Roger440

But who is going to come up with a process thats easy to follow and applies across the board? It will just be left to the individuals to figure it out. Sure, actually fitting it to an existing system isnt complicated, but specifying it correctly is. Unless you want to nationalise HP fitting? Edited to add, maybe the "local plumbers" are the fitting force, but someone else specifies? Im not sure energy usage, even if its available is that helpful. i know people who run there homes at 16/17c and a quite happy with that. i like 20/21. The difference in gas consumption though is significant. It cant be beyond the wit of man to do a "test" to measure actual heat loss if we know outside temp, inside temp and energy use in a defined period. But again, who will devise such a thing. Whose interest is it in. Answer again is nobodies that could actually do it.

Of course

Good summary. Introducing a qualification will limit an already contrained supply of people. Its also worth noting, though you say the answer is "local plumbers", many, if not most of these wil not be able to "step up" to the complexities of the new tech. Qualifications or otherwise A common problem in lots of industries. The tech moves on, like cars (my field) but the people dont. Cant. You need a smarter grade of people. But those people are simply not going to work in a cold draughty workshop. Why would they? Hence we arrive where we are. Lots of cars not getting fixed. Its going to get much worse. Sadly, ive long concluded that that government live in a parallel universe. Its all fine and good having great ideas, but if they cant be delivered, its all rather pointkess. Neither insulating homes or installing heat pumps can happen quickly. A 30 year horizon is probably realistic, 2035 or 2030 (if you are starmer) is pie in the sky. By 2030 means 77000 installs a week, starting now. We did 42000 last YEAR. The ZEV vehicle proposals will go the same way. The end result of these is the existing vehicle fleet will remain in service for much much longer, simply through necessity. Especially the light commercial fleet. The exact opposite of the intention.

An interesting thread. Id agree with much that Jamespa has said. There will be little progress in the rate on installation at current prices, subsidy or not. The progress rate talked about here is a very long way short of the targets being set. So its actually more like 2.5 million installs a year required. As James says, not going to happen due to current prices, the work involved to extensive and disruptive, and the man power to do it doesnt exist. A pull the boiler out and in stal a HP sounds like a sensible way to takcle the above. But as already noted, whose interest is it in to do £4k installs? Apart from the customer, nobody, is the answer. At the current bumbers, some people are getting wealthy quite quickly, at the taxpayers expense. Why would those on the gravy train wish to become all competative? As things stand nobody gains from disrupting the staus quo. None of the companies concerned, nor the government at the level it matters are remotely interested in if fossil fuel burning is reduced. This is just an excellent opportunity to make cash. Fast. My expectations of any kind of breakthrough anytime soon are low. I see also the talk about insulating old homes as low hanging fruit. This is well wide of the mark. Ok, double glazing and loft insulation, sure, but id hazard a guess, most have that already. The kind of level of insulation required is massively expensive, intrusive and means moving out. Solid wall properties in particular are difficult. People say EWI. Thats likely to be a disaster. Most of these buildings will have damp walls that need/are dried by air. Wrap it up in insulation, where does this moisture go? Straight inside is the answer. Insulating these older properties is a nightmare in most cases, and will also involve undoing already completed inappropiate works and materials. It makes £20k heat pumps installs look like a walk in the park. As above, who will design the solutions, who will do the work? There is not the understanding or skills to do this at scale. Simply not going to happen. If it does, it will be a shitshow of cock ups. Ive got an older property, 1850's stone cottage with a 70's extension at the back. Whilst sound, its a thermal catastophe. To do this propely will need it stripped back to bare stone, insulat walls with wool board or similar, but not too much otherwise walls will get to cold putting the dewpoint inside the wall. To insulate the slopy bits of celing needs the tiles, battens and roof felt off. Its got dormers too. Even bigger nightmare as there simply isnt room for decent levels on insulation, unless enlarged. Floor is solid concrete on mud. So all that needs to come out. 70;s bit could be cavity insulation/EPS beads. If that could get done, and done well for under £40k id be impressed. Plus that £20k heat pump install on top. And ill have to live somewhere else while its done. This simply isnt realistic. Anyone who thinks it is is nuts. This isnt going to happen at scale. So Jamespa is right, it needs a simple, effective retrofit solution. But theres no motivation for anyone to do it. And all that before we get onto the human factors already discussed. Educate the public on new heating systems? Forget it it. We are talking about people who let a kid die in a mouldy house because no one could work out it needed ventlation to get humidity under control. Anyone who thinks the public can be educated on this subject is more nuts than those above who think insulating old properties at scale is doable.

High fuel prices will just make everyone poorer. Thats it. If you cant afford the capital cost of an EV, heat pump, insulation etc, doesnt make any difference what the pay back is. You will just be poorer People proposing that as a solution, are, invariably, in a much more comfortable position than those who will suffer the most. And thats before you even consider how you would do all the things required at scale. To meet Starmers objective of no fossil fuel burning in domestic dwellings by 2030, we need to install 77000 heat pumps. a week. From now until 2030. Not going to happen. Ever. Its impossible. Anyone that thinks it is, is, frankly, a moron. Increasing the fuel price, wont make 77k installs a week happen, no matter how high the price. Which returns us to my first sentance.

