:

I see what you have tried to do, but the awkward entrance to the room is worse than the illusion of extra space IMO.

My point about how tight it was is the width of the corridor between the play area and sleeping area. It seems to be only 700mm wide, so that wall will be right in your face when you open the door.

 

I'll take a closer look, I do agree that walking 'into' a wall is not ideal, but we figured we'd have to put the ensuite 'somewhere'. 

The illusion is valuable I think.. but indeed how much.. surely we can make it work 'somehow'

 

On 22/04/2020 at 20:16, AliG said:

I thought maybe the dotted lines either side of the door were arches between the rooms. They might just be lintels or something else.

 

Just me being a terrible user of the program, but indeed they are arches currently.. or 'doorways'

 

On 22/04/2020 at 20:16, AliG said:

It seems like you went through all the same thoughts as me on the master bedroom. I played around with it a lot see attached, but never got anything totally satisfactory. 

 

So.. what did you settle on? ?

 

On 22/04/2020 at 20:16, AliG said:

A small thing, but I think less than 1m for the landing down to bedroom 4 is a bit narrow, I would keep it at the same width as the rest of the landing.

I think the rationale is mostly around not having an overhang but Id have to look back..

 

On 22/04/2020 at 20:16, AliG said:

 

2-FP44.thumb.jpg.c277276aaa788a0039a340adda510973.pdf 563.94 kB · 7 downloads

 

[AliG]

I managed to find a picture, it is the street my parents used to live in.

 

All the houses had this area like a carport in front of the front door. We only really put a car in there if it was going to snow or be frosty.

 

If you could do away with the little pieces of wall that narrow the opening it would make it a lot better to use. As the car sticks through the opening it is very hard to get past it at these points.

 

If you put a car into the area that you have designed, the back edge of the doors will be very close to the door frame, depending on the car it could even stop them opening or make it difficult to get out.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by AliG

[puntloos]

On 24/04/2020 at 21:04, AliG said:

I managed to find a picture, it is the street my parents used to live in.

 

All the houses had this area like a carport in front of the front door. We only really put a car in there if it was going to snow or be frosty.

 

If you could do away with the little pieces of wall that narrow the opening it would make it a lot better to use. As the car sticks through the opening it is very hard to get past it at these points.

 

If you put a car into the area that you have designed, the back edge of the doors will be very close to the door frame, depending on the car it could even stop them opening or make it difficult to get out.

 

 

 

*nod* I think I see the idea.. and indeed we're more thinking of a carport than a proper garage. I'm surprised cars even fit into those small tunnels!

 

But yes, at least part of the place could be 'open' - but some part is probably going to be used at least for bins, washing, bikes strollers etc.

[Ferdinand]

2 hours ago, puntloos said:

*nod* I think I see the idea.. and indeed we're more thinking of a carport than a proper garage. I'm surprised cars even fit into those small tunnels!

 

The opening is 2.4-2.5m, but I think they are 3-3.25m inside - which is more than it looks.

 

(Based on 3" width of the lintel bricks).

Edited May 7, 2020 by Ferdinand

[ProDave]

5 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

 

The opening is 2.4-2.5m, but I think they are 3-3.25m inside - which is more than it looks.

 

(Based on 3" width of the lintel bricks).

If I had a house like that, I would be fitting a new front door (pair?) right at the front. Making it a much more useful enclosed secure dry space for bikes, boots, coats etc.

[AliG]

I just had a look on Streetview, no one has done that.

 

The inside width of the house is just shy of 6m and I think the porch area is maybe around 2.8m.

 

I always thought that they should have made it a double garage with just a narrow entrance to one side.

[Ferdinand]

16 hours ago, AliG said:

I just had a look on Streetview, no one has done that.

 

The inside width of the house is just shy of 6m and I think the porch area is maybe around 2.8m.

 

I always thought that they should have made it a double garage with just a narrow entrance to one side.

 

Presumably cost and structural requirements would undermine that.

 

Also perhaps visual appeal and a more varied frontage were required. 

[puntloos]

Almost there.. a few updates after speaking with a Passivhaus builder. As per the tinkering with design post-permission discussion, I figured I want the design (and in particular the window positions) as close to current as we can get to. 

 

The changes:

- Ext wall thickness 500mm - perhaps not  required really - @ProDave's example was 360mm but to be sure it'll work and we have some give.

- 3m worth of garage wall allocated for ASHP/MVHR type equipment

- Rethink of both main rooms (Kid and Master). 

