Nickfromwales

My thoughts exactly. It becomes quite dependant on running at an optimal flow temp and an UFH system that doesn't have actuators / stats per room etc.

Or just link the output from the pump to a cold mains accumulator vessel, and do away with the break tank altogether.

Not if we can help it lol. You've just made me notice that the copper pipe atop is not protected / taped to stop corrosion. Why the feck has that been put there instead of on the wall?!!? Needs moving!!! The wheels are starting to fall off here.

Nope. That would be if it were a vented thermal store This would be heated via a coil, so the brine and DHW would never meet. No T&PRV on an open vented cylinder. This is a bone of contention, and a question I have asked of some cylinder manufacturers. I've not seen a reason why the factory fitted T&PRV could not be unscrewed and then relocated to the highest point of the discharging pipework run. Obviously the T part of T&PRV would be ineffective at that point, but why cant we have a capillary wire, like a fire valve of an oil boiler type, to allow remote relocation? Answer is; too many risks associated with human error eg bad / lazy fitters I expect.

Amen, reverend . Would be the best money spent. UFH gets done so badly, go often, it's genuinely hard to believe.

@AmKal, can we also get some close up pics of the gas pipe rising behind the UFH manifold, please?

You need to ask the cylinder manufacturers to be honest. Unless you show us a link to a cylinder you're considering using, were unable to help ( or offer meaningful replies ). You'd then also need to check this with the ASHP manufacturer before getting any traction.

These needed to be ducts, and then would have had continuous lengths of push-fit pipe pulled through retrospectively to convey the water services to / from. You cannot bury potable water joints in the screed.

