Critique my detailed brief?

[puntloos]

Well, as discussed:

 

- We are a small family living in Herts. 

- We've created a *detailed* requirements document in the form of a spreadsheet.

 

The spreadsheet is here

 

Would love to hear:

- What do you think in general

- What are we missing to give the Architect all the info they need

- What are great ideas or terrible ideas

- Any items that you think will greatly increase the cost?

 

Comments should be possible in Google drive, just rightclick->comment or use the keyboard shortcut. 

Make sure you're signed in to google if you want us to respond to the comment, or post it here on buildhub as well.

[ToughButterCup]

I find your brief difficult to read: it's hard to get a feel the 'whole' brief. The level of detail is a little daunting. 

 

A key part of understanding a text comes from the way the ideas (not merely the sentences) link with one another. Understanding is also helped by readablity.

In terms of readability, the spreadsheet format - while useful for things like matching performance against criteria - doesn't help the general reader.

 

Maybe a simple narrative text would help people like me? 

[ProDave]

I agree with the above.  Give that list to an architect and he is just going to see the £££ signs for implementing all that detail.

 

Assuming you have a plot already, I would start sketching house layouts yourself to try and get all the rooms and storage spaces you need with the separation you want, and then give that initial idea to the architect.

[Redoctober]

Yes I can see that an overarching text / summary would be useful, but I have to say, I think that this is a well thought through list of requirements. I'm sure the architect will be more than happy with this type of approach and it will no doubt assist when it comes to discussing particular matters. Well done I say.

[Ferdinand]

Someone has been collecting all our bees and now you have a bonnetful !

 

I agree that it is an excellent list of wants .. meaning that you have collected all the details that you have identified, and rationales etc, into a systematic form.

 

An architect will need something higher level, as they will come in with concepts and ideas, a framework to hang the detail on. But they will start from the concept "forest", rather than a big list of individual trees. You now need to talk more about what sort of forest you eg dark and intimate or broadleaved with nuts to eat - pick up on concepts such as your love of light spaces etc, paths to the back (rather than a "1.1m path for diggers etc").

 

Two risks of supplying so much detail are firstly that that gets treated as all of it, so you have given an excuse if things you have missed get missed completely, and that you unintentionally limit the architect's creativity.

 

So I would be planning to either supply more of a summary, and say that your supportive thinking is attached, or holding off slightly with the full information. Depends on the individual you are dealing with.

 

In any  case, you have an excellent checklist for practicality of design.

 

Can't imagine living with only having one shelf for wineglasses, though. What about whisky and cocktails?

 

F

 

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Ferdinand

[jack]

@Ferdinand is bang on.

 

This is an excellent and useful document, but it includes an awful lot of stuff that is at best a distraction, and at worst potentially off-putting, for any potential architect. Much of this is the sort of info you should be thinking about when formulating a brief, rather than something that should form part of the brief itself.  

[Ferdinand]

Looking again after an hour, my further comments:

 

1 - I think your first 4 tabs would be really useful for the architect, but still perhaps as supporting information to a 1-2 page brief with some indication that these are how you have developed your thinking and not a set of "rules".

2 - You do not seem to have covered house automation (unless I missed it).

 

F 

[Dreadnaught]

It is a comprehensive list (from which I stole a few ideas, thank you).  

 

One thing I thought was missing was a sense for how long you intend to live in it, which dictates the balance between a design highly tailored for yourselves and one designed for a generalised buyer.

 

I also felt that because of its level of detail, a sense of prioritisation was somewhat lost. Optional or even whimsical ideas were blended amongst requirements.

 

Love the idea of the pipe organ! 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Dreadnaught

[Ferdinand]

Missed the Pipe Organ. It had better be a Father Willis. Organs are really good value from converting churches, but they are like mistresses and traction engines ... the pleasure is intense, the expense is immense  ?

 

I think perhaps the most important thing I do not see, but you may be planning, is that you need to explain your understanding of the role of an architect in your project.

 

How would you react if someone gave you your package?

 

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Ferdinand

[epsilonGreedy]

My first thought before reading the comments was, the architect will bill £1000 just to read that, then another £2000 to comprehend it.

 

Such an exhaustive spec would make sense for a £1 million build cost property but does it make sense relative to your overall budget?

 

19 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

I think perhaps the most important thing I do not see, but you may be planning, is that you need to explain your understanding of the role of an architect in your project.

 

 

This is important because weighing down an architect under such a highly prescriptive spec might equate to creative handcuffs. That house spec is similar to walking into the GP's consulting room with a print off and saying this is the problem I have and I need the following pills.

