Wonky roof tile new build

[bBooth]

Seen my new build progressing and now scaffolding has been reduced the roof tiles to the right side look wonky, probably thinking battens not running parallel and been tiled after, but would of expected the roofers to correct before finishing- is this something that the builder would put right or does it fall into NHBC tolerances, not completed yet so wanted your views on is this normal or is it a bad job cheers 

[Thedreamer]

Looks untidy to me, but may be a reason for this.

 

Do you have any earlier photos of the battens? 

 

Is this a self build or a house you have purchased in a development?

[bBooth]

Unfortunately not, because of the scaffolding it is impossible to see this section earlier in the build- another pic shows the show house same style as mine, the tile is straight on this.

 

housebuilder home too.

 

 

[Oz07]

point it out now to the builder

[Thedreamer]

Maybe somebody else with roofing experience can help.

 

Just out of interest, are you able to go in whether you want and see what is happening inside? Or to track progress do you just rock up on the street and take external photos?

 

I've taken photos every time any works been done on our self build, partly to track progress but also to have records where approximately stuff is.

 

@Oz07 not sure how this works on a development, presumably you have to go to a showroom/sales team and discuss?

 

[nod]

If it’s bothering you now 

Nows the time to say Something

Badly set out

Not a quick fix

They would have to put the scaf back at the front and strip back from the top To get at the lower Batons 

[Carrerahill]

1 hour ago, bBooth said:

Seen my new build progressing and now scaffolding has been reduced the roof tiles to the right side look wonky, probably thinking battens not running parallel and been tiled after, but would of expected the roofers to correct before finishing- is this something that the builder would put right or does it fall into NHBC tolerances, not completed yet so wanted your views on is this normal or is it a bad job cheers.

Yeah it's wrong, and I would not even expect myself, a DIYer roofer of only a year now to do that! From my experience I think I can shed some light on it.

 

Things went wrong on the first 6 battens on the RHS of the dormer, the dormer has basically messed them up - easily fixed - remove all the tiles for the first 6 rows on the RHS of the dormer, straighten the battens and relay tiles. If I had to do it I reckon it would be an hour tops to fix so they should not object too much. The 7th and above rows looks good, so they just need to measure down to the 6th batten - it will not be parallel to the 7th and the subsequent lower battens then run off too. 

 

I suspect they have messed up when they tried to ping their line across the roof after the dormer, as it would not be a clear line they would have had to try and continue their line after the dormer and lost their way. From the methods I have used I would probably just measure and mark it manually based on a measure down from higher main roof battens this then means the whole roof is taken from the same datum - if they assumed the sub-fascia to be the same all along and measured up on the short piece it could lead to this issue, the corbel at the gable end may have thrown them.

 

I did something like this on my garage last year - first time I had laid a tile roof - I started on one side, and I was happy to take my time to get it right, I then had the other side to do and then this year I did my extension roof - I am now confident enough that next year I plan to do the main house roof.

 

The clever bit is the battens - get that right and a monkey could lay the tiles and get it right. So people with a good eye for detail and good at woodwork will manage this easily. 2 roofs have been done round here recently that I watched daily as I walked with the dog - both of them I would condemn and I know what they have done wrong and how to fix it, which makes me mad as I am not a roofer and why I largely do not have trades in for anything. 

 

My battens ran out a little, mistake I made was how I marked them - I put in the first and top batten then measured and marked the rest but as I went up I think I was gaining 1-2mm - which at that you will get away with but over 10 battens you end up with 10-20mm and tiles not sitting well. I lifted 210 tiles - stacked them high on the roof, redid all the battens on the bottom half, moved my stacks then did the top battens - I ended up making spacer blocks, by the second side of the roof I was using spacing blocks for checking and a chalk line - by the extension I was using only a chalk line and double checking before each end was nailed then the centre and nailed it. 