It won't suffice, just lazy work where they've grabbed the recessed plastic boxes and surface mounted them. The cable entry points with a "fast-fix" box are too big, so there will be gaps around the cables where they enter / exit ( unless these have been carefully drilled out to accept each cable snugly. I'll not hold my breath........) OK, lets begin. We'll start with the cold mains. Assuming that is what the pipe is, where the black pipe changes to white and then goes to the stopcock? The pipe should be certified MDPE pipe ( WRAS approved for forming part of the "rising cold main" ) and should be buried under the house and NOT run through the screed. This is a contravention of building / water regs to have it this way with joints buried in the screed layer. Regs state that these joints should all have access / inspection chambers if they form part of the cold mains ( in a nutshell ). To become compliant, in light of where you are right now, the black pipe would need to rise immediately into a boxing in / wall with an access panel to a compliant stopcock, non-return valve ( NRV ) and a drain off cock ( DoC ). That is the minimum requirement for terminating a "rising cold main". Then you can carry that onwards in regular pipework ( push-fit or copper ) as it's no longer the rising cold mains. From the pavement to the stopcock must be MDPE pipe all the way. To offer up some pragmatism, the black pipe 'could' retain the joint, but only if it is under the insulation and subfloor ( subterranean ) continuing then via MDPE pipe, with joints permitted if some become necessary, and then the stopcock can stay where it is currently. The MDPE pipe would need to be visible as it rises out of the floor / screed. The cold main ABSOLUTELY CANNOT STAY AS IT IS eg in the heated screed layer, this is very basic standards of 'good practice', but would also be a potential ( major ) health risk from legionella. This would create a genuine health risk for you and your family if left as is. If your building control officer ( BCO ) doesn't agree, ask for them to be replaced with another representative from their office, or demand a second opinion, and ask for it in writing. QUOTE:- Can you get Legionella from mains water? Given that Legionella occurs naturally in a wide variety of water sources, and proliferates at temperatures between 20°C and 50°C, remaining vigilant about the storage and movement of water in a manmade plumbing system will help to mitigate the inherent risk presented by warm mains water.Legionella control: What to do when mains water gets warm Type the blue text into google and read up for yourself. The stopcock as fitted is non-compliant. The rising cold main needs to comprise of, in this exact order, a) a certified stopcock, b) a double check NRV ( NOT a single check one they had close to hand!! ( you can tell these apart as the double check will have a 8mm or so sized brass nut at the mid section eg so you can service it )), and then a glanded DoC for draining down of the entire house ( potable side ) plumbing system. That's the cold mains dealt with. Sadly, I think you won't avoid lifting the UFH pipes / insulation / membrane etc to be able to facilitate this correction. Ultimately not your problem as the builder should be able to do this correctly in his / her sleep ( just seamlessly slipping in a bit of PC for good measure there ). The plumber should have picked up on this also, particularly if they are GSR'd and G3 certified...... ( ask them to show you evidence that their G3 is still in date ( as GSR'd fitters get a G3 when they qualify, but often it's left to expire )). Now to the cylinder discharge ( D1 / D2 ) and "blow-off" ( PRV ) from the boiler, eg the bits I circled in red. If you follow the path from the cylinder overflow / discharge ( T&PRV ) , and also the path from the control group ( CG ), which is the big brass 4 way valve in front of the boiler that the cold mains stopcock rises up to, and see which path the escaping water would have to follow to get out of the 15mm pipe and down to the grey plastic tundish. You'll notice the water would need to go uphill, where the pipe dog-legs at the 2x 90o bends, which is a categoric no-no. Google the cylinder manufacturers installation guide and see this for yourself. The cylinder would have come with this instruction clearly stated ( with visuals ) in the service and G3 registration and benchmark ( installation guide ) booklet. There can be no standing water left in this D1 pipework, and any water in it ( after a discharge event ) is not allowed to remain inside, ergo it absolutely MUST be continuously "falling" to the tundish. The pipe sizes need to be up-sized, eg when you combine more than one 15mm discharge pipe to another ( tee'ing together ), eg so the T pieces used should have been 22mm and the pipe to the tundish should have been 22mm connecting to a 22mm inlet x 28mm or 32mm outlet tundish. Completely unfit as it is, sorry. If I was doing this job I would, a) have the 15mm boiler PRV pipework completely separate, falling to it's own tundish / trap. Then the 15mm CG discharge and the 15mm cylinder T&PRV would combine into one 22mm pipe ( so each of the 15mm pipes go into a 22mm tee NOT a 15mm tee, and then on to their own independent waterless tundish / trap. Here it the link for these combination tundish / traps - LINK - which do not need water to seal them, eg so no drafts / stench comes back through them. The outputs from each of these 2x tundish / traps get teed together and connected via 32mm or 40mm waste pipe, which then goes into a suitable 110mm x ( 32mm or 40mm ) adaptor and into the grey foul water pipe below. The gas pipe can stay behind the UFH manifold AFAIK. @PeterW you just being cranky because of all the other shite here, LOL? The builders shoulder-shrug about insulating and fixing the pipework in unheated envelopes is a piss-take. The cost of gas lost to the wasted heat isn't coming out of his pocket, plus, if the pipes freeze and burst, it won't be his house that gets wrecked!! Tell him, no insulation, no final payment. Also tell him that you want to see pictures of these areas when done, BEFORE he closes them off and you have to take his word for it, or you want ( ideally ) to see these things done for yourself. Would be best to get your BCO to reinforce, as I suspect you'll need a strategic visit where you go through these concerns with them FIRST, and then the two of you approach the builder with the summary. Prob best to halt work until this has been facilitated. Please post one more pic of the CG as I can't see that in detail. I would like to be sure that the balanced cold output / feeds have been observed / preserved and that it's been installed correctly. It's the bit of kit directly in front of the boiler. Also, is the boiler cover OK to come off with that fitted there? Sorry to piss on your chips, but better to know before the screed goes down . I'd very much like to hear you asked for the insulation to be sorted / fixed / taped better, and the membrane to have been replaced before the pour. Is this to be a liquid or dry screed? Best to get the above mess sorted first eh?

If you can sacrifice some more headroom, go to 150mm of PIR as the better you invest in the Insulaton now, the cheaper this will be to run forever. Go regular PIR for the 100mm base layer, and 50mm phenolic for the top layer ( if possible ).

Topic moved.