[Carrerahill]

6 hours ago, puntloos said:

Well, as discussed:

 

- We are a small family living in Herts. 

- We've created a *detailed* requirements document in the form of a spreadsheet.

 

The spreadsheet is here

 

Would love to hear:

- What do you think in general

- What are we missing to give the Architect all the info they need

- What are great ideas or terrible ideas

- Any items that you think will greatly increase the cost?

 

Comments should be possible in Google drive, just rightclick->comment or use the keyboard shortcut. 

Make sure you're signed in to google if you want us to respond to the comment, or post it here on buildhub as well.

I appreciate you have put a lot of work into this, this, to an extent, is a common specification document. I'd think of this as Detailed Building Specification, although, it also lacks in plenty of more important details, probably the ones the architect care more about. I currently have one open in front of me for a major private healthcare provider, apart from obvious differences in the language used, the biggest difference is with formatting and it has a good index.

 

I'd use your spreadsheet as a base document to format and copy and paste the document in a word doc and then you can PDF it for dissemination to those tendering. 

 

The one I am looking at now simply has a front page, what it is, who it is for, who wrote it etc. page 2 is a nice easy to read index which splits a whole hospital down into 15 chapters, within these 15 chapters further breakdown exists. So it allows me to go directly to the chapter(s) that are relevant to me: Mechanical, Electrical, possibly Data. I am not involved in "Joinery" but looking at that as an example it basically has a written spec for every detail, then there is a schedule of materials including door, skirting, hinge, timbers with model/types and manufacturer listed. In less than 20 seconds I can tell you where to source the hinges for the doors and what finish and screw to use. 

 

When you then hand this document over it can be easily read, for example, basically all the electrical systems and home media and all sorts is totally irrelevant to the architect, unless of course you need a detail to house a projector or screen, in which case that goes into the main building spec or do a room matrix which lists what each room must have. Often a room matrix is an A4 or A3 landscape page which has a clear and concise grid/table that goes through each step from the floor upwards. It would not mention sub-floors and wall make up as that is general construction but it might start at Flooring then have a breakdown of the carpet, then onto skirting, Howdens Oak skirting, then paint so on and so forth until the light switch make and model is listed (although no electrical spec, just that they want MK for example). 

 

A good spec will allow you to literally read 1 or 2 chapters or paragraphs and every detail that pertains to your involvement or trade or specialism can be understood and then followed. Reshape it a bit, knock down some of the points, does your architect care about a projector model... 

 

I'd also remove all the questions/research, this is a spec, have a separate titled, dated, revision marked page or document that has these questions on it, this is easier to deal with.

 

I think the column, "purpose" of a room could be removed - self explanatory, the longer it takes to read the more it will cost. 

 

Why does anyone in your build need to know your lifestyle, you use your lifestyle to design the building and make it suit, but an architect doesn't want to have to mentally put on your shoes and come up with a suitable house. I think this should go in it's entirety. 

 

Get rid of brands, architect doesn't care - this would be more for the final spec to give your main contractor - however, I assume you will purchase your own items and free issue them to the relevant contractors for installation? In which case no one really cares about most of these things until fit out - just make sure any sizes or building details to accommodate these items is allowed for.

 

Ideas section is fair enough - it's your wish list. I'd arrange them by priority though, lets them concentrate on your highs.

 

Remove storage and simply add it to the requirements.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Carrerahill

[Jilly]

I agree with the others, it's fine to have a place where you can collect your thoughts, but this is far too detailed for the architect. I can see you've had fun, thinking about what you love and hate. Much of it can just be filed away for when you get to that stage  of the build. 

Try to think more conceptually about the look and layout of the building and let the detailed ergonomics of design lead your choice of finish later, when you know how much the fabric of the building is going to cost and the practicalities and limitations of the site.

My instinct is that you may be heading over budget, so consider where you might compromise. The plot might dictate the layout possibilities. 

Did you see the thread on Sageglass  to negate the need for shading? 

[Declan52]

A lot of the details on your list your architect won't be one bit interested in. Things like your av equipment, lights and ethernet requirements will be dealt by your spark. All your bathroom details by your plumber and wherever you intend to buy the goods from. 

You need to strip that list right back to things like how you want the house to look from the outside, white render or wood cladding or stone. What you want it to be made from, timber, block etc. The size of the rooms and how you move from room to room, things like do you want a kitchen or a kitchen dining room play room entertaining room all in one type setup.

