Isolators: easy to reach ? Where have you put yours?

[ToughButterCup]

Quote

Sockets should also be easily accessible. If appliances such as fridges, dishwashers and washing machines are fitted under worktops, getting to sockets may be difficult. Ideally, these appliances should be controlled by a switched fuse connection unit mounted above the worktop where you can reach it easily.

(NICEIC Guide to electrical work in the kitchen)

 

Arthritis is a useful spur to taking the issue of (in)accessibility seriously.   In our current house, every electrical item was installed by a sparky who frankly could not have given a flying foxtrot about anything other than his miserable, introverted, shrivel-hearted, spiteful self.

 

Its now quite gratuitously painful to isolate (for example) our oven.

To do that , I have to ;

• kneel down (Challenge No.1 - mitigated by knee pads and kneeling with the aid of a chair)
• open a cupboard under the oven (Challenge No. 2 - easy)
• bend down and squint into the depths (Challenge No. 3 - painful but acceptable)
• reach to the back of the cupboard (Challenge No.4 - painful and long-winded - I have to grope for the switch  because  the isolator has no neon).

 

If Great Crested Newt Towers (Salamander Cottage) is about anything, its about getting systems to serve the inhabitants. Not the other way round. This isn't just a Materials First House: it's a People First ( well after America First of course) house.

 

I have to hope that the area immediately above our kitchen worktop (the splashback)  is not merely a line of 13 Amp sockets (8) , isolators (3 or 4), task light switches  (3) .

 

I want to keep the area above our worktop clear, simple.

But as usual, the practice of simplicity is the opposite.

 

Has anyone managed to design the space above the kitchen worktop that addresses both the issue of accesibility and simplicity?

 

This image is stolen fair and square from Scolmore's promotional material - illustrating perfectly the way that manufacturers  simply ignore accessibility: what can you isolate easily in this kitchen? Nowt.

[ProDave]

I am clearly not "on your page" but the brother of your previous sparky.

 

My Oven isolator is in the cupboard above the oven.  Frankly if you need to turn the oven off, it is easier to go to the consumer unit and flick the rcbo labelled "Oven"  It is there because the regs say it must be there, but I don't want clutter.

 

Likewise the hob isolator (on the island) is in a cupboard underneath the hob.

 

I only have 1 isolator above the worktop, and that is for the dishwasher, immediately below it.

 

In the utility there is an isolator for the washing machine and tumble dryer.

 

The Fridge is a big free standing one. It plugs into a socket behind it. Because it is free standing not built in, it does not need a separate isolator.

[ToughButterCup]

2 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I am clearly not "on your page" but the brother of your previous sparky.

[...]

 

Luckily, we have met.

You are the opposite of the guy that installed a good deal of stuff in our house - you can manage a smile for one thing. You talk, you listen, you have a sense of humour and most of all you are (and always have been) generous.

Dave, it really hurts, like really ...,  now to do simple things like isolate the hob: so the just the word ' underneath ' now makes my spine tingle in anticipation.

 

Is there a way of corraling all the necessary isolators in one easy-to-reach space? Maybe simply pop them in part of a small cupboard?

 

[PeterW]

Grid switch in a larder cupboard with 20A marked Schneider switches, all run to either the dedicated socket they manage or a spur for stuff such as ovens. Each oven has its own RCBO circuit also. 

[jack]

Is there an adjacent room you can bung them all in? Ours are all together out of sight on the pantry wall.

[Onoff]

Just now, AnonymousBosch said:

 

Luckily, we have met.

You are the opposite of the guy that installed a good deal of stuff in our house - you can manage a smile for one thing. You talk, you listen, you have a sense of humour and most of all you are (and always have been) generous.

Dave, it really hurts, like really ...,  now to do simple things like isolate the hob: so the just the word ' underneath ' now makes my spine tingle in anticipation.

 

Is there a way of corraling all the necessary isolators in one easy-to-reach space? Maybe simply pop them in part of a small cupboard?

 

 

Grid switches on a plate. 

[dpmiller]

Just remember that every isolator and connection is a prospective fault where high current consumers are concerned. I'd prefer to be able to see an isolator rather than waiting for the smoke coming out of the cupboard...

[ToughButterCup]

14 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Grid switches on a plate. 

 

Ahhhh!

15 minutes ago, jack said:

Is there an adjacent room you can bung them all in? 

 

Yes.

15 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Grid switch in a larder cupboard with 20A marked Schneider switches, all run to either the dedicated socket they manage or a spur for stuff such as ovens.[...]

 

I suppose 20Amp Scolmore Click Modes will do? Like this, but on a 4 Gang (Dishwasher, Oven, Hob, Extractor) yoke and plate

 

[PeterW]

@AnonymousBosch I’ll take a photo but it’s made up of these 

 

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Manufacturers/Schneider_Ultimate/Ulimate_Grid_White/index.html

 

 

The Scolmore ones are the same - from memory it’s :

 

Oven

Oven

Fridge Freezer

Microwave

Dishwasher

Fan (boosts the MVHR)

 

Sparky hated me as it was in the back of a larder unit so he had 12 cables to fight with .... all in a confined space ..!! Looks good now it’s done though ..!

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

13 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

Just remember that every isolator and connection is a prospective fault where high current consumers are concerned. I'd prefer to be able to see an isolator rather than waiting for the smoke coming out of the cupboard...

 

 

Me too.  I'm afraid I fitted a standard MK cooker switch on the wall to isolate ours.  Given there are several other double gang outlets on the same wall, having a cooker switch on there doesn't look out of place.

[ToughButterCup]

33 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

[...] I'd prefer to be able to see an isolator rather than waiting for the smoke coming out of the cupboard...

 

Point taken.

