Ferdinand

That was the 'Harrogate is in the South' case, m'lud.

Ah. That is where it went. Wrong thread - sorry. The plastering looks very accomplished, and I love the number of electric sockets.

@TheLordJohn PS You also need to ask yourself about potential heritage works in a few years or a couple of decades. If you land yourself with a serious stained glass renovation project in 15 years, you will know that you are paying for it. Local congregations regularly raise between a couple of thou and tens of thou for such. Also, has it got any lead roofs? If those get stolen it will be pricey, and I do not see local council COs being as well informed or flexible as Church authorities. Church of England churches corporately spend about £160m a year on maintenance and new buildings, not including cathedrals. 100m plus of that is maintenance. That is an average of 6-10k per church building give or take. You need to make sure that you are at the right end of the spectrum. Ferdinand

I rest my case, m'lud. (Declares victory and cilmbs into bath).

But Harrogate is a part of the South that happens to be in Yorkshire...

There are different views about Planning Consultants, and whether they should be used. This is a short example of a Planning Consultant offering superb advice, that most of us self-builders would perhaps not think about. The Problem I have just received a Planning Permission, after 3 months of engagement with the Council. It is a commercial Change of Use but the lesson applies to self-builder permssions. We received our permission, but on the last morning the Planning Department applied an unacceptable Planning Condition which threatened the whole project. The Planning Condition clearly violates several of the basic tests. This condition had not been mentioned in the previous months of consultation, and I did not see it until it appeared on the Decision Notice. At this point the Planning Application has been "determined" (ie decided and frozen), so the Condition cannot be modified without a further Planning Application or an Appeal to the Planning Inspectorate. The problem is that a Full Appeal gives the Inspector the opportunity to reopen the basic Planning Application, and modify it - which I do not want. The Solution The recommendation from our Planning Consultant was: 1 - To apply for a Variation of the unacceptable condition, which might be accepted, then... 2 - To Appeal the Refusal of the application for the Variation if we need. The advantage is that we then if needed we can get a Determination by the Planning Inspectorate on the narrow point, while keeping all the other acceptable aspects of our Planning Permission out of their scope. The Learning Point As self-builders, we think about discharging Planning Conditions at the end of the build process. The same process can be used to vary them before we start building. It takes extra time and a fee, which is smaller than a Full Planning Application fee for a new dwelling, but does not run the risk of reopening the entire Permission to change. More information The appropriate form on the Planning Portal. Explanation of Planning Condition Variations on the Government Website.

Black Friday is 24 November.

@Visti Could you give us a quick summary on the main savings you have kept. Some of those have gone back up again - eg you have got your posh kitchen back . F

Perfect for a fish smoker.

Whatever you build it will look like the house of your dreams...

Fair enough. Thanks for the quick reply.

Probably, but it is also in stripes which suggests that there are particular causes.

@Cpd Colin. Sorry to be persnickety as it looks like an interesting comment. Any chance of separating it into paragraphs for readibility?

Not sure if I am supposed to say this as I am not on the Forum Management Group, but it is a user-financed forum and the Tip Jar appears here from time to time if you wish to contribute in due course. This is totally voluntary. No idea what others do, but I think a donation of £10-30 a year is probably OK towards the costs of keeping the place running and building up reserves.

Forgot to say. You need to put detailed thought into your VAT reclaim at the start, because how you set up your contracts, who buys what etc can have a major impact.

There is a Contents page above that which links a lot more potentially useful information: https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/vat-construction

@Visti OK. I promised some comments about broader site strategy. 1 - You can make a significant difference by what services put in when (and how), whether you get a storage container, and what you buy-then-sell (eg scaffolding, digger) or build-then-use (eg outside loo not portaloo or potentially storage office which turns into garden office) rather than rent, and how you sequence it. 2 - Consider bringing your energy, comms and water services to one or more kiosks or services box on the edge of sit, which gives you those services to use and means your contractors can take them further as needed without outside company buggeration and expenses. You also get proper supplies on site without having to pay for temporaries. Consider plumbing mains waste in early such that you can connect a loo to it. Put the loo where it can be removed again, or make it a permanent "forever loo" or something that is big enough (handwashing for builders in there too) that can turn into eg a potting shed or similar (garage?) in future, or just storage-with-a-sheltered-hose-connection eventually. 3 - Do what the big builders do with their and put down a drive sub base good enough to use and take heavy lorries etc, and finish it at the end. 4 - Think about storage first, and how you will keep it or remove it. On your site I would consider running in a 40ft storage container down where the drive will be to the back garden, or perhaps a combo office-storage Portable Building (which will come wired, windowed, clad inside and somewhat insulated). Then take it out at the end before you finally finish your drive / build the carport, or leave it in forever; that last may depend on the planners and what you ask for in the PP. Probably bring it in after the sub base drive is down, for ease of lorry or skate access to bring it in. Might be worth considering 2x20ft if they can be HIAB-ed directly. My dad once bought a nearly dead 40ft refrigerated (for the insulation) lorry trailer when he moved site, filled it up for its last journey, and backed it into his new yard as a storage facility. Was there for 18 years. 4 - I wonder if it is worth you investing in a 12 month subscription to SPONS, as you are very early in your process and profiling all your costs. @recoveringacademic has a sub and has posted repeatedly of the benefits. 5 - A final curve ball. Given Gravenhill, is there anything you can share with neighbours either side (leave a hole or a removable section in the fences), or rent to them, to reduce costs for both or make a few hundred £££. One aspect might be a water or energy supply or £15 a week for access to your outside built-in site loo if you have yours in early, or kit. Think about all these in advance too, and do them once. Ferdinand