Position of Windows and their heights so you can look at a view for example. How well insulated the want the house to be, you won't be able to sleep in a bedroom that is 24 degrees. 

Basically all the structural elements is the only things the architect really wants to know. Then it can be drew up and you can see if that suits what you had in mind. Change the bits you don't like then after a few revisions you will have your plan. 

Once you have your plan then you can go to a  timber frame company, groundwork crew,spark, plumber,mhrv, lift supplier etc and let them have a look at it and see if it all can be done the way you want it to be done. You can then change an internal wall position for example if it needs to be done for your lift.

 

[puntloos]

Hi all,

 

Wow tons of responses - I will get to them but a few important common themes:

 

- Completely agree there is some structure missing - you just haven't seen it -We did lay out our "In a few paragraphs" definitions, also the Architect has come by and talked with us for 3 hours, following her own process as well.  I should find it and include.

- Ordering - we actually ranked/prioritized our items in the 'real' version of the spreadsheet, where L1 is high level points, L2 was more narrowed down ideas and L3 was small details probably not worth fretting about. I removed those for privacy reasons (I was in a bit of a rush)

 

Funny, that some of you saw the list as "If anything is missing, it's an excuse not to do it" while so far I was reading things as "if anything is there, there's no excuse to leave it out"

 

OK gotta run. More responses later

[Ferdinand]

21 minutes ago, puntloos said:

Funny, that some of you saw the list as "If anything is missing, it's an excuse not to do it" while so far I was reading things as "if anything is there, there's no excuse to leave it out"

 

Depends entirely how you handle it, and is why the fluffy soft stuff matters.

 

If you go in with eg ‘we are SELF BUILDERS and we KNOW WHAT WE WANT and that’s our DETAILED SPECIFICATION’, with or without the Dom Joly telephone, then the A will correctly assume that anything left out is intended to be left out. And the responsibility for your missing hall light switch on the landing will be yours.

 

If A is already alongside then she can appreciate the process rather than just the stack of docs. You now need to supply top notch coffee or bubbles.

 

There is a need to be definitive, but also warm and fluffy so the architect will engage as well as obey. If you are going in with the above caricature approach then you would need a plans-drawer or technician, not an architect, as they A would charge you A rates for a T job, and be unhappy and frustrated.

 

F

Edited October 3, 2019 by Ferdinand

[puntloos]

In general - I'm cutting out comments we all agree on or that are a bit repeated - thank you for them - but to keep things clean I'll stick to some details. If I left out responding to important stuff please re-highlight!

 

On 03/10/2019 at 07:59, AnonymousBosch said:

I find your brief difficult to read: it's hard to get a feel the 'whole' brief. The level of detail is a little daunting. 

 

Not unfair but with a spreadsheet it's fairly doable to sort e.g. by subject. Once the arch is focusing on say the kitchen it's easy to get the 10-odd points about the kitchen in a row.

 

On 03/10/2019 at 07:59, AnonymousBosch said:

A key part of understanding a text comes from the way the ideas (not merely the sentences) link with one another. Understanding is also helped by readablity.

In terms of readability, the spreadsheet format - while useful for things like matching performance against criteria - doesn't help the general reader.

 

Maybe a simple narrative text would help people like me? 

Fair point, we had this in words, and also a few .. (ha).. bullet points. We are both engineers, I guess that makes us think in spreadsheets

 

I've added that, and (gasp) paragraphs of text now. How's this? ("High Level" tab)

 

On 03/10/2019 at 08:14, ProDave said:

I agree with the above.  Give that list to an architect and he is just going to see the £££ signs for implementing all that detail.

 

Assuming you have a plot already, I would start sketching house layouts yourself to try and get all the rooms and storage spaces you need with the separation you want, and then give that initial idea to the architect.

 

We've done that in full 3D, but stopped ourselves from giving it to the Architect since we don't want to constrain them to thinking about our ideas initially.

Once they come up with first sketches we'll def give them a tour of our ideas. 

 

 

On 03/10/2019 at 08:38, Ferdinand said:

Someone has been collecting all our bees and now you have a bonnetful !

 

I agree that it is an excellent list of wants .. meaning that you have collected all the details that you have identified, and rationales etc, into a systematic form.

 

Two risks of supplying so much detail are firstly that that gets treated as all of it, so you have given an excuse if things you have missed get missed completely, and that you unintentionally limit the architect's creativity.

 

As we mentioned elsewhere, yes the Arch's remit is definitely the overall product so we do not want to step in and 'DIY' the design.

