H F Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 I know that most of you on this forum that have solar PV are very clued up on what should comprise a solar system in terms of kit and capacity. Never having had solar before, and not knowing too much about the tech, when I’ve gone through my paperwork, solar installation quotes seem to lack transparency and specificity. Not a single quote I received stated the size of the inverter they’d install or the number of optimizers - just the brand is mentioned. They’re all vague, and they harp on about savings... Is this lack of detail common practice amongst solar PV installers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Common practice for the industry sad to say. Been a few years since I worked in it, but the sales tactics was typical for a double glazing company, which a lot of PV companies where. They relied a lot on people's ignorance, which seems strange to me when they were, at the time, paying £12-£16k for a 4 kWp system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H F Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 I’m having a disagreement with my installer. If you look at the attached image, which is a snippet of the final invoice (I’ve scratched out the amount), would you agree that I have been charged for a Victron inverter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visti Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Yup, can concur. Even when challenged on the price per panel there was always a good reason the cost barely wavered, even if the # panels wen't up and down by 20% or specs changed. Never could get it split by line item! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visti Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 States it clear as day. How are they disputing that?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H F Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Visti said: States it clear as day. How are they disputing that?! They are denying it tooth and nail. Needless to say I never opted for the battery solution and it was never installed. Edited October 24, 2019 by Home Farm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H F Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, Visti said: Yup, can concur. Even when challenged on the price per panel there was always a good reason the cost barely wavered, even if the # panels wen't up and down by 20% or specs changed. Never could get it split by line item! Yeah, it’s astonishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 I probably still have my quote on the email. PM your addy and I can send it through for a comparison. Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 A quote is not an invoice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 9 hours ago, Home Farm said: [...] If you look at the attached image, which is a snippet of the final invoice [...] The image might have come from a quotation? Might that explain the hiccup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H F Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 This is the approved quotation for our job. The “invoice” was a two line email saying we owe them £xxx. My sole point of reference for job deliverables is the approved quotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 The quote I'm currently working on isn't much more detailed, but at least does have the total power capacity and installed dimensions of the array listed on it. The inverter and optimisers are not specified though, I only know exact details about the inverter as I specifically asked about the model on an email chain (debating 3 phase vs dual inverters). I assumed I'd get an itemized invoice before having to pay, but this has highlighted I really must do so. It is curious what the charger was ever intended for. Did you ask them for battery storage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H F Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, joth said: It is curious what the charger was ever intended for. Did you ask them for battery storage? We received six quotes in the end for a variety of solutions. Two were battery options which we disregarded because they weren’t cost effective and we installed an air source heat pump. When we dumped the batteries, we increased the size of the array and that was the final quote we received - this was the amount we approved. They clearly updated the quote, nulled the batteries (where it says “none”) and forgot to remove the Victron. It is only now that we understand what we received that I identified the Victron and that we never received it and this component has clearly been charged for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H F Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 I’ve requested an itemized invoice, which they’re refusing to provide. And a two line email requesting the remaining amount is simply not acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, Home Farm said: This is the approved quotation for our job. [ ...image deleted ...] [ ... ] and 10 hours ago, Home Farm said: [...] If you look at the attached image, which is a snippet of the final invoice [...] The image can't be from both the quotation and the invoice: indeed 15 minutes ago, Home Farm said: [...] The “invoice” was a two line email saying we owe them £xxx. [...] Can I suggest you ask for an invoice itemised as per the quotation? I faced an exactly similar challenge - repeated refusals to itemise the final invoice as per the quotation - matched by repeated refusals from us to pay until the final invoice was broken into the (formally agreed ) level of detail. 2 years later we are still waiting for a detailed invoice. On asking in person for the detailed invoice, the company owner actually said: "I don't see why I should" You couldn't make it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, Home Farm said: I’ve requested an itemized invoice What have you actually got there that you know of. So what make and model of inverter, number of modules, total capacity of modules. Can then try and work backwards to see if you got ripped off, which is, I think, what you really want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said: refusals from us to pay until the final invoice was broken into the (formally agreed ) level of detail. They obviously don’t need the money!!!! Makes you wonder what they are trying to hide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 48 minutes ago, Home Farm said: This is the approved quotation for our job. The “invoice” was a two line email saying we owe them £xxx. My sole point of reference for job deliverables is the approved quotation. Then I would have rejected the invoice and asked for one done properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H F Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 I will be rejecting the invoice today, for the third time, requesting a formal invoice, on letterhead with breakdown. Does anyone recommend contacting the ombudsman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 11 hours ago, SteamyTea said: Common practice for the industry sad to say. Been a few years since I worked in it, but the sales tactics was typical for a double glazing company, which a lot of PV companies where. They relied a lot on people's ignorance, which seems strange to me when they were, at the time, paying £12-£16k for a 4 kWp system. We where quoted exactly those figures Sap predicted a saving of around £250 -300 per year Unless bought very cheap and self installed The figures don’t stack up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, Home Farm said: [...] Does anyone recommend contacting the ombudsman? You are a long way from that yet. You have to have explored all other avenues first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 No acceptable invoice = no payment. This is how the world of business works. Once you've paid, you have zero leverage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H F Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, Bitpipe said: No acceptable invoice = no payment. This is how the world of business works. Once you've paid, you have zero leverage. Fully agree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishjohn Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) Is this amount above and beyond the quotation /sales contract you signed and returned to them ? if so your good If the price is what you signed for --you just got to suck it up- sounds like a simple contract law problem you should have copy of what you signed and what the job entailed Edited October 25, 2019 by scottishjohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H F Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 1 hour ago, SteamyTea said: What have you actually got there that you know of. So what make and model of inverter, number of modules, total capacity of modules. Can then try and work backwards to see if you got ripped off, which is, I think, what you really want to know. Essentially, all I want to know is whether we are being charged for the Victron inverter - they are swearing blind that we aren't but they are reusing to show any proof. We received 22 optimisers, 22 panels (280W) - total array = 6.16kW. We then got a 6 kW inverter - they originally fitted a 5kW. Then we needed scaffolding and the outsourced/contracted company took two days to install the panels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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