Tom

Sigh.... So, the slow motion car crash of our glazing seems to finally be coming to some sort of climax. Firstly, Internorm windows and doors supply and fit by local (large) firm. Started badly as they fitted into the Nudura opening without any of the recommended Illbruck tape/trays, just a bead of silicone. Cue them having to take them all out and redo. Since then the two doors with large sidelights have continued to leak - firstly around the door sash itself, and also also between the frame and the tray (they cut the tray at the back for some reason, then tried to fill the gap with a wodge of silicone). They have been back multiple times to try and readjust the doors - now they are very hard to open/close as everything is so tight, and they still leak. In addition, they didn't like the idea of fitting on to the horizontal Nudura EPS cavity closer, so unilaterally took the decision to remove this and replace with a length of 6x2. This has spent the whole winter getting wet because of the various leaks, and is now looking decidedly green in places. At the time I suggested using compacfoam, but they were adamant they weren't fitting "on to foam, mate". Secondly, the large triple glazed sliders (total 6m and 4m runs meeting at a moving corner). For these we agreed a price with a London-based suppplier at the back end of 2021. We paid a deposit, best part of 6k - they don't take credit cards, of course. Due to all the delays etc we are only now anywhere near getting the site survey and the things fitted and they, I guess reasonably, said they would have to reprice it due to the time elapsed etc. They have now come back and they are 65% (!) more. I just got a revised quote back from the firm they were originally bidding against (but that we didn't go with), same doors etc and only a 24% increase. I just had it out with them on the phone, asking how they can possibly justify a 65% increase. Usual guff about glass and aluminium costs going up - though I pointed out that if the increase was based on this, then it would be over a 100% mark-up on these costs. I said we would have to ask for our deposit back and walk away, and of course they say non-refunable etc. I said they have a moral and likely legal obligation to refund, and that if it went to law I was very confident it would come down in our favour. They have now gone back to their estimator and will get back to me. So, basically, I am feeling absolutely shafted at the moment and thoroughly pissed off. I feel that the door company are blatantly profiteering as we are on the hook with the deposit. (65% FFS!) Has anyone any experience of small claims in these circumstances? Would we be in a good position to claim our deposit back if push came to shove? Also, the Internorm doors. I have tried to reach the installation manager multiple times over the last few days and he isn't picking up and when I leave messages at the office he isn't returning the calls. At what stage can I tell them I will get another firm to rectify and present them with the bill? I kind of want the units to come out, compac foam (or at the least concrete) to replace the soggy timber, and eveything back in as it should. On top of all that, my beard seems to be going grey with all this stress. Gaaaghh!

..and also if you do get full planning for knock down and rebuild it will often be granted with normal PD rights removed.

Yes, you have to buy direct from Armatherm it seems - and there was a minimum order of £100. I bought 2x foot square 20mm thick pieces and some washers which came to £100. Email them with what you need, they came back quickly with a quote IIRC.

As Mr Punter says, you need a thermal break material specifically designed for point loads. We've used Armatherm between a (warm) steel and cold pad - but it isn't cheap.

Have a look here Jamie: https://www.panelsandprofiles.co.uk/ Think we'll probably go with these guys for the folded gutter as well as the profiled panels for roof/cladding.

^^^^this If you haven't already, investigate whether your local planners would allow you to knock down the shed and rebuild from scratch. Some do and some don't it seems. Would make everything cheaper, simpler and possibly better.

Aaaghh! There's a total of about 60 linear meters to do! I'm thinking that where the membrane comes up the end of the composite panel I could just chase it in - a cut along here with a circular saw and tick the membrane in?

The composite panels sit on steel rafters and Z-purlins We're too far down the road with the hidden gutter to turn back now! My drawing does look complicated, but it looks a bit simpler in real life... I can easily lower the front lip of the gutter to encourage any overflow out the front - and likewise the "tail" going up the roof is a good 200mm.

Sorry @DC5, only just saw your reply. The Alutrix looks like it might do the trick, but is considerably more expensive than a simple membrane and tin of contact adhesive and I'm not sure if it would be overkill. The wall/roof junction is a bit of a pain to detail right, not least as we are going to fit a hidden gutter, the build-up goes something like this: 1. Gap between composite roof panels and top of nudura walls filled in with PIR, the membrane in question then bonded over this to make as weather tight as possible. 2. The composite roof panels then have battens fixed to them, the folded gutter profile fixed to the ends of these, a counter batten over the top and then corrugated steel roofing sheet to finish. 3. Finally, batten - which also supports the outer edge of the gutter, counter batten and vertical timber cladding to the wall. Simple, eh? The membrane bonded to the PIR shouldn't be doing much work, the void should be totally covered by the gutter profile and if the gutter blocks and overflows it should go over the front lip and down the wall (I'll be putting another membrane up the vertical batten and under the front lip of the gutter). Any thoughts?