On 03/10/2019 at 08:38, Ferdinand said:

 

So I would be planning to either supply more of a summary, and say that your supportive thinking is attached, or holding off slightly with the full information. Depends on the individual you are dealing with.

 

The arch seemed to be enthusiastic about it. More info is better. Nice.

 

On 03/10/2019 at 08:38, Ferdinand said:

In any  case, you have an excellent checklist for practicality of design.

 

Can't imagine living with only having one shelf for wineglasses, though. What about whisky and cocktails?

 

True, and cognac.

 

On 03/10/2019 at 09:03, Ferdinand said:

2 - You do not seem to have covered house automation (unless I missed it).

 

I'm pretty light on this, agreed. But my thinking was that as long as the cabling is all there (e.g. ethernet to all the places, good wifi, networking closet), then I can do most of the rest later? Or do you figure there are home automation things that need to be designed early?

 

 

On 03/10/2019 at 09:19, Ferdinand said:

Missed the Pipe Organ. It had better be a Father Willis. Organs are really good value from converting churches, but they are like mistresses and traction engines ... the pleasure is intense, the expense is immense  ?

 

I just need to be able to play Bach's Dracula song such that it seems to be emanating from below the wooden beams.

 

On 03/10/2019 at 09:19, Ferdinand said:

I think perhaps the most important thing I do not see, but you may be planning, is that you need to explain your understanding of the role of an architect in your project.

 

Indeed, for us the architect is responsible for the "flow" of the house, making sure everything has been designed not as individual tickboxes but somehow everything works together

 

On 03/10/2019 at 09:19, Ferdinand said:

How would you react if someone gave you your package?

Not sure what you mean actually?

 

(more responses later, gotta go)

 

[puntloos]

On 03/10/2019 at 08:59, jack said:

@Ferdinand is bang on.

 

This is an excellent and useful document, but it includes an awful lot of stuff that is at best a distraction, and at worst potentially off-putting, for any potential architect. Much of this is the sort of info you should be thinking about when formulating a brief, rather than something that should form part of the brief itself.  

 

I was wondering about what to really call it. Brief, by definition is 'short', but IMO it is also well, a definition. (heh). And if you care about things you should define them. 

On 03/10/2019 at 09:04, Dreadnaught said:

One thing I thought was missing was a sense for how long you intend to live in it, which dictates the balance between a design highly tailored for yourselves and one designed for a generalised buyer.

 

Added (the Arch did know)

 

On 03/10/2019 at 09:04, Dreadnaught said:

I also felt that because of its level of detail, a sense of prioritisation was somewhat lost. Optional or even whimsical ideas were blended amongst requirements.

Prioritisation column is in there ?

 

On 03/10/2019 at 09:45, epsilonGreedy said:

My first thought before reading the comments was, the architect will bill £1000 just to read that, then another £2000 to comprehend it.

 

Ha, the arch isn't charging per hour though, so not an issue.

 

On 03/10/2019 at 09:45, epsilonGreedy said:

Such an exhaustive spec would make sense for a £1 million build cost property but does it make sense relative to your overall budget?

 

This is important because weighing down an architect under such a highly prescriptive spec might equate to creative handcuffs. That house spec is similar to walking into the GP's consulting room with a print off and saying this is the problem I have and I need the following pills.

 

 

Ha, kindasorta. I'd like to see it more as going into a restaurant and telling the chef that I want a rice dish. We tried to have our items only reflect what goal we wanted (at least the high level ones) not how to get there, so for example 'large open living space' but not prescriptive of the shape or where the kitchen and dining sections would go..

 

On 03/10/2019 at 10:31, Carrerahill said:

I appreciate you have put a lot of work into this, this, to an extent, is a common specification document. I'd think of this as Detailed Building Specification, although, it also lacks in plenty of more important details, probably the ones the architect care more about. 

Thanks @Carrerahill for the detailed response!

 

Indeed I'm hoping to give them space to do their part, and focus on their creativity and experience, because that's exactly the thing I lack. (well, amongst others Im sure) 

 

On 03/10/2019 at 10:31, Carrerahill said:

I currently have one open in front of me for a major private healthcare provider, apart from obvious differences in the language used, the biggest difference is with formatting and it has a good index.

 

Ha interesting!

On 03/10/2019 at 10:31, Carrerahill said:

I'd use your spreadsheet as a base document to format and copy and paste the document in a word doc and then you can PDF it for dissemination to those tendering. 