• Given up on master ensuite next to family. Moved Ensuite into BR2
• Moved Kid Ensuite next to Family Bath, making Kid flow much nicer.
• Changed pull-down loft stair (below walkin) into spiral stair straight up from main stair (TBC, discussions still ongoing but for now I'll assume..)

I'm still debating if I should pick generic window sizes (so I can still move them a little) or make them fit the current design exactly - for example the walkin window - should I make it exactly fit the walkway or keep them a bit smaller so if I move the windows around, it still could fit whatever new room layout I'd go for..

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dpmiller]

what's the point of the pocket door between Bed4 and the spiral stair? Surely the handrail will preclude acces to the stair...

[ProDave]

I would not use a round spiral staircase in a square "room"  the old round peg in a square hole situation creating awkward corners you will never get to for cleaning etc.  Make a square "spiral" staircase out of timber in the same way a timber stair can wind round a corner, it will just keep on winding like a spiral stair, but with all the treads going out to the corners.

 

Then the space under it could be a cupboard accessed from bed 4.

[DevilDamo]

What are your floor to ceiling heights?

Why is the roof to the single storey rear element so high up? Is it to do with ceiling heights hence my comment above?

 

There may be a slight access/design issue with the door between the Landing and Bedroom 3 assuming the front projected part is still to have the lower eaves?

 

The line of the wall between the Landing and Bedroom 3 doesn’t appear to be shown correctly. The Landing side of that wall lines through with the internal face of the front wall to  Bedroom 2 but does not line through with the internal face of the front wall to Bedroom 5.

 

If you’re going to use the loft as storage, then you can do what you like to access it. The roof could also be designed with a slightly simpler structure. If however you’re going to use the loft for anything else that resembles a habitable area, it will need to meet BR’s in terms of structure, fire and thermal. If you are going to use the loft as habitable, you’d normally look at having four Bedroom’s on the first floor and a fifth/Games room on the top floor.

 

Who has designed this house because in another post, you mentioned your wife is the architect or were you referring to that as her making the decisions and having the final say?

[bassanclan]

I'm not 100% clear where your dining table is, if in the garden room access is a little awkward for people coming from the open plan living area.

Would the kitchen ar the far right work better, with more natural light and better outlook?

[tonyshouse]

What are the Target U values for walls, floor, ceilings, fenestration, target air tightness, have you done a thermal model looking at overheating in summer and/or informing smaller windows, shading of windows and reducing dangerous for overheating West facing glazing.

 

integral garage is what I call an in-house winter cooling system so would try to design that out 

 

how big does an office need to be ?

[AliG]

A few things.

 

1. Mentioned before, but it is even worse now with the thicker walls. That corner between the island and the pocket door to the living area is both narrow and awkward. It would be even worse with a chair at the island. The space around the island is just too small. When you open the door to a dishwasher, it sticks out almost 80cm, you won't be able to pass between it and the island, you won't be able to pass between an open cupboard door and the bottom of the island. If the plan is to put the dining table in the garden room, then the space between the hall and patio doors seems wasted and I would move the packet doors back in line with the other side of the stairs to give you almost an extra metre in the kitchen.

 

2. You will not be able to use the projector there. I have a 5 m long room painted dark brown, including the ceiling, with a little slot window and the projector is OK in the daylight on a 2.9m wide image. In my old house with a slightly smaller screen, white ceilings and larger windows it was impossible to watch the projector in the daylight. And this was much closer to the screen. The combination of light coloured room, patio doors and projector will not work.

 

3. Spaces of 600mm and 500mm either side of a bed are too narrow. By the time the duvet hangs over the sides you can knock another 100mm off that.

 

4. Now that you have made the master bedroom larger, I would move the door to being a normal swing door next to bedroom 2 and close in the wardrobe more. Sliding doors are a pain to use relative to normal doors. It is not quite clear though as the render appears to have wardrobes there. You have a lot of room in the walk in, I would try to keep all the wardrobes in there.

 

5. The floorpan shows windows on 3 sides of bedroom 3. With the already limited space, a window or door on every wall will make placing furniture difficult.

 

6. I would make the sink area smaller in the master ensuite so it does not impinge on the entrance area in front of the shower.

Edited May 25, 2020 by AliG

[Ferdinand]

@AliG

 

>By the time the cute hands over the sides you Cannock another 100mm off that.

 

Quality . Mr iPad had an iPad?

Edited May 25, 2020 by Ferdinand

[AliG]

Yes, I just noticed that, the wonders of autocorrect