😟 Any ideas? Are any specific adhesives to be avoided with PIR?

Hello all. Woke up in the small hours pondering this, I plan to cap our nudura walls with PIR laid flat and cut at an angle and want to stick a waterproof roofing membrane (eg https://www.toolstation.com/sark-it-non-breathable-membrane/p26933?utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=googleshoppingfeed&mkwid=_dc&pcrid=&pkw=&pmt=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI15f627vO_QIVd4BQBh0j8gwcEAQYASABEgKkJ_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds) on to this - what adhesive would work on both the foil face and the cut edges of the PIR? Would a solvent-based impact adhesive do the trick?

Hi Mike - welcome to the forum. Sounds like whatever you can do to reduce convection currents would help. Perhaps some rockwool pushed in from the top? This would still be vapour permeable which is always a good idea with old houses. Tom

Thanks Dave, looking at those I think they are going to be a bit big, only got 100mm depth to play with and a distance of a few meters to the stack. Would a shower trap not do the same job?

Trouble is I don't think a smallholding is agricultural either. There is a minimum size, and I don't think 2 acres is it.

It doesn't matter what the land is classified as, it's all down to the buildings themselves - and if they are stables that have been used for horses, then as above I'm pretty sure you can't go down the class Q route. I would forget the structural engineer now too - whether or not they are structurally capable of being converted is kinda moot. Get an opinion from a planning consultant - if they believe that they are worth pursuing then you find a "friendly" structural engineer to write a very carefully worded report to go along with the application. When you have the part Q, apply for full planning to knock down and rebuild (planners often take the Class Q as a fallback position so are then inclined to grant full planning - at least in some areas, search your local planning portal).

While I'm STILL waiting for our roof to be finished, I've been busy thinking how I can make our build more complicated and expensive, and have started to think about the plant room and whether it might be an idea to have a drain in the middle of the floor. The room won't just be for the plant but it's also a boot room etc, so it might be useful to have a drain and would also be useful if any pipes in there sprung a leak. There is already a 110mm stack coming up through the floor that I could T in to, and the screed is yet to go down, so have about 100mm height to play with. Should I forget the idea? Are there proprietry "floor drains" for this sort of thing, or could I just use a wet-room shower trap? Thanks all

If they are stables, and have been used as such, then as far as I'm aware they aren't agricultural so aren't eligible for part Q Happy to be proven wrong though, and agree with Temp that getting the opinion of a planning consultant would be the first step. Different planning departments seem to interpret the rules slightly differently so local knowledge would be key.

Are you not thinking of taped foil-backed insulation boards?

Yep, I'm leaning towards an EPDM liner for the folded profiles. Has any one used these before?

Clean them by sticking your hand in them I guess, same with any other gutter. As for overflowing I suppose you just make sure that they don't!

Cheers Mark. Any experience of gutter liners?

Evening all I am trying to find somewhere that will produce a folded gutter profile - essentially a "P" (on it's front) cross section. I have found a place which will produce whatever profile I need - but only in 3m sections. The longest run I need is just over 18m - so that will be at least five joins between sections. The gutter is going to be hidden behind the cladding and will be above the walls, so ideally I want a continuous section that I will be confident won't leak. Does anyone know if anywhere that can do this? There are firms that will prduce seamless gutter on-site from the back of their vans - but this is only in a ogee profile and will be too small. The largest of the gutters will need to be formed from approx 800mm wide sheets. Any ideas? There are liners for gutters too I believe, would this work? Many thanks

Thanks Mark, I was going to set the width of the windows as per the profile of the roofing sheets - i.e a whole number of corrugations, then both sides of the window would coincide with a downward bend of the sheet (if you know what I mean...) - and only make the opening through the roof structure when the sheets were going up. Any other tips?

Hello all - I'm trying to make a decision on skylights for our build and quite like the look of these: https://roof-maker.co.uk/products/luxlite-pitched-rooflights/ It looks like they don't make a specific flashing for a corrugated steel roof but instead make your own with lead etc. Is there any reason you can see that this wouldn't be possible for a roof covered in 13/3 corruaged roof sheets (eg https://www.cladco.co.uk/13-3-corrugated-0-5-thick-polyester-paint-coated-roof-sheet?utm_source=google_shopping&child_id=647#color=48&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIiqvqsNjl_AIVBWHmCh2CuwLoEAQYAyABEgL9QPD_BwE) ? The chap on the other end of the line was very non-commital and just said "it'll be up to your builder to detail" - but I don't want to spend thousands on these and then leave my builder scratching his head... Thanks everyone

From my experience locally, it seems like the onus would be on them to prove it wasn't. A statement from the previous owner saying it had been used for agriculture wouldn't hurt I guess. I think the only way to know for sure really would be to start the application process and address any issues as they come out of the woodwork. Just make sure you clear everything out now!