Roger440

You can change the regs all you like. But who is going to sign off and test each one? Who doing that would be truly independant? Where would all these people come from. Who will they work for. What penalties will there be on the testers for non compliance? What about all the other aspects, like insulation. Thats multiple times more involved. The reality is, there are no answers to those questions that can realistically be implemented. Likewise, how will this "culture change" happen. Where will the thousands of technically capable people come from? Who will they work for? Who will manage them? In my experience the cost of running a house barely figures on the radar. For 99% of people, when buying a house, theres a choice of one. Its not like buying a car, where you can peruse the performance details of each and say, id like that one please to a salesman whos falling over himself to make the sale. Thats not how house buying works. Houses are in short supply, prices are high, and its very hard to actually get a purchase over the line. A notional lower long term cost just isnt relevant in that context.

Didnt see this when i replied above. Where does this info come from? Is it verifiable. Visquuen, for example list all 3 as seperate products, with differing tech sheets. Whilst you may well be right, i really want to see it from a manufacturer.

Thats a radon barrier. Which, according to what ive found, and the manufacturers tell me, are not the same thing as a vapour barrier. If it is the same thing, no one is admitting it. And ive no intention of finding out by fitting it then having a problem. I suspect the average builder is rather less choosy. Screwfix also list a vapour barrier, but unfortunately, the tech info and testing againt the EN number say its a damp poroof membrane. Indeed, one of the reviews says as much. Needless to say, screwfix have not updated there website, and no doubt they continue to sell the product, and people then fit the wrong product.

I think you need to keep the two things seperate. Whether or not the regs are easy to achieve or need tightening is entirely seperate point. We both know its not rocket science. Id still suggest, however, thats its pointless doing so as we are not building to current regs, or even ones before that. If we were to achieve a resonable degree of compliance with the regs, then, and only then consider tightening the regs. What can possibly be gained from tightening the regs, that almost no one complies with? Indeed, it will have the opposite effect. Compliance will fall further. As it will be even more unfathomable to the average builder. Indeed, as an aside, ive been trying to get some 1200ga vapour barrier. 3 weeks ive been trying, without sucess. With time ticking by, i had to resort to a 7 hour round trip to manchester. An "interesting" coversation with visqueen direct was had whilst trying to track some done. The conclusion from that farce, is that few people are buying or using this stuff. NONE of the major players have any stock to speak of, despite all being "stockists". So just, what exactly are the trade doing? I think i know. Not using any. Even when i spoke to people, i was offered DPM's instead, incorrect tapes, offers of all sorts of other "stuff" that complied with nothing, never mind the EN standard. Apart from visqueen themselves, no one understood why i wanted what i wanted and why didnt i just do what everyone else did. ie, use an unsuitable product. I cant see the current situation in the trade is recoverable. In the OP's case, its a refurb, so ive no idea why you would even involve a BCO unless its being brought back from derelict and contact with them is unavoidable.

Exactly what im saying. He doesnt need to know. Or care. There can be no comeback on him. He is fully protected. Just sign stuff off and collect the money.

Regulations are not the issue. Enforcement is. Regulation changes are completely pointless without enforcement. There has to be consequences to ignoring regulations. Currently the only consequence is that the inspector/BCO/self cetifier/builder/developer all get to make more money. The very opposite of whats required!

Sorry, i think you may have misunderstood what i was asking. Your post suggested that air tests were a desktop excercise, not an actual practical test. Is that what you are having done/experiencing? I have no house to test.

Not going to happen. Cant happen. Will never happen. Id put good money on that. Edited to add, there is no qualification requirement to be a builder. Anyone can be one. And is. So disqualification isnt an option even if there was a desire to do so.

Wasnt Robert Jenrick caught doing exactly that on behalf of developers? It does happen. ( i may have recounted this before) A friend of mine does a bit of occasional development/house building. Built 2 houses. Needed air test. Chap turns up, had a look round and then said, what number do you want me to record. No intention to actually test anything. They forced him to test it. As ive said in my rants about building control, the whole system is pointless. Once you have the piece of paper that says your word is accepted, you can do, whatever you want. Just sign off any old crap. There is no comeback, and no practical legal recourse for the consumer even if they knew or wanted to do so. Applies equally to bco's, electricians and window fitters. Especially windows fitters.