It’s a shame there are stupid / careless mistakes. Largely looks like a decent bit of plumbing. Is this a young chap? The clips for the pipework should all have had spacers behind them to create a gap between the back of the pipe snd the wall, eg so a 13mm wall ( thick ) insulation could be put over all of this heating / primary pipework. A bit more care and effort and attention to detail and this chap would be a decent installer. “So near, yet so far away”

Clipped = mechanically fixed eg with banding or a pipe clip(s). Insulated. Grey insulation is fine, but any heating services need to have this locally to the boiler. Also if the pipework then travels through any unheated voids / attics / eaves etc. The pipework circled is an absolute and catatonic failure. Needs to all be redone. Out atm, so I’ll hit this with chapter and verse later today 👍. Cold main also can’t be in the screed ( thus heated sporadically ) and you can’t have any joints below floor level with it either. Is that cold feed temporary? Any of this temporary?

Yup. Cant see any bolt heads, so doubt I’d it’s a twin setup with the cavity observed / preserved or you’d see bolt / nut heads from the dowels and spacer rods. Looks like an SE has been involved though, as there’s a bolted T intersection. No builder would devise that afaic.

Hi 👋. Can you post a couple of pics of the cylinder pipework please? Just want to see how the pressure relief / overflow ( D1 & D2 ) / location of tundish are arranged. Can’t really see from those pics.

Ok. Boiler plumbing looks neat and methodical. Rest looks like 1st year apprentice did it when pissed. What gives? Who did what here? Well spotted on pad stones, should at least have had 2 courses of engineering brick stitched in instead of pads!? Building control?? What is all the 22mm(?) pipework above? If heating it should all be insulated, and clipped at least where it’s restring against the block work and steel beam. One can only assume it’s not the finished article. If the insulation boards aren’t fixed down then screening may hold them in place, but if it’s a dry screed and not a liquid. There’s no way in hell I’d pour a liquid screed over that. Theres a list of faux pas here, needs a few things sorted before proceeding / covering over. Did the builders plumber 1st fix and then a gas fitter did boiler / cylinder? Looks like two completely different jobs tbh.

His wife said I wouldn't feel a thing.

Also, you can buy a 10mm copper pipe bender, and this will allow you to do away with the bends. It's an absolute doddle to use too, you'll pick it up in no time at all. https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/amtech-3in1-pipe-bender-553991790?gclid=CjwKCAiAlp2fBhBPEiwA2Q10D9i5um8j5E9TqrmcWgIarsbkqiM9B_qHmywt3TTJkgn2Jj8a9FAR0xoCxHkQAvD_BwE Just practice on a couple of bits, and ask questions here for tips on using it.

You can also get 10mm radiator valves. I assume you know this?

Do not use compression on the 10mm ( or any other size ) pushfit pipe, please! Use pushfit ( Hep2o ) with copper and you'll be 100 times better off. If you use 15mm radiator valves you can get 15x10mm pushfit connectors :- https://www.monsterplumb.co.uk/pushfit-chrome-elbow-10mm-15mm-stem-radiator-valve-pipe-heating?gclid=CjwKCAiAlp2fBhBPEiwA2Q10DzsSfFBBScywMdc98a47iV3CqwoxWnFENIEt_ZvaBI69IiKogpAeHBoCn7YQAvD_BwE Would these help?

Odd that this thread should pop up, as I need to sort oak cills for installation in my clients build in the next couple of months. @Patrick chunky is good Looks really nice. Yup. One-stop shopping here !

Current clients have done the same thing, in various guises, and looks really smart. They got varnished this week and the grain looks really different, almost 3D when the sun shines across it, with huge depth to the grain. A huge amount of time / labour, and materials costs I looked into for another job were eye-watering, but what the heart wants, it gets . Some may only get to self-build once, so things like this separate their build from the one down the road by a mile IMHO.

Plus, you can't afford me after buying all these expensive batteries.

The "kind" of "benefits" at your house would make me choose walking mate!! 🤣

It'll be of greater interest to those of a retired / work-from-home discipline. And even more so to the Octopus Agile hawks. Will come into it's own for a 2 EV house.