 

Roofing is full of little details you need to learn - master these and do things right and it really is very easy. I did my own lead-work, and enjoyed working with the lead and taking lots of care when cutting the chase - I sheeted my new roof and made sure old render and dust didn't cover my membrane. I watched the roofers I mentioned earlier cut chases and remove render from chimneys and the stones and dust was all over the membrane, then the lazy sods walked all over it, I could see punctures and tears all over the membrane - made me so mad know that perfectly good materials had just been monkeyed onto a roof. The firm were a roofing company of a fixed address and multiple van fleet so not just the local tarmac crew having a roofing day before starting on tree surgery. 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Carrerahill

[bBooth]

52 minutes ago, Thedreamer said:

Maybe somebody else with roofing experience can help.

 

Just out of interest, are you able to go in whether you want and see what is happening inside? Or to track progress do you just rock up on the street and take external photos?

 

I've taken photos every time any works been done on our self build, partly to track progress but also to have records where approximately stuff is.

 

@Oz07 not sure how this works on a development, presumably you have to go to a showroom/sales team and discuss?

 

The inside of the house is completed, but the house builder from day one has said us the purchasers are not allowed inside until completion notice is given where we go in and given a home demo and to highlight any snagging issues prior to getting keys, we can however ask tradesmen to go in on our behalf ie carpet fitters, wardrobe guys etc to measure up who sign in at the site office. We can’t even go in accompanied by the site manager. Frankly if the standard of work externally is poor,  not allowing you in till competition just hides the cutting corners inside. 

 

The completion date was set for May 19 but due to delays with the build it now sits mid September, if I bring the roof issue to their attention now i could face longer delay even though it is through sub standard work in first instance. That said leaving it could prove difficult to them returning once they have my 250k.

[nod]

3 minutes ago, bBooth said:

The inside of the house is completed, but the house builder from day one has said us the purchasers are not allowed inside until completion notice is given where we go in and given a home demo and to highlight any snagging issues prior to getting keys, we can however ask tradesmen to go in on our behalf ie carpet fitters, wardrobe guys etc to measure up who sign in at the site office. We can’t even go in accompanied by the site manager. Frankly if the standard of work externally is poor,  not allowing you in till competition just hides the cutting corners inside. 

 

The completion date was set for May 19 but due to delays with the build it now sits mid September, if I bring the roof issue to their attention now i could face longer delay even though it is through sub standard work in first instance. That said leaving it could prove difficult to them returning once they have my 250k.

If it’s bothering you now 

Nows the time to say Something

Badly set out

Not a quick fix

They would have to put the scaf back at the front and strip back from the top To get at the lower Batons 

3 minutes ago, bBooth said:

The inside of the house is completed, but the house builder from day one has said us the purchasers are not allowed inside until completion notice is given where we go in and given a home demo and to highlight any snagging issues prior to getting keys, we can however ask tradesmen to go in on our behalf ie carpet fitters, wardrobe guys etc to measure up who sign in at the site office. We can’t even go in accompanied by the site manager. Frankly if the standard of work externally is poor,  not allowing you in till competition just hides the cutting corners inside. 

 

The completion date was set for May 19 but due to delays with the build it now sits mid September, if I bring the roof issue to their attention now i could face longer delay even though it is through sub standard work in first instance. That said leaving it could prove difficult to them returning once they have my 250k.

It’s quite normal for him to tell you this 

More an HSS Issue

I would go and speak to sales

They have a vested interest in your purchase The site manager doesn’t 

 

The problem with snagging on the handover day is that you are already committed to buy 

[Carrerahill]

1 hour ago, nod said:

 

... strip back from the top To get at the lower Batons 

You don't need to strip a whole roof to get at lower tiles.

 

Roofers crowbar in - pop the nails up (if any on that row), slide the 7th row tile up and then the top of the 6th is exposed. If it was the case you needed to strip roofs for removing lower tiles it would cost £1000's to have a skylight installed. 

 

I also bet that the chances are they used the minimum number of fixings as stated in the building regs, I nailed every single tile on my roofs but that is me and that is my roof. 

 

An hour on a scaffolding to fix this at most.

 

 

[Declan52]

You have 2 options.

1st option is to bring it to their attention and get it fixed. Not a massive job. Scaffold up first 6/7 rows stripped back and the battens put on correctly. A half days work.

2nd option is to say nothing and let it annoy you every time you look up. 