 

The one I am looking at now simply has a front page, what it is, who it is for, who wrote it etc. page 2 is a nice easy to read index which splits a whole hospital down into 15 chapters, within these 15 chapters further breakdown exists. So it allows me to go directly to the chapter(s) that are relevant to me: Mechanical, Electrical, possibly Data. I am not involved in "Joinery" but looking at that as an example it basically has a written spec for every detail, then there is a schedule of materials including door, skirting, hinge, timbers with model/types and manufacturer listed. In less than 20 seconds I can tell you where to source the hinges for the doors and what finish and screw to use. 

 

That's really helpful, I might see if I can provide such a view. Of course (?) you can sort the spreadsheet amongst topics and areas. I don't think I have the level of insight to go into great detail around mech/elec/joinery 

 

On 03/10/2019 at 10:31, Carrerahill said:

When you then hand this document over it can be easily read, for example, basically all the electrical systems and home media and all sorts is totally irrelevant to the architect, unless of course you need a detail to house a projector or screen, in which case that goes into the main building spec or do a room matrix which lists what each room must have. Often a room matrix is an A4 or A3 landscape page which has a clear and concise grid/table that goes through each step from the floor upwards. It would not mention sub-floors and wall make up as that is general construction but it might start at Flooring then have a breakdown of the carpet, then onto skirting, Howdens Oak skirting, then paint so on and so forth until the light switch make and model is listed (although no electrical spec, just that they want MK for example). 

 

Great idea, I might give that a shot. Of course we're also paying the architect to do suchlike, but I am a big fan of templates, so my thinking can be guided a little in areas I might've not thought about. I don't know anything about joinery or skirting to make a sensible choice (yet)

 

On 03/10/2019 at 10:31, Carrerahill said:

A good spec will allow you to literally read 1 or 2 chapters or paragraphs and every detail that pertains to your involvement or trade or specialism can be understood and then followed. Reshape it a bit, knock down some of the points, does your architect care about a projector model... 

 

 

I'd also remove all the questions/research, this is a spec, have a separate titled, dated, revision marked page or document that has these questions on it, this is easier to deal with.

 

Fair, it's better to have one document per specialist, indeed this one is really our master doc that aggregates most/all of our knowledge/wishes/ideas

 

On 03/10/2019 at 10:31, Carrerahill said:

I think the column, "purpose" of a room could be removed - self explanatory, the longer it takes to read the more it will cost. 

Fair

 

On 03/10/2019 at 10:31, Carrerahill said:

Why does anyone in your build need to know your lifestyle,

Not sure I quite understand. Surely the architect would want to know a few of our routines so they can be optimized for? As an example from my own area, computer software, you would want things in the interface (menus, icons) both grouped, as well as in a logical progression, so for a certain set of actions everything is within arms reach...

On 03/10/2019 at 10:31, Carrerahill said:

 

you use your lifestyle to design the building and make it suit

So.. exactly, the .. designer.. needs to design the building around our lifestyle? The Architect is the designer so they need to know?

On 03/10/2019 at 10:31, Carrerahill said:

 but an architect doesn't want to have to mentally put on your shoes and come up with a suitable house. I think this should go in it's entirety. 

To be clear, I understand that we are doing more legwork than most clients typically do, but we expect the architect to compose this all into a coherent whole, we are not trying to do that job.. 

 

 

 

On 03/10/2019 at 10:31, Carrerahill said:

 

Get rid of brands, architect doesn't care - this would be more for the final spec to give your main contractor - however, I assume you will purchase your own items and free issue them to the relevant contractors for installation? In which case no one really cares about most of these things until fit out - just make sure any sizes or building details to accommodate these items is allowed for.

 

Well, as a simple example, the projector I have in mind is 25x50x50cm so if you want to design a ceiling lift, the hole in the ceiling needs to be that big?

Or I want a kitchen tap that's attached to the wall, not to the sink, so someone needs to know the pipe has to come out of the wall? 

But granted, these details are perhaps best split out (again, agreed it's better to give the specialists customized docs, this is the master doc)

 

On 03/10/2019 at 10:31, Carrerahill said:

 

Ideas section is fair enough - it's your wish list. I'd arrange them by priority though, lets them concentrate on your highs.

 

Remove storage and simply add it to the requirements.

 

 

 

Good point.

[puntloos]

On 03/10/2019 at 11:36, Jilly said:

I agree with the others, it's fine to have a place where you can collect your thoughts, but this is far too detailed for the architect. I can see you've had fun, thinking about what you love and hate. Much of it can just be filed away for when you get to that stage  of the build. 

