Ferdinand

@Tom The interesting comments in the thread have made me think up a tool design to help thought about "Knowns" and "Unknowns", which is a type of analysis I did when thinking about my own site, and found useful when thinking about factors influencing a situation where I knew very little such as the legal or physical factors around an offer for a building plot, but I have not done a grid before. The difficult thing is to create a list of factors that may or may not be relevant. My method was to brainstorm a list of potential risk factors (eg potential sewer or mineshaft no one has told me about), then categorise on the chart, then prioritise and identify what I could do to manage the risk - even if it was nothing. Hopefully it is useful for someone out there. The grid and download links are below. Ferdinand Cheney Chart Known-Unknowns-v1.pdf Known-Unknowns-Blank-v1.pdf

Welcome to the forum.

A short video about what can be done to make it interesting, and how you can make it for you - in this case by one of my favourite architects who decided to sleep in the lounge in the house they built in the 1960s (and they are still doing it). A good term is "complexly small".

You are most welcome, Jilly. Where is it roughly? And is your PP Outline or Detailed? You may be at a later stage already, but I'll say this now to be sure - park all those people telling you this, that or t'other yesterday, and take your time with a bottle of what cures you. You have more time than money; so use your time well and get more bang for your buck by taking the time you need before you start spending the money. The best way to save money is to avoid spending it on the wrong things by deciding well first. The first thing you need to do is decide what you need and want (Must Have - can't live without / Would Like / Would be nice if; ie MH / WL / WIBNI). Turn it into a 2-3 page spec, then a one page summary. Then get feedback on that - from your own sources and by posting it here. Then, and only then, get into all the implementation and choosing of how to do it on your site. (Unless there is an overriding constraint of some sort to be addressed now). > ground source heat pumps, reed bed sewage system, water bore, passive haus These days the first 2 of those can be done by other means far more reasonably nearly all the time, the water bore depends on off mains or on mains, and the passive haus can be as-near-as-dammit done without spending more money than a conventional route - but park all that as well. That is implementation methods and that comes after your initial needs-specification. You will perhaps want to consider if it needs to be non-hippy-compatible for the future, what is it worth and eg "do I need a bath as well as a shower" - but that can be worked-out later. It sounds as though you might enjoy a "design for living" book called "A Pattern Language", and have the oomph to follow through on it as far as it applies to houses. I was introduced to that by one of my dad's last architectural customers, who was an interesting lady retiring back from Africa having lived for years in huts she built herself - and was considering restoring a derelict windmill. Have a look here: http://www.patternlanguage.com/index.html Best of luck Ferdinand

Dunno. Before long the Worm Man may be a statutory consultee demanding one run be subterranean to provide a non-frozen winter sanctuary for the Lumbicinae. F