No chance would I be buying a house without seeing the inside until completion day. The builder will know all the wheels are in motion and you will just want in by that day so all it does is buy him more time to complete the snag list. Which once he has your money in his bank he won't exactly be dancing to your tune when you call.

[bBooth]

2 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

You have 2 options.

1st option is to bring it to their attention and get it fixed. Not a massive job. Scaffold up first 6/7 rows stripped back and the battens put on correctly. A half days work.

2nd option is to say nothing and let it annoy you every time you look up. 

No chance would I be buying a house without seeing the inside until completion day. The builder will know all the wheels are in motion and you will just want in by that day so all it does is buy him more time to complete the snag list. Which once he has your money in his bank he won't exactly be dancing to your tune when you call.

We can see the inside during the completion notice period of two weeks, but doesn’t change fact that you are on legal notice to complete so you’ve committed to buy regardless of what faults are present, so if we go in on day one and there’s minor snags this gives them two weeks to put right before we collect keys. Hypothetically 

 

the only hold is they drum into you that there is a NHBC survey for some housebuilder awards scheme we complete and naturally they would like us to score them 10 on everything, if there is an issue talk to them prior to completing the survey and they’ll be happy to resolve-

 

it would annoy me that the roof isn’t a1 and where’s the pride in the contractor to not correct, I couldn’t leave it like that.

[Dee J]

1 hour ago, bBooth said:

, we can however ask tradesmen to go in on our behalf ie carpet fitters, wardrobe guys etc to measure up who sign in at the site office

On friendly terms with any trades people? Get your friendly carpet fitter or whatever to sign in and give it a once-over and some discrete photography....

[Russell griffiths]

I think you need to grow a pair, go And ask if they are happy with it, if they say that it’s ok then walk away, if they have not noticed it then what is the standard else where. 

[nod]

54 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

You don't need to strip a whole roof to get at lower tiles.

 

Roofers crowbar in - pop the nails up (if any on that row), slide the 7th row tile up and then the top of the 6th is exposed. If it was the case you needed to strip roofs for removing lower tiles it would cost £1000's to have a skylight installed. 

 

I also bet that the chances are they used the minimum number of fixings as stated in the building regs, I nailed every single tile on my roofs but that is me and that is my roof. 

 

An hour on a scaffolding to fix this at most.

 

 

Why would you care how they did it ?

The guys who roofed it would have been lucky to get a grand got the whole roof 

 

Your rattling on about crowbars and the easiest way to sort this out 

Think he just wants his roof looking right 

Or am I missing simthing 

[nod]

Just now, Russell griffiths said:

I think you need to grow a pair, go And ask if they are happy with it, if they say that it’s ok then walk away, if they have not noticed it then what is the standard else where. 

Blood hell Russ

You need to say what you mean ? 

[Declan52]

1 hour ago, bBooth said:

We can see the inside during the completion notice period of two weeks, but doesn’t change fact that you are on legal notice to complete so you’ve committed to buy regardless of what faults are present, so if we go in on day one and there’s minor snags this gives them two weeks to put right before we collect keys. Hypothetically 

 

the only hold is they drum into you that there is a NHBC survey for some housebuilder awards scheme we complete and naturally they would like us to score them 10 on everything, if there is an issue talk to them prior to completing the survey and they’ll be happy to resolve-

 

it would annoy me that the roof isn’t a1 and where’s the pride in the contractor to not correct, I couldn’t leave it like that.

If your banking on some survey results to make them fix anything then your in deep deep shat. 

[Russell griffiths]

1 hour ago, nod said:

Blood hell Russ

You need to say what you mean ? 

No need to sugar coat it, the blokes going to spend a quarter of a million pounds on that. 

Get it sorted or walk away. 

[nod]

42 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

No need to sugar coat it, the blokes going to spend a quarter of a million pounds on that. 

Get it sorted or walk away. 

So true Rus

The snagging on the day of handover that all the major players do is a real con 

You’ve already committed

A week before signing would be fairer 

Dealing with the site manager is pointless 

The sales person will have your back 

At least till you have put pen to paper  

[nod]

1 hour ago, Declan52 said:

If your banking on some survey results to make them fix anything then your in deep deep shat. 

?