Agreed, we have done this a bit already but need to separate out what is for which stages. Many things have implications of course. For example the brand of projector matters in how big the hole in the ceiling has to be and which types of cables need to go to it, and then the size of the freezer impacts the kitchen dimensions (a little) etc, the hob dimensions matter to the island design.. (I'm tempted by the Novy Panorama, which is 4 burners in a row, not the usual 2x2 grid )

 

On 03/10/2019 at 11:36, Jilly said:

Try to think more conceptually about the look and layout of the building

 

Do you have any specific examples? I think I might lack the vocabulary for deeply expressing housing concepts. A wine taster might know about the 'nose' and 'dryness' of a wine, are there such terms with universal meanings that architects all know? I want an airy place with warm hues...

 

 

On 03/10/2019 at 11:36, Jilly said:

 

and let the detailed ergonomics of design lead your choice of finish later, when you know how much the fabric of the building is going to cost and the practicalities and limitations of the site.

My instinct is that you may be heading over budget, so consider where you might compromise.

Interesting! you might be right, someone else in this thread also said that some people might get dollar signs in their eyes.. Any specifics that stand out as 'pricey'? 

Of course(?) details I specified like 'rainwater collection' or 'gas to the garden shed' (just as examples) will of course cost a bit, compared to not doing it, and I imagine the rule of thumb of 2250/sqm doesn't include 'cute things' like that?

 

On 03/10/2019 at 11:36, Jilly said:

The plot might dictate the layout possibilities. 

Did you see the thread on Sageglass  to negate the need for shading? 

No I will check it out. I imagined that sageglass can block light from entering, but the heat would be created on the 'darkening layer' which is already kinda inside the house. 

 

Of course awnings serve the dual purpose of providing shade (and occasional rain cover) on the terrace too, but Sage is worth considering if it helps to substantially reduce the solar gain..

 

On 03/10/2019 at 12:09, Declan52 said:

A lot of the details on your list your architect won't be one bit interested in. Things like your av equipment, lights and ethernet requirements will be dealt by your spark.

Interesting you say that, my hunch is/was that a great architect would be interested in how the lighting works since it impacts the colors, warmth of the space etc etc.

Perhaps not?

 

Also when it comes to electrics I imagined having space for the ducting had some knock-on effect for architect. And indeed the physical size of the AV stuff matters, no? E.g. the size of a subwoofer matter if you want to enclose it a little inside a feature.

 

On 03/10/2019 at 12:09, Declan52 said:

All your bathroom details by your plumber and wherever you intend to buy the goods from. 

You need to strip that list right back to things like how you want the house to look from the outside, white render or wood cladding or stone. What you want it to be made from, timber, block etc.

Ha, honestly we have less interest in the outside. Of course 'nice' is good and 'in keeping' is probably required, and resalability is perhaps a factor but we care a lot more about the internals. 

On 03/10/2019 at 12:09, Declan52 said:

The size of the rooms and how you move from room to room

Do you mean the walkways, how rooms are connected? That is specifically what I imagined the Arch to be an expert in?

On 03/10/2019 at 12:09, Declan52 said:

, things like do you want a kitchen or a kitchen dining room play room entertaining room all in one type setup.

That bit we specified in detail thogh..

 

On 03/10/2019 at 12:09, Declan52 said:

Position of Windows and their heights so you can look at a view for example.

I consider that an Arch job?

On 03/10/2019 at 12:09, Declan52 said:

How well insulated the want the house to be, you won't be able to sleep in a bedroom that is 24 degrees. 

Yep but we specified the temperature ranges we'd be happy with.

 

On 03/10/2019 at 12:09, Declan52 said:

Basically all the structural elements is the only things the architect really wants to know. Then it can be drew up and you can see if that suits what you had in mind. Change the bits you don't like then after a few revisions you will have your plan. 

It's a fair approach, but I have the impression you would give the architect too many constraints for my tastes.. the above things I'd prefer the Arch to come up with rather than that I dictate them without knowing the downsides. E.g. if I 'demand' hard wood floors, can I not have underfloor heating that's effective etc etc.

On 03/10/2019 at 12:09, Declan52 said:

Once you have your plan then you can go to a  timber frame company, groundwork crew,spark, plumber,mhrv, lift supplier etc and let them have a look at it and see if it all can be done the way you want it to be done. You can then change an internal wall position for example if it needs to be done for your lift.

 

 

This is great stuff thank you. Like noted I think you are more 'hands on' than I imagine myself to be, since I just don't know what things affect each other, so I prefer the Arch to come up with a harmonious house concept rather than that I demand things just because I saw them in a picture once..