Perhaps. But there are umpteen options, all balancing risk vs reward, and different lenses that potential buyers look through. eg Consider a value without PP for this site - £X. Once it has full PP the value is Y. In which case the original owner can: 1 - Invest say £5k in PP, increase the value by £A to £X+A, and gives them £A-5k in extra money. 2 - Assign a higher value for the potential, which gives them £X+B. Where £B is the subject of estimates and the price of a willing buyer. If Fred and Fiona the Self-Building family come along they may be running out of sprog-space so will pay more than Bob than Batchelor or Sheila the Speculator. But Fred and Fiona or Bob pay no CiL and get their VAT back on the build, and Sheila may have an extra 3% Stamp Duty to pay (OK - may not apply to a plot, but makes the point), which may mean that Sheila's offer is forced by the tax treatment to be £25k lower than if there were a different playing field. 3 - Impose an Overage Agreement, which may give them a potential uplift £C in the future, depending, but may also drive people away. 4 - Take a middle route eg Outline PP. Then that increased value goes through the lens to Price, P, and then of Personal Opinions (eg it may save Fiona a 90 minute commute and a second car, so may save £5k a year, which annualises up to £25k or £50k on the price, depending on the current return that Fiona can obtain on £25k used elsewhere, and how much time she wants to spend with her horse and/or her family). Who knows, Owen the Owner may have had some legover with 25 years ago and want to help his illegitimate child for the future, and so be inclined towards selling to Fanny-Mae his Former-Mistress at a lower price. But then the Buyer may only get PP for something smaller than they want, which may mean having paralysed themselves with analysis, they have a financial bloodbath anyway, and end up hiding behind excuses such as "I got my dream forever home" or "it was worth it to get exactly what I wanted". Or perhaps those are features, not bugs ? . Or they may read a self-build website and save £50k on build costs because they build it differently. And that is before the art of the deal and the knowledge of the Planning System or Local Politics, and that Harry the Hoary Old Git thinks he can get four houses on there at Appeal, or if he sells to a housing association and gets local opinion on his side. but OTOH the limitations of Part Q will affect all of those. Favourite quote: Which train are you on? But then some people are travelling on the High Road or the Low Road, not the train. You takes your choice, after working out what you can / can't control, taking advice on what you may be able to do, influenced by your own circs, and then makes your offer depending on everything else, and pays your money if you win. I try to envisage it in terms of money vs risk, in the circumstances, and then wait until I feel I know enough to make a decision. But I really wish you success. Apologies for my early morning maunderings. Ferdinand

Worthwhile points, but there is the intention of Parliament, what the law as drafted says, what the Courts interpret the law as saying, things in the law that do not reflect the interpretation, and our own opinions. What we all think and do which can be different for each of us. Also, the circumstances where I might make a decision for reasons of what I regard as principle may be different from yours; specific examples are easy to construct or to find in the wild. And all the time people attempt to change the law to reflect their personal opinions or damage other for what in their opinion is the greater good. Over a long period (eg a generation) one hopes that the law reflects some sort of average of what society considers acceptable. In the end I (and you) have to live with the decisions we make - and I may make the different decision in similar circumstances, depending eg if something threatens my business viability or I currently have capacity to take a hit and emerge still standing. I tend to be quite skeptical of planning systems because there is very wide interpretation, and I know damned well that they make decisions on a whim of a local politician, or someone who does (or does) not want something new round the corner, and used their personal position to effect or prevent change. I know that my family smallholding was taken out of the local plan as housing land on the basis of a flawed (in this case, a stupidly superficial evaluation) decision after about 7 years, during the final stage of the Shlaa process - so we took the decision to do a Planning App then rather than wait until 2030. When we got to committee some Councillors were woefully ignorant. But I do not know of a better system. Agree that both points matter. But there is a reason why little old ladies rule the world ? . F

Yes, but if the agreement has holes in it, they may as well be pursuing St George's Dragon on a shetland pony with a knitting needle. Both sides should have good enough advice in such circumstances that they both know which party is the Emperor With No Clothes. If they created a duff agreement, more fool them. The purchaser is not responsible for the vendor's cockups. If there had been deception by the vendor, then my attitude would be different, but Overage Agreements are a Big Boy's Game and those who play it should know the score. We had one of these that was really quite onerous ... it was 20 years in duration, and half of the uplift in value would have been due on receipt of planning permission. It was on a super wide rural bungalow on a square half acre plot that the family had to buy to protect us from the restaurant / nightclub the other side buying to develop into something that would have been up against our house. I can't remember whether the uplift was on the value of the bungalow-with-planning-permission or using a valuation of the final value of the project. We identified 2 options which could have avoided the overage within the period - one was to do permitted development, and the other was to do a small Planning Application to trigger the clause (eg PP for a detached garage), then the more valuable PP for the housing estate (say) some years later after the agreement had been dealt with. The latter was based on the thought that the agreement as worded was probably a one-shot thing. At that point we would have had to rely on our legal advice to face the other party down should they come after us. In the event we sold after about 12 years, and the purchasers converted the integral garage and roofspace into a self-contained annexe-unit, and also extended within Permitted Development. We probably got some benefit on the value from demonstrating that there were viable options to avoid the potential overage charges. As has been said, practically you need quality legal advice, a thinking cap, and a willingness to gird your loins. Ethical considerations are a matter for your conscience. We felt our agreement was rather abusive and imposed at the last minute by an every-pound-of-flesh seeking family member in the family who sold it to us, so did not feel guilty. Ferdinand

