ToughButterCup

Its not an illusion. Put a glass of gin, ice and a slice in front of it, and it gets warmer. Same with a cold beer. Gonna try a ready meal in front of it next time Debbie is working late.

This thread is about Credit Unions. Merging it with others threads would tend to confuse.

Lots to get our teeth into here. Thanks F. Ian

Its no secret that we have hit such a rock. And privately I have been told of others. @ProDave makes no secret of the delights of caravan living either. I'm not sure yet how much we'll need, but I soon will know. It will certainly be less than £100k (If it's more she's in trouble). In thinking about P2P lending, it'll be sensible for us all to start small anyway. Thanks for the reference to folk2folk: (here). Makes interesting reading

Hmm. Was that on ebuild? Here? There , J mentions that he was looking for £100k, not that a lender (or group of lenders) needed to have £100k available.

On this thread @NSS makes the point that maybe we are as yet too small a group of people to consider operating this model to help our members. What would the critical membership size be to make it work? Is there a critical mass of money that we'd need to be taken seriously as P2P lenders? @SteamyTea has just posted that he'd need £100K he also asks if anyone has experience of Zopa Could we support a loan of that amount?

A quick read of the UK section shows that the P2P sector is significant. The entry is of interest to me principally because of the References section. There's plenty there for a quiet evening's fireside reading (ooops, sorry PH owners) The article is full of unsubstantiated assertion, so I'm treating it with a good deal of care: respectful skepticism even.

@MikeSharp01 posted an idea that we might in his words '... crack a series of issue...' Here's what he had to say (posted here) edited slightly below. I have and idea for the pot that might crack a myriad of issues. We could set ourselves up as a credit union. These are very simple mutual societies many of which are run by volunteers. They can take deposits and make loans. The deposits are protected by the FSCS up to max (£80k ish) so no risk to deposited monies. Loans can only be short term max 5 years unsecured or 10 years secured on the borrowing members deposits. The max loan to a member is £7500 in excess of that members deposits. We would need to find a pump priming sum to kick start the Capital adequacy rules. It is a regulated activity but can be run by volunteers the main leading group have to be 'fit and proper' and sign up to running the business. We could set up our own membership rules but would have to be limited to people with an assoiation with our goals EG self builders or interested in self building issues - called a 'common bond'. To be a member we could insist on regular deposits. Interest on loans is charged per month and is capped at 3% per month but we could just set the rate to beat the bank for the depositers. Obviously it is a bit more complex than set out above but no more complex or onerous than a limited company. The registration is with FCA rather than the charities commission or companies house. There are annual returns however. (accessed 01/12/2017)

Crowd Funding is a means of raising capital. It's really quite different to P2P lending. @JSHarris provided a neat summary earlier today here As with the entry on P2P (here) I copy and paste an edited version of it below. Crowdfunding is solely a means of raising capital, with no absolute obligation on the recipient to pay anything back at all. It is primarily used to provide investment for start-up companies, where initial investors may receive a reduced price product in return for their investment (assuming the company gets off the ground), and more recently has been adopted as a way of raising non-refundable donations for specific charitable cases (like sending a person to another country for medical treatment not available in the UK). It is not a lending or borrowing scheme in the usual way we would understand such a thing, and anyone who invests in a crowdfunded project has to treat it like any other high-risk investment or donation and not expect to ever get their money back. There are exceptions, but this is generally how crowdfunding works. In terms of self-build and renovation, I can see a place for crowdfunding a start-up company that has come up with a product or service that looks to be beneficial to self-builders. I cannot possibly see how crowdfunding could be used as a substitute for a lending scheme, like a conventional mortgage or loan. (accessed 01/12/2017)

A really succinct summary of what P2P is was provided by @JSHarris, here . For completeness, I've copied and pasted an edited version below. P2P is a means that allows usually small investors to invest money at an agreed rate of return to borrowers that they choose. It's a logical extension of the principle of informally lending a friend some money for a time and then getting it back, with the difference that P2P almost always carries some interest with that borrowing, although often far less than that charged by conventional lenders. P2P also allows groups of investors to amalgamate a number of small investments in a single project, with [...] P2P there is a formal agreement that the investor will get their investment back after a defined period of time, plus an agreed level of interest (usually, there are schemes that operate within Islamic law that get around the issue of interest, as interest is haram in Islam). (accessed 01/12/2017)

Excellent! Where's your local? We'll all be round there begging a free pint tonight. I think you might need the pre-conditions signed off for Planning.... not BC

Try an incognito browser window.....

Ok How about a sub-section of this site entitled..... Funding Self-builds and then these sub-sections - (just a quick stab at them) P2P lending for self builders Current P2P models, examples Infrastructure: operationalising P2P lending P2P : national level issues National Level guidelines for P2P Other research sources General discussion area

Well, I never, look what I found........