I think I'll group all of the isolators in a conveniently conspicuous part of the larder - out of sight from the kitchen, but easily accessible to the average adult arm's reach: say at about eye-level, just by the back door.

 

I'll need to think about how to reduce the likelihood of accidental switching ....

 

Thanks everyone, you've all helped me untie a knotty, physically painful problem.

[ProDave]

Re putting it all on a grid plate.  I cringe when I see that.  With so many large cables crammed into a small back box, and often in a hard to reach place, there is so much scope for things to be less than perfect inside there.  It would not be my first choice.

 

 

[PeterW]

10 minutes ago, ProDave said:

small back box

 

..?? 

 

Grid box we used was 75mm deep and a 150x150 frame ..?

[ProDave]

10 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

..?? 

 

Grid box we used was 75mm deep and a 150x150 frame ..?

That would be a challenge in my 25mm service void.

[PeterW]

I think that’s the point though. We mounted it in the larder unit which had a 65mm service void behind, and then the 18mm carcass. That meant the back box was nice and deep to ensure that there was plenty of wiring space. In a standard 25mm service void it wouldn’t be as practical. 

[Carrerahill]

2 hours ago, AnonymousBosch said:

 

Arthritis is a useful spur to taking the issue of (in)accessibility seriously.   In our current house, every electrical item was installed by a sparky who frankly could not have given a flying foxtrot about anything other than his miserable, introverted, shrivel-hearted, spiteful self.

 

Its now quite gratuitously painful to isolate (for example) our oven.

To do that , I have to ;

• kneel down (Challenge No.1 - mitigated by knee pads and kneeling with the aid of a chair)
• open a cupboard under the oven (Challenge No. 2 - easy)
• bend down and squint into the depths (Challenge No. 3 - painful but acceptable)
• reach to the back of the cupboard (Challenge No.4 - painful and long-winded - I have to grope for the switch  because  the isolator has no neon).

 

If Great Crested Newt Towers (Salamander Cottage) is about anything, its about getting systems to serve the inhabitants. Not the other way round. This isn't just a Materials First House: it's a People First ( well after America First of course) house.

 

I have to hope that the area immediately above our kitchen worktop (the splashback)  is not merely a line of 13 Amp sockets (8) , isolators (3 or 4), task light switches  (3) .

 

I want to keep the area above our worktop clear, simple.

But as usual, the practice of simplicity is the opposite.

 

Has anyone managed to design the space above the kitchen worktop that addresses both the issue of accesibility and simplicity?

 

This image is stolen fair and square from Scolmore's promotional material - illustrating perfectly the way that manufacturers  simply ignore accessibility: what can you isolate easily in this kitchen? Nowt.

I ran in all the feeds for all my appliances in my extension last month - home runs to each appliance, via a 1G cable outlet or un-switched socket, all fed from a single location(s) on the wall above the worktop - I will use MK grid system and hopefully be able to get the marked ones for each type of appliance.

 

The MK grid will just be part of the ring main. Separate feeds for higher power appliances such as ovens.

 

So on my grid system I will have, washer, DW, hob igniter - on opposite side another with fridges and freezers built in micro etc. 

 

In my old kitchen you first need to empty the pots and pans cupboard then lean in to kill the DW, oven and hob a little easier but it would still mean a fight with a tower of pots and pyrex.

 

 

[AliG]

I hate the idea of putting switches in my lovely clean glass splashback so I had the switches put in the carcus of the cabinets at each end of the row (the sides of the ovens above). This also makes the switches a lot less obvious when looking at the kitchen and makes the splashback easier to install. In general, unless they had to be in a specific place, I tried to install switches in rooms where they could not be seen, e.g. on the far side of a chimney breast seen when you enter the room.

 

Our isolators are all in the back of a larder cupboard in the main kitchen, but in other places they are too high up to reach without a step/stool. The big multigrid switches or even worse heavy duty hob/oven switches that we used to have are something I would rather not have on display.  As mentioned using the main board is probably easier to use anyway, the ovens etc are clearly marked, but this is a good point for my parents' house if/when we get permission.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by AliG

[SteamyTea]

If you put isolators in a cupboard, how will anyone find them when they are needed?

Will be like plumbers putting in NRV and the likes, then boxing the lot in.

Edited October 8, 2019 by SteamyTea

[joe90]

I was once called out to a faulty cooker hood, customer wanted to replace it but we could not find an isolator, if we could not find it then I would have to fit one which meant hacking plaster off etc, customer had a fit then emptied every cupboard, isolator found further down the kitchen in the back of a cupboard rarely used .

[ToughButterCup]

6 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

If you put isolators in a cupboard, how will anyone find them when they are needed?[...]

 

Yes. Like this ....

7 hours ago, AliG said:

[...]

so I had the switches put in the cacass of the cabinets at each end of the row (the sides of the ovens above).

[...]

 

Tops! @AliG !

SWMBO wants ......... (No more photographs OK?)?

[Barney12]

Just like @AliG there was no way I was having switch acne in my shiny new kitchen. Rather than hiding them at the back of a cupboard I created a panel inside a tall cupboard (at the top). This does compromise a bit of shelf space but makes them very accessible for when there is the need for isolation after someone’s got their head stuck in the dishwasher ?.

 

[Barney12]

Top left of this pic (just for SWMBO) ?

 

[ToughButterCup]

@Barney12 , you do know I can delete anyone's posts don't you...... ?

[Barney12]

21 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said:

@Barney12 , you do know I can delete anyone's posts don't you...... ?

 

Yes and for every one you delete I'll post 2 more. 

I should be getting the contact sheet back from the photographer later in the week who did a shoot of the house for a magazine. Let me have your wife's contact details and I'll send direct! ?

[Onoff]

I've just got 20A switches above the worktop...on show. Unswitched 1 gang sockets below.

 

I'm feeling very isolated on this.