There zero possibility that public transport will become good in this country. The structure of it, and its control by D(a)FT simply ensures it cant. Realistically, thats not going to change. Busy scrapping trains wholsale at the moment as a result, partly, of a drive to cut operator costs. This is being lead by D(a)FT. In the unlikely event of someone making a decision to get more passengers on the network, there wont be enough trains. Because we are scrapping them. Scrapping stuff we only just spent bucktloads of cash making compliant 3 years ago! And anything government dont want to get involved in, they just make it the councils problem. Can you imgaine a council trying to manage the installation of on street chargers at scale? The same organisation that cant fill in a pothole in less than 18 months!!! Never going to happen, Anyway, public transport is of no use to the vast majority of people as it doesnt go from where they are to where they want to go. Public transport is not an answer, just a small part of the answer.

Thats great. Apart from the fact your next PM is going to phase out gas powered electricity generation (except for 0.7% back up) by 2030. So generation will be significantly down for significant periods from your calculations. I'll be sticking to my fossil fuel powered car. I dont need to be part of what is probably going to be the single biggest government cock up in recent history. My diesel genset is at the ready.

I think there is zero possibility of that. Whatever comes next will be worse from a use perspective. Sadly, to compound that, governments are, effectively mandating solutions, rather than specifying desired outcomes. So we cut of multiple possible forms of development and progress. Because government have a great track record at identifying winners! Restricted travel for the masses is coming.

I cannot think of a single reason not to use such a system! The garage at my old place, the concrete ended up rather less flat than i hoped. My favourite tiler did it (11m x 6) with 2 ft square tiles and a proper levelling system. Not a single lip of any sort anywhere, despite the uneveness underneath. Ive used it myself since. Quite why any tiler perseveres without is beyond me.

I think they take a lot of getting right. Once thats done, it works fine until the SSR can no longer cope. As ive said before, its the systems weakness. When it becomes a problem will vary massively between users. Id probably buy something else if i had my time again. In fact, id fit a septic tank! No power consumption and no noise.

Ill do a video for you.

Mine spills over continuously.

I have a few collegues in Oz. One of them had a rural property with a septic tank or STP. Government type comes round twice a year to test the outfall. Woebetide you if it fails. They are super hot on stuff like that over there. They love reules.

Thats not right. Vortex seem to change design details on every other tank they sell, but how often and for how long does the floating sludge run? Mine does 3 mins every hour. Generally more than enough. I had rhe same issue as you early on. I just twiddled the various adjustments, so both bubblers, SSR and floating sludge settings. The SSR seems mosrt crtiical. I can now tell by the way it comes out of the overspill hole if its right.

Over time all sorts of stuff has occured in the settlement chamber. However, ive found its very quick to recover if everything is adjusted correctly.

Bit late in reply, but, To clear it, just disconnect the pipe to the SSR at the adjustment valve and connect to a water hose. Turn on and leave for a few minuites. You will see some bubbling once its broken through the sludge. SAfter this, i normally wind the SRR to max fir a few hours to try and drag as much as possible out. All that said, the frequency with which you have to do that will steadily increase. Which is the trigger to empty it.

Would be wasted converting to a house. Think of all the cars and other stuff you could get in there. A couple of portacabins inside in the corner will do my living quaters. Oh, hang on, not sure my wife would agree.

I cant help you on the demolition. but id give my right arm and sundry other body parts for that place. Cant believe you would knock it down

Sadly trickle vents is just another regs anomoly/nonsense. As ever, why mandate the solution? Why not mandate the outcome. ie, good quality air indoors and then let smart people figure out different ways of doing it. Mandating MVHR simply means no one will invent something else and we will be stuck with it as a solution forever.

Could have just fitted intakes. How is that different from MVHR?

With a passive system incoming and outgoing are still seperated. If you want to filter the incoming air, filter it. No need for a powered fan to do it.

Thats what i said. But the difference, alledgedly, isnt that big. If i can make it work with passive stack, ill do it . In my case it would be retrofit, nit new build so even more attractive as MHVR in exisiting will be a nightmare.

It doesnt. But you are not consuming energy on an ongoing basis either. Someone posted a link on here a few months ago demonstrating that the difference in cost was not very big at all. No doubt there were biases in the report, but running an MHVR 24/7 isnt free.

Exactly. That said, if we produced wool insulation in the quantity of rockwool, i suspect there wouldnt be much if anything in it. But who is going to take the punt up against the majors with vested interests?

Please post up how you go. As for building regs, they can bugger off. Just not interested. Solves the specialist design requirement! As ever, government mandating a solution rather than an outcome.