Leaking stop tap: why does it always happen to me?

[ToughButterCup]

Why @Russell griffiths, why does it always happen to me? Tell me, why?

 

This is the approved United Utilities design for a new connection.

 

 

Before we had the work done, an inspector came out to see if I had done the work as per the diagram. We had indeed.

The keen-eyed among you will see that there is no external stop-tap. Can you see where this is going yet?

 

The internal Plasson stop tap (fitted by me) is dripping from the stalk: not much - about an egg-cup full every night

I had a mate come round and confirm my suspicion - I thought I was going a bit mad - the valve is indeed leaking from the stalk.

The lovely, expensive Plasson valve has a leaky stalk.

 

Easy, mate  he said, Turn the outside stop tap off and we'll replace it  he said. 

Aint got one  I said. 

Cue earthy Lancastrian disbelief. Here it is - ever so faint, but here the leak is......

 

'Nother fine mess I got myself into eh? Wot's next then folks?

 

 

[redtop]

we used jet blue on our 32mm MDPE pipe connections, not meant to need it but I used it and no leaks and its a direct 32mm mains connection so very high pressure.  guess it depends where exactly its leaking from?

[ProDave]

Are you SURE you don't have an outside underground stop tap, what we know up here as a Toby?  Were you not seeking a key for one the other day or did I imagine that?

[Mr Punter]

Where we are they fit water meters externally at the property boundary, so it is easy to isolate there with the stop valve next to the meter.

[Temp]

If there isn't another stopcock then might have to resort to a pipe freezing kit. Screwfix sell sprays but you have to work fast or you can hire a powered box of tricks..

 

https://www.screwfix.com/c/tools/pipe-freezing/cat9530001?cm_sp=managedredirect-_-handtools-_-pipefreezing

 

https://www.hss.com/hire/p/pipe-freezer-12-42mm-240v

[ToughButterCup]

36 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Are you SURE you don't have [...]

 

Yes. 100 %. I dug the ditch, laid the pipe, stopped the end, and that was inspected by the inspector. All OK.

39 minutes ago, redtop said:

[...] guess it depends where exactly its leaking from?

 

Its leaking from the stalk: you have to dig your fingers in behind the blue Plasson valve handle (its hollow) and smear your finger along the stalk to get your finger wet.

[ProDave]

I am now confused. What is this for then?

 

Is that not your outside underground meter and stop tap?

 

If no outside stop tap, how did they connect your tail?  Did they fit a stop tap where they made the connection? Go on humour me and have a look.

[Mr Punter]

If you plan to change it and there is no stopcock outside you may be better using a squeeze off tool as in my limited experience freezing the pipe is normally hopeless.  The good news is that at least you can run a tap to see if the squeeze off has worked, rather than having the loose plug of ice exploding from the end of the pipe.

[ToughButterCup]

Just now, ProDave said:

I am now confused. What is this for then?

 

Is that not your outside underground meter and stop tap?

 

If no outside stop tap, how did they connect your tail?  Did they fit a stop tap where they made the connection? Go on humour me and have a look.

 

Hi Dave,

No, that image is the valve inside thebuilt in wall meter box. Thats the second of two stop valves. The blue one ( above) is inside our piggery. I stood and watched as they connected my 'tail'.

 

There is no external stop valve. Big, fat, smelly promise.

3 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

[...] you may be better using a squeeze off tool [...]

 

?  

Why me? Why?

[ProDave]

Then I would go with the squeeze tool. BUT first buy one of these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/atplas-boudary-water-meter-box-25mm-telesscopic-more-than-ono-07712477650/153732276868?hash=item23cb286284:g:gK0AAOSwq~BdzDYx

 

Then dig a hole big enough to squeeze the pipe, cut it, and insert the boundary box before unsqueezing it.  Then you will have the outside stop tap you crave.  That's a 25mm MDPE push fit connector each side. Don't forget the inserts.

 

I actually have three of these, one feeds my outside standpipe, one feeds the static caravan and one feeds the house.  Upstream of those at the plot boundary I have the very similar (different make) one supplied by Scottish Water.  So I have two places outside I can shut off the water. 