You also need to know where you are wrt pre-start Planning Conditions. You probably do not want to get tangled up in "you have not met your pre-start conditions so you can't have started!" debates. I would ask the Planners. F

We are actually commercial, though we do get some sponsorship for athletes from various companies, and we are increasingly a venue for competition or trials and courses, and we do already have a community support programme - eg we are currently fundraising for a defibrillator to be in the gym and available for surrounding businesses etc. The real source of the challenge is that we had to jump up to a bigger scale of unit due to suitable smaller units being horribly thin on the ground in our area. Cheers for all the comments everyone. F

Back to topic I will be recommending a bit of secondhand Tekplas currently on ebay plus probably a small number of new panels, for mainly future expandability reasons.

It's a startup gymnasium that has just moved to a new place, and cashflow is being watched *very* carefully for the next few months, as the Council have come back 6 months after being asked and said that the rateable value is a little higher than the top of the discounted value band, having upped it quite significantly, and 'by the way we need all the business rates paid by March', and 'no we won't negotiate'. The upshot is we are paying 12 months rates in 6 months. We were geared up for a rates bill, but were hoping to avoid full whack. F

Tekplas sell into roadworks hole protection as well. So you can dig a hole to *really* really keep the little darlings inside with a fence around the top to make sure, and put the appropriate warning signs on too to stop the Child Protection Officer falling in. F

Kudos to @MikeR. I was very skeptical as to whether it could move forward, but the man gets a pat on the back for making that progress. F

Thanks for the replies. I may have the age range slightly too high ... we are perhaps talking about toddlers-toddlers+. I did query the size, and was firmly told that 6x6 or 8x8 would be suitable. I also quizzed the people at the Sure Start setup where I help setup the hall once a week, and they said that a small area should be fine. @Onoff, I quite like Tekplas - especially that the system is useable without drilling the floor, and can also be used as room dividers, exhibition fences, Christmas Tree enclosures etc, and that it can be bought now in a minimal form and expanded later. Flexible is good. An 8x8 with gate setup in white @750mm tall would be around £300 new. The easy way to fix such a system if it turns out to be too movable would perhaps simply be a screwed down square of battens outside the fence, rather than another 300 ukp on post stabilisers. Now what I need is a nursery to go bust locally... Ferdinand

I need to create an approx. 6'x6' or 8'x8' play area in a club environment for small children to be contained for play whilst their parents do their activities. The age range will perhaps be up to 5. I am happy to install it semi-permanently (ie screwed down) or robust using a difficult-to-move version which is not screwed down. Current thinking is towards Picket Fence panels and posts in screwed down post sockets, with a gate - but on that I am a little concerned about splinters etc. Does anyone have any experience or good ideas / suggestions? Or even something suitable to give away or sell ?. Thanks Ferdinand

Welcome. Can work as long as you think in an integrated way before you actually build it. Otherwise you need deep pockets and a willingness to empty them. Ferdinand

Remember that mixed use is usually unmortgageable. F

@Ed_MKMy advice. You may already have decided on 1 and 2. 1 - Take a look at whether you need quite that many, and whether you actually need recessed - I have about 70 in the house, and I consider them an inherited PITA. That is another 70 points on your wiring bill. 2 - Also look at LED panels, which a number here have found as good or better. 3 - Be aware of the width of the light cone ie the angle of the spangle. 4 - Recently I have been using LAP products from Screwfix for GU10s, which have been satisfactory. Have been about £2-3 each. Here are some dimmable 5W ones that may be OK and are available at £20 for 10. https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-gu10-led-light-bulb-345lm-5w-10-pack/1402v 5 - Do not buy *too* many spares. With 72 you may only need to replace 1 or 2 a year early-on. 6 - If you do recessed, make sure your holes are deep enough. Some of mine aren't and some of the bulbs do not fit in some of the holes. Ferdinand