Editing.

I mainly disagree with the 'architect rip off' comments in the thread above. No. It isn't a rude awakening; it is a helping hand up the necessary learning curve - you are fortunate that it is while you are building spreadsheets rather than while you are gazing at an unnecessarily pricey water-filled hole in the ground which has swallowed 30% of your money. I think you have engaged a known-good practice who have created an excellent house design for you that you like. Witness how detailed most of us had to be in our comments on your Intro thread to create feedback. A big chunk of what you have bought has been to reduce the risk of getting a poor design, and that has paid off already. They have a clear upfront fee structure which is not imo particularly overpriced for a London-based practice. They have given you a fixed fee price and structured cost package upfront rather than a % of the budget, which would normally be up to 15% depending on what services you are buying. When you talk to them, for heaven's sake try to not apply blame or imply any unacceptable motives on their part. I am sure you won't. Frame it as 'shocked by the estimated costs and can you help us address the issue'. The last thing you need is a bad relationship. Take the beloved out for a really nice extended meal and a film this w/e where the subject of self-build is BANNED. And I am one of the more sceptical on here wrt to some architectural practices. So now use the lessons to save 10x as much on the build as the extra you invested on the architect :-). 1000% return - bingo. Ferdinand

You are getting some excellent detailed advice here. I will come back with some more later, and some thoughts about site and purchasing strategy (eg connect to your services early including waste in order to save £20 a week for a Portaloo, and get a cashback Amex and Credit card to give you 0.5-1% off on the finance side for everyone who can take them). Ferdinand

Make it in small enough pieces, perhaps bolted together, so that you can get it out again for your next place - if there might be one. Keep an eye out for closing down shops, garages etc. Or put a request for the top surfaces on FreeCycle? We once (mother special) obtained a huge thick marble top from a butchers shop (8-10 ft long, 2 inches thick) when mum was buying meat and it was being removed - "I'll have that!". Took 4 men to put in the van, stuck out the back, and it was only removed by dad tying it to a tree and driving away. Supplied marble bits and pieces for years. F

General Points. I think the single biggest saving you can make is by not using your contingency, which on your revised costs would put you at £288k if you achieved it - within spitting distance. That needs you to sweat the detail first as far as possible and not fall prey to gold-plating later. You seem to be doing this - good. Even if, as has been suggested, the theoretical costs are "over", and you can afford it all in nearly-your-budget, I think the experience will have been a useful one. In Charlie's T&C, the basic architectural services are fixed cost, so that is in your favour. On the hard-nosed side, if it hits the 2 years, and - eg - you have not built your veranda, there will probably not be a lot they can practically do to enforce. Will they chuck you out? Repossess and sell on? Come after you for money you have not got, which taking away would prevent what they want happening ? It is almost going back to how they self-built or renovated houses way back when ... build the minimum then gradually upgrade as funds allow while living with cast-off furniture, a kitchenette and rush-matting. My parents did that on a renovation that took a couple of decades. Ferdinand

That phrase could have a multitude of meanings. Do you have a definition?

You might find that 18mm is hardly any more than 11mm. In which case you get full sarking, and you can probably nearly shuffle around on it.

I was thinking of PMs, and that TFL is in the sweet spot as a protected bureaucracy (=no competition) where the Govt cannot get at it due to reporting to the Mayor, and that the Mayor has not been able to crack down easily for political reasons for many years (though they are trying).They tend to get 2 free Go Anywhere in London season tickets. Last year, 500 staff earning over 100k. But I am OT.