[Jeremy Harris]

Well worth noting, that as we found out the hard way, and others have also found out, an NHBC warranty simply isn't worth the paper it's written on a lot of the time. 

 

We bought a new (ex-show) house on a small development, and it came with an NHBC warranty.  Because the house had been built around 18 months before we bought it, when we found a significant problem (water penetrating around the chimney and dripping down into a bedroom) we were into the stage where NHBC took responsibility, rather than the builder.  We fought a legal battle with NHBC for around a year, until our lawyer advised that we were going to spend more in fees trying to get redress than we would if we just paid to get things fixed.  I still have the photos somewhere of the poor workmanship on the roof, including lead flashing fitted the wrong way around, so that water could run under it.  There was never any doubt at all that the workmanship was poor, but NHBC are extremely adept at using delaying tactics to get out of paying up for rectification.  At the end of the day NHBC work for builders, not purchasers.  It's builders that pay them and call the shots, so they are always going to side with them over any purchaser.

 

I tend to agree with @Russell griffiths, it might seem harsh, but you really only have any leverage to get things fixed before you have finally committed to buy.  Builders can, and do, cover up a lot of defects, so anything you can do to get any sort of sneak preview would be to your advantage.

 

[MikeSharp01]

4 hours ago, bBooth said:

you’ve committed to buy regardless of what faults are present

That is a tough one but I cannot believe that the contract is so closely drawn that you can be forced to buy rubbish workpersonship. I assume the completion certificate must be signed off before payment- otherwise what would stop them just giving you a pile of bricks and broken tiles.They have you in a bind so you endeavour to turn the tables. Here is a thought experiment that probably needs refining but might have directional merit. Warn them now that you will sue the person who signs the certificate personally if it is signed off with the tiles as they are given that they knew they were defective when they signed them off. If they have any professional recognition Chartered or whatever you will process a complaint against them through that body / ask them to put their PI insurers on notice.. The individual cannot be protected by their employer in such cases other than by them paying for representation and all you need to do is show the investigating panel the picture of the tiles and how the person knew they were signing off defective workpersonship. If they offer to sort it ASAP after hand over you request a change to the contract at their expense to allow a hold back sum. If they refuse then the notice to sue continues. Now they are in a bind. Just a thought - bullying builders need challenging.

[ProDave]

I doubt building control would refuse to pass that (even if they looked)

 

The tile manufacturer will have specified a maximum and minimum overlap. As long as it is between that, it will be "sound" even if it varies between the min and max overlap.  

 

This is most likely a cosmetic / aesthetic "fault" and I can't see them doing anything, particularly as the fix is strip the roof, re set the battens, and re tile the roof.

[Ferdinand]

On 16/08/2019 at 15:35, bBooth said:

We can see the inside during the completion notice period of two weeks, but doesn’t change fact that you are on legal notice to complete so you’ve committed to buy regardless of what faults are present, so if we go in on day one and there’s minor snags this gives them two weeks to put right before we collect keys. Hypothetically 

 

the only hold is they drum into you that there is a NHBC survey for some housebuilder awards scheme we complete and naturally they would like us to score them 10 on everything, if there is an issue talk to them prior to completing the survey and they’ll be happy to resolve-

 

it would annoy me that the roof isn’t a1 and where’s the pride in the contractor to not correct, I couldn’t leave it like that.

 

I think the up and down of it is either bang the table and make them fix it, which you need to be willing to back up with refusing to complete (which requires you to be in a position to not move in if they try and face you down), accept and wait for them to repair or do it yourself, or walk away.

 

The only person I know on here who refused to complete as leverage was @newhome, who has a post about it somewhere.

 

F

[newhome]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

The only person I know on here who refused to complete as leverage was @newhome, who has a post about it somewhere.

 

 

Indeed I did. I refused to complete on completion day. Developer threatened to sue me. On you go I said as I had plenty of photo evidence that the house wasn’t finished. Their opinion that as long as I had one flushing loo and could cook was unbelievable. Most of the issues were fixed and we completed 2 weeks later. 

 

To the OP, you need to formally write to the developer explaining that the work is sub standard and that you expect it to be rectified before you will complete. Get your solicitor to do it now.