Have you worked out the Muckaway savings if you fill it in? At (guestimating - not my thing but @recoveringacademic will have it in SPONS) say £5-10 per cube to have it taken away filling that pool in with your scrapings could save ~£1500 (at say a conservative 1-1.5m by 6m x 12m = 70 cube to 100 cube), which at the least would pay partly towards your bridge over the top if you need one. Ferdinand

Important Point Why is the whole length of the kerb alongside your building already a drop kerb? Have a little dig ... it may be that your deeds show a reason why that may be so. It could be eg that whatever was there before the bungalow used it that way, in which case you already have the right of access, or that the original plan for the estate included a potential off street parking area in the PP. Even if you do not bottom it out, you can still argue that "it is already a drop kerb since 196x, and we have that access already". That could be difficult to enforce on, so you may just be left alone as long as you do not eg cause accidents at the junction or get a busybody taking it up. In the meantime, do not admit in a binding form that it is *not* a drop-kerb. Your query was just a question about a possible scenario. We had an end terrace site in the family where the deeds showed street access along the whole garden length, and there was a drop kerb, which meant that there could be no future access issues when someone considered building on it. There was a delightful sequel where the Council agreed to paint out the double yellows which prevented parking across the "access", and that the new owner stuck a couple of fake doors on the wall to look like a real access to prevent other people parking; that was the tactical way to create new parking rather than a full Traffic Order process. Someone knew the system, I think.

Was was it Deep Thought said of "The Question"? Tricky! I think that could be in practice overturnable, since rational planning allows for equally good solutions reached by different methods, but it could be a battle not worth fighting. Ultimately National Planning Policy is still rational and consistent. That argument could perhaps be won if there is insufficient space to leave site in a forward gear, and providing an in-out driveway (which is unfortunately not what you want as it still needs lots of extra drive), then arguing that it gives safety. Is it possible to argue accessibility? On your options, I think the Council have various ripostes available eg enforce + chargeback, but I agree they may not push it. If you have done no changes - and it is true that the kerb is low - then JFDI and see what happens. If you propose blocking the existing, that could fall foul of them requiring a permanent block (cf easily dismountable disabled access ramps being frowned on in Scotland to try and prevent them being taken away later), or if the new provides less off-street parking. One option you have not mentioned is two tracks of paving from the existing, or using a gridded setup similarly. May be surprisingly cheap. As for how to proceed, I would consider: 1 - Leave the driveway out of your Planning App and get that approved (including the outline new kitchen as I argued above). 2 - JFDI on using the bit on the away-from-the-corner side of the front door. Once your lawn has been trashed by building the extension, consider making what you put there eventually to be dual purpose (perhaps after sign-off ?. 3 - If you need to do a change later, you could apply for a variation to the PP. That leaves the driveway issue separate and encapsulated - as I described here. That means you can proceed with the substantive without it getting delayed due to wrangling about the driveway. 4 - Document your use for future proof of "lawful use" purposes. Ferdinand

Heh. Ordered it yesterday. But there is a five year guarantee.

Weclome. This is how laid back you need to be in your head as a basic attitude - stress management combined with hard work when necessary. My 3 comments would be: 1 - Front load your time budget; back load your money budget. ie Think before anything. The other way round is expensive. 2 - There is always a risk-reward tradeoff eg buy a plot with no pp or outline pp may be appropriately cheaper, but where do you sit on the spectrum? 3 - There is also always a time - money - cost tradeoff. Where do you sit on *that* spectrum? IMO if you feel comfortable with your answers, to 2 and 3, and understand why you are where you are, you are well-placed. Ferdinand

Can anyone comment if these are any good? £34.99 is tempting. My Wilko stick-on battery doorbell just ran out of battery... I see there is also a No No! if any BHers need a shave.