 

To anyone reading this, if you also have a water company insane enough not to supply one of these as standard, then go and buy one and fit it before you get connected.

[Russell griffiths]

What ya asking me for. 

I know nuffin. 

[ToughButterCup]

12 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

What ya asking me for. 

I know nuffin. 

 

It's your attitude I admire...

[ToughButterCup]

42 minutes ago, ProDave said:

[...]

To anyone reading this, if you also have a water company insane enough not to supply one of these as standard, then go and buy one and fit it before you get connected.

 

And what if , God forbid, the inspector refuses to carry out the work because I failed to follow the instructions given?

 

The desigh is  at fault.

[ProDave]

16 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said:

 

And what if , God forbid, the inspector refuses to carry out the work because I failed to follow the instructions given?

 

The desigh is  at fault.

But you are connected, why will they be coming back?

 

You could always contact them, and say you installed it exactly to their design. Now your stop tap is leaking so can they please come and shut off your water while you replace it.

 

Please post their reply.

[Triassic]

How did they connect the tail to their main ? Some connections  have an inbuilt shut off valve. Photo might help.

 

If you don't mind getting a bit wet you can replace the  leaking valve with the water still on! 

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Triassic

[PeterW]

If that’s in the piggery then it means the house is on a different feed ..? So .... the piggery isn’t metered..?????!!!

[ToughButterCup]

57 minutes ago, ProDave said:

But you are connected, why will they be coming ...

If I HAD inserted a stop valve, then the inspector could have refused the work because I would not have followed the diagram. 

51 minutes ago, PeterW said:

If that’s in the piggery then it means the house is on a different feed .

 

Same feed, the piggery is closer to the road.

 

56 minutes ago, Triassic said:

How did they connect the tail to their main ? Some connections  have an inbuilt shut off valve. Photo might help...

They used a Talbot Compression Tool. It forces a threaded connector into the main like this 

 

 

... once made, this assembly is screwed on top of the main.

 

And that was that, nothing else done - back fill , tea, medals. 

[Triassic]

With some types of insertions there is a simple screw down valve under the red cap. Might be worth checking, if the connection is still accessible.

[Conor]

13 hours ago, AnonymousBosch said:

If I HAD inserted a stop valve, then the inspector could have refused the work because I would not have followed the diagram. 

 

Same feed, the piggery is closer to the road.

 

They used a Talbot Compression Tool. It forces a threaded connector into the main like this 

 

 

... once made, this assembly is screwed on top of the main.

 

And that was that, nothing else done - back fill , tea, medals. 

Holy crap. That's terrible design. They should have stuck a boundary box on to the initial connection tail. And the piggery comes of this same connection?

 

Where does the ownership change from UU to you? Usually, it's at the aforementioned boundary box... Who's responsible for a leak on that connection?

[ProDave]

Like I said before, I would throw it back to the utility. Say you installed the new connection EXACTLY to their drawing and ask them to explain how you shut off the water to replace your leaky stop tap.

 

You cannot be the first to make that call to them.

[Big Jimbo]

I bet that connection to the mains is reduced internally. I can't believe (although i can see) no company stop tap.

[joe90]

I can recommend the squeeze tool, I had a water problem with no stop tap visible (turned out to be buried under the lawn!) and it worked great . As per @ProDave, throw it back to the utilities Co, let us know what they say. Bonkers to not have a stop tap at the boundary!!!.

[RandAbuild]

Ian - it looks like you've got one of these connectors on the mains supply pipe, see page 27:

 

http://www.mains2meters.ie/docs/Talbot_Product_Guide_May08.pdf

 

What it doesn't say is what happens if you pull off the red tab - is there a valve inside? A quick call to the Talbot people might tell you

[Jeremy Harris]

There's a shut off valve under the red cap.  You need a key to shut it off by the look of things:

 

[Conor]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Harris said:

There's a shut off valve under the red cap.  You need a key to shut it off by the look of things:

 

Usually a 10mm hex key. They are not designed for frequent operation... I wouldn't go near it, because if it goes wrong, you're in a world of hurt.

 

If it were me, I'd dig down near the connection, and install a Toby box. Squeeze the pipe off, cut and connect.