Thanks for the summary, J. I wonder what @Stones thinks? He did after all start the thread as 'crowd funding' Like to comment Jason? Ian

Hmmm. At this stage, every way we turn, there are more questions than answers. It would be useful to formulate key questions. Reading the contributions above, how about this for an initial list.... P2P lending OR crowd funding for self builders. Which? Both? Does a P2P lending system for self builders already exist? Infrastructure: trying to avoid reinvention of wheels: how have people operationalised P2P lending? What models for P2P lending and crowd funding exist? Are there any formally recognised associations for each sector? Are there any National Level guidelines for P2P or Crowdfunding? I expect I have missed things off the list. It's not meant to be exhaustive. It already looks exhausting. And it's not as if we haven't got much to do anyway.... I'll ask later today at Lancaster University Management School (make Debbie do some work) whether there are any lecturers or PhD students who are researching the field. Should at least be able to get a good reading list.....

It's the '... more on that later ...' that has me hooked.

I have a strong feeling that there are many of us who have done a bit of research privately but, unlike @jamiehamy, not told anyone else. I think we - that is this discussion group / board - should provide a space for us to 'dump' our research notes. A simple repository of unedited, un-filtered information. I will personally commit to check and summarise that information and publish it here for comment by all. My question is: do you (that means anyone reading this thread - anyone at all) agree that we should provide a work-space for anyone to contribute? The end in mind is clear. We should examine whether or not it is possible for us collectively to provide some sort of crowd funding organisation for self-builders? For my part, I'll have a word with the Forum Management Group and see what the mood is there. Who knows, I might have read this thread wrongly.....

Start somewhere. Anywhere. And keep going. How about talking to reading about groups of people who have done something similar ? How about setting up a section of the site devoted to the research / thinking / discussion process ?

And that would cost? £5000? 100 of us £50 each. @ProDave moves in. Too simple?

How many of us are in this situation? I know of three (including me) : many of us are asset rich, cash poor and risk averse. While I know its unlikely (and may even be unwise) for members to follow Dave's and my example by being up-front about it, I have evidence (PMs , private visits) of a few more of us in similar circumstances. We all need to get our old house sold to fund the current build. But that process appears to be grinding to a halt. Which brings me to @Stones point. This crowdfunding thread is a good place to mull over the issue within the context of self-building. My estate agent mate reports a significant slow-down in sales across the piece in't north west, Morecambe, Lancaster, South Lakes area. With the some highly niche sectors being buoyant. Rentals on the other hand are going strong. And wouldn't many of us love to get to the stage where we could camp with some dignity in our new builds? And to do that with the aid of a small injection of capital would be just the thing. Similarly, when the 'old house' gets sold and we're a bit more cash-rich, wouldn't we be more likely to lend a couple of thousand to self-build projects?

Hello, this is a nice party isn't it? Tell me how do you know the host? Oh, well, we're both meta middlemen. That's nice. Ermmm, sorry to be so ignorant, but I've never met people who called themselves middlemen No, no, we're both meta middlemen. Ahhh, I see. Can I get you another drink? You look like you need one.

Use heavy gauge plastic ties to link the panels: quick snip and the jobs done. Cost far less than the clips. Quick to replace too. What are you going to do when the wild wind blows? Who / what will be endangered by a blown over panel? HERAS feet can be anchored any way you like, and since its windy here, I tie them to my digger or Land Rover or 'moor' them to a tonne bag of sand (or a mixture of all three) when its really blowy and put sand bags on the rest of the feet. Since I suffer from Great Crested Newts I also attach the TAF to the HERAS

I'm happy to recommend the same one as @Nickfromwales. Buy the laser receiver too. The receiver is almost essential when the sun's bright and -to date- I have used it over a distance of 20 meters or so. Used it after @nod's tutoring in establishing a datum level. Even I can use one successfully. Of course, if @nod were to leave his Hilti laser around somewhere, I'd look after it for him.

I suspect that we're not long behind you, Dave. I'm not relishing looking at Debbie in the eye on the day we have to move out. The worst of it is you (we) can't get off this particular train. We started on the basis of what, at the time, were a sensible set of assumptions. And fundamentals on which those assumptions were made changed. Its that same change process which offers hope for the future. It wouldn't take much of a change to make the outlook a good deal more positive. And then there's luck. I dunno about you, but I still feel very lucky to be able to have started a build. Maybe a little more is not too much to hope for. Its not as if we are trying to build an empire. Not to have started would have been forever to regret not trying. To live diminished by demonstrable lack of guts. And that's not for us.