I get that bit. Its the term "desktop" i dont understand. That suggests to me a theoretical test, not an actual real one?

What does this mean?

Given your intended use, i think you would be nuts not to fit a DPM. But then, id be insulating under it too if it was mine and going to the lengths you are.

Are you sure? General rule of thumb for any installer ive come across is 150mm if its reinforced concrete. All the ramps ive had put up, none had, nor specified 200mm. None fell over either. If it really has to be 200, then as suggested thicken in the appropiate area. Going to save a heap of concrete. 200mm is total over kill for something that will only see cars. Ive also installed a 2 poster on 4 inch non re-inforced concrete. But it did have an H frame. Which substantially reduces the floor rerquirements. Have you considered changing ramp supplier?

It made no sense, because you justfied it on financial grounds. Which clearly dont stack up whichever way you look at it.. However, if you are doing it for ideological/ecological reasons, then fair enough. Thats entirely your choice. But you made no mention of that. Had you done so, then the responses would probably have been different. Mine would have been. Ill duck out now.

Still makes no sense. The payback period will be forever. Made worse but borrowing the money to pay for it.

Good link. I love this bit at the end: Alternatively, you could make this a DIY project. Often the best installations are completed by homeowners who have taken time to install materials correctly. The most important skill needed is care and attention to the intricate details. You must also follow the appropriate health and safety measures at all times. We would be pleased to support you with further installation information if DIY is an option for you. If ever there was a vieled reference to crap workmanship by builders, this is it. Still at least they know what actually goes on in the real world.

Why are you actually doing this. With so a low heat load, i struggle to see the logic? As steamy said, what is your actual consumption? But if the boiler is only own for 2 hours, it really cant be very much.

Indeed. So companies owned by "chums" can harvest some more money. I just need to find someone willing to leave all the gear for me to fit, but claim they installed it anyway. Or let them install it, then take it out and do it properly once they have gone, and reconnect my oil boiler as back up.

Are the joists located into the brickwork, or on joist hangers? Im assuming cavity wall? If the former, then you do definetely run the risk of moisture forming at the interface with the cold brickwork which will struggle to evaprate, wool or otherwise If on joist hangers, you may still have the problem. Obviously you could pay someone to do a proper analysis, but my take is that it is a high risk solution. Its examples like this that just demonstrate the practical difficulties with insulating older housing stock. That you are asking puts you way ahead of the other 99% doing this stuff.

But not on supply only i presume?

I intend to do do exactly that. But thats because i have a resonable level of understanding. Were i an uninformed average customer, that wouldnt happen. They would get to pay twice. Ref oil cost, i dont think it will. Certainly not anytime soon. They either have to increase oil prices or decrease electricity. The latter clearly isnt going to happen. Will be a brave government who choose to increase, artifically, heating oil given the usage profile and low number of affected household. Worst case is, its the same price as road disel. If it was higher even, than that, id just use road diesel or red disel if that still exsists by then instead. As will most people pushed that far. Which at current prices would be circa 16p per kwh. So even if it does get to that, the difference wont pay for itself in my likely lifetime. Ill probably be dead before then. Of course, they may forcibly install one, as the new legislation gives them the right to do. Not much i can do about that.

Well im glad im not the only one that completely confused as to what the OP is asking!

Are you surprised?

Its an oil boiler, not a combi. When the power goes off, i go outside, pull the main fuse, and start the generator. Problem fixed. Would be better with a battery, but that rather less straight forward, see previous post.

This^^^. I think, especially on here, this is lost. ANYTHING that isnt a case of selecting the desired temp, is going to get a bad reputation. Im a pretty practical kind of guy, and pretty much do everything myself. But i read stuff on here regarding heat pumps and related stuff like solar and batteries, and to be honest, struggle to make sense of it. And im WAY more advanced that the average person, who just wants a heating system. Aside from my cynicism about targets, likely cut off dates and all the other guff, the sheer complexity of any "new" system, in particular getting it specified and set up, simply steers me to keep my oil boiler long term, even though i will be doing a fairly major amount of work on a rather old house including ignificant reconfiguration of heating. The idea of paying, the frankly bonkers numbers to have a HP system installed rules that out. And they will still be more expensive to run than oil. Granted of course that may change a bit.