 

On 03/10/2019 at 12:34, Ferdinand said:

 

Depends entirely how you handle it, and is why the fluffy soft stuff matters.

 

If you go in with eg ‘we are SELF BUILDERS and we KNOW WHAT WE WANT and that’s our DETAILED SPECIFICATION’, with or without the Dom Joly telephone, then the A will correctly assume that anything left out is intended to be left out. And the responsibility for your missing hall light switch on the landing will be yours.

 

If A is already alongside then she can appreciate the process rather than just the stack of docs. You now need to supply top notch coffee or bubbles.

 

Hmm not sure putting the Arch in our bath is appropriate. 

 

On 03/10/2019 at 12:34, Ferdinand said:

There is a need to be definitive, but also warm and fluffy so the architect will engage as well as obey. If you are going in with the above caricature approach then you would need a plans-drawer or technician, not an architect, as they A would charge you A rates for a T job, and be unhappy and frustrated.

 

Yeah, I think we really do want an architect to get a coherent house with as much freedom as we can give them, but nailing down things we are certain about. 

 

[puntloos]

2 hours ago, Sensus said:

 

Speaking as an architect, I'd very much agree with this. I can see an awful lot of individual trees there, but I'm not seeing a good idea of your forest, and it could take a lot of conceptual design work (hence cost) to find it for you.

 

Also, architects tend to think visually. A great deal of what you've tabulated on that spreadsheet could be distilled into a bubble diagram that shows how the spaces should relate to each other. My first step, if presented with your spreadsheet, would be to do just that - but it would take me several hours (£££) to do so, before I was even ready to move on to initial conceptual design, and you could save me the trouble, and yourself the cost, by doing the bubble diagram for me... and it might help clarify things in your own mind too.:

 

 

That'a super helpful. As I said earlier I think I lack the awareness of such tools to clarify things.. this helps a ton. Any other ways to 'sketch the forest' you reccommend?

 

One fact is that we don't truly have an idea of what we want connected to what, we figured that was the Arch's job to optimize? No?

 

As noted I updated my verbal description:

 

We want a house that is tailored well to our needs. We care fairly little to 'resale' value, but of course don't want to do absolutely off-putting things. Through our talks so far we don't seem to be too eclectic in our tastes. We care about light a lot, dark houses depress us, especially in winter when things are already gloomy. That said, too much light means a poor cinema experience, sleeping experience and quite possibly heat isses, so we want to carefully control the light situation, probably through some motorized shading.

 

We're particular about how the environment is working, father is an audiophile and appreciates great music, our default will probably be everybody (parents+kid) in one area, doing their things, incl watching TV, cooking, studying but sometimes we just need to do our own thing, retreat to a quiet space. Effectively we need 3 spaces suitable for daytime/evening living, perhaps the living room, the office and the kid's room qualify well enough for the individuals to be separate.

 

Care a lot about green/low carbon footprint living, so things like solar panels, near-passivhaus, MVHR, electric car, water from roof etc are all things we want to include if sensible. But comfort trumps these, so we do want 'powered' compensation for extreme days, e.g. have an AC/Heating circuit next to the MVHR to take over if things get too toasty.

 

We're not big fans of traditional hints, e.g. wooden beams, fireplaces in every room, or sash windows. The place might have to look in-keeping-with from the outside, but internally we care about warm but contemporary. Few frills, no elaborate patterns in kitchen doors, cornices etc, simple geometric shapes, easier to clean too.

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by puntloos

[Jilly]

Architects are artists, and you seem to be people who are  more concerned with how things (and sound) than how things look, so you may have to break out of your comfort zone and look at a lot of exteriors of houses to understand your likes and dislikes, and also their previous work. Chose one whose work you like and you should be ok.

[Visti]

We had a one pager where we went through our priorities, the sorts of lifestyles each of us lead and what we wanted out of our own house. We also listed basic requirements for the rooms we needed, but that was an aside. We let the architect take it from there after an hour discussing our style. See attached

 

Can only recommend giving them as much freedom to work with if you are indeed forking out for a dedicated architect. Else I'd have a stab myself and get someone to draft it up for you 

197_Graven Hill Vistisen_Briefing Document_260417_DRAFT.pdf

[puntloos]

1 hour ago, Jilly said:

Architects are artists, and you seem to be people who are  more concerned with how things (and sound) than how things look, so you may have to break out of your comfort zone and look at a lot of exteriors of houses to understand your likes and dislikes, and also their previous work. Chose one whose work you like and you should be ok.

You're not wrong but that's exactly what we wanted to do - set only the guardrails - we tried to be as specific as we could on things we value, but left as much as we could up to the artist, for example the shape and size of the rooms are completely open. As @Sensus suggested, the graph is great to have, but I'm not sure we should be the ones creating it.

 

More in particular, perhaps I'm wrong but part of the Architect skillset is understanding how often people need to go from room A to room B and under what circumstances etc, versus for example the benefits and downsides of having a walk-in closet vs a bigger bedroom etc.

 

Anyway I did sketch suchlike now, but I'm not quite sure this is just my idea vs if this really is not the remit of the artist?

 

[Carrerahill]

On 05/10/2019 at 16:57, puntloos said:

Not sure I quite understand. Surely the architect would want to know a few of our routines so they can be optimised for? As an example from my own area, computer software, you would want things in the interface (menus, icons) both grouped, as well as in a logical progression, so for a certain set of actions everything is within arms reach...

So.. exactly, the .. designer.. needs to design the building around our lifestyle? The Architect is the designer so they need to know?

To be clear, I understand that we are doing more legwork than most clients typically do, but we expect the architect to compose this all into a coherent whole, we are not trying to do that job.. 

Well, as a simple example, the projector I have in mind is 25x50x50cm so if you want to design a ceiling lift, the hole in the ceiling needs to be that big?

Or I want a kitchen tap that's attached to the wall, not to the sink, so someone needs to know the pipe has to come out of the wall? 

But granted, these details are perhaps best split out (again, agreed it's better to give the specialists customised docs, this is the master doc)

All I was saying is that don't make your architect decipher your life too much, I've sat around the board room table for many a kick-off meeting, from a private individual to Saudi Aramco's entourage of Saudi Princes and there is an idea, a seedling, of what they want, maybe something as simple as a sketch to artists impressions and a spec of sorts. I don't want to know that at 08:00 Mrs Jones makes toast while Mr. Jones takes a shower after which he then moves to a seating area to be served his toast. I want Mr and Mrs Jones to tell me they need a shower somewhere a worktop to put the toaster and room or area big enough to house a dining table. 

 

If someone started to go on about life-style I would polity ask them to turn that into a document or even a simple list of what they require for them to lead this lifestyle. 

 

As for the projector, I appreciate things like that must be planned for, but as I said in my post above, "... just make sure any sizes or building details to accommodate these items is allowed for".

 

Regarding something like a tap - I would arrange that with the plumber at first fix in his spec.

[jack]

On 05/10/2019 at 16:57, puntloos said:

Well, as a simple example, the projector I have in mind is 25x50x50cm so if you want to design a ceiling lift, the hole in the ceiling needs to be that big?? 

 

But why would you design a specific element of a house around a specific consumer item that might die within 5 years of purchase? You're better off just saying "there needs to be space, support and connections for a projector", and make sure to provide for the maximum size of any likely future projector. Either way, home cinema requirements aren't something I'd expect a typical architect to know about. 

 

On 05/10/2019 at 16:57, puntloos said:

Or I want a kitchen tap that's attached to the wall, not to the sink, so someone needs to know the pipe has to come out of the wall? 

 

Our architect doesn't know where/how our taps are mounted. Sure, consideration needs to be given to, eg, sink and pipe placement if you want a wall-mounted tap in the kitchen (good luck finding one of these, incidentally. We weren't able to fine one we liked the look of). But for the most part this is something I'd expect to discuss with the plumber and kitchen fitter.

[Declan52]

21 minutes ago, jack said:

 

But why would you design a specific element of a house around a specific consumer item that might die within 5 years of purchase? You're better off just saying "there needs to be space, support and connections for a projector", and make sure to provide for the maximum size of any likely future projector. Either way, home cinema requirements aren't something I'd expect a typical architect to know about. 

 

 

Our architect doesn't know where/how our taps are mounted. Sure, consideration needs to be given to, eg, sink and pipe placement if you want a wall-mounted tap in the kitchen (good luck finding one of these, incidentally. We weren't able to fine one we liked the look of). But for the most part this is something I'd expect to discuss with the plumber and kitchen fitter.

Exactly. Why would you design in a space to house a ceiling mounted projector when technology has moved on. 

 

Short throw 4k projector is where you need to be looking. Won't require any additional work other than the normal ethernet cables,hdmi , speaker etc that you plan to use anyway. Will just sit on a unit and look like an ordinary set top box.