Roger440

Indeed. I dont know anyone that runs there heating/house "too warm". I find its just the right temp for them, or in my house for me. What Kelvin really meant, is too warm for "him".

But it is. Nobody is going to build a muclear power station, for example, without direct say so from government and gurantees about prices. Understandably as government is prone to move the goal posts on mere whims. If my only concern was outages, then yes, have a generator (which i do, a nice disel 5KVA affair) but as we discussed earlier there is the price element too. That got lost in the debate. Again, i dont trust them not to allow, through supply and demand, or otherwise deliberately, to drive up the cost of electricity. eg, Starmer says no more gas (or oil) for homes after 2030. This is your next PM. Probably. What do you reckon will happen to electricity demand when that happens? And the corresponding effect on prices? Given as you yourself say, the lead times on infrastructure. We both know there is zero possibility of converting 30 million homes from gas to heat pumps in that time frame no matter what he says. The national grid nor the civil service can save us from this level of stupid. As i said, im not going to be a victim.

Well, I was looking at gridwatch. Ok it's all a dumbed down dashboard, but still a reasonable indicator I would have thought? As I said, I don't doubt technical solutions exist. Of course they do. A nd will continue to be developed. Where we differ, is that you believe stuff will get done to ensure we don't have shortages. I don't believe it at all. The days of government essentially doing their best for the country are in the past. I don't believe it and will do what I have to do, to ensure I don't suffer as a consequence. Or at least limit that suffering to a minimum. Many will disagree with that position, but me doing it won't impact anyone else, other than some possible small scale fossil fuel burning. Meanwhile, yes, energy storage would be a game changer, which is what we are supposed to be discussing 🙂

More interest is unsurprising given what's going on. I don't doubt for a minute there are technical solutions. That's not what I'm worried about. It's the ability of our government to make the right decisions, well, any decisions really. No amount of data will solve that. Of course RE is more than wind. But it forms the biggest part of it. And you graph is nicely smoothed. Like the day when wind was at 3%. The graph says all was well. But the reality was, had we not fired up every fossil fuel burning contraption we had available, there would have been a shortage. Again, can technical solutions be found? Sure. Will they be, not a chance. Not to a level that gives us a reliable supply at a sensible stable cost.

Sorry, I meant how do you get the air to 600?

Hmmm. But surely that means the air needs to hotter than that?

How would you get it to 510 degrees though?

Im not sure of the relevance of the graph? Its just showing the split? If its 100% wind and we never have shortages, great. Its working reliably. So far. But we did have to issue a warning prior to christmas that there may be a shortage. To me, thats living on the edge. Going from memory that night, wind was down at 3%. We just didnt have the ability to generate more. As it happened, it passed without incident. You have to believe that the government wont allow us to have power outages to reley 100% on the grid, even leaving aside ever increasing costs. Sadly, i dont believe it at all and fully expect us to have shortages. That could be incompetence or otherwise. Doesnt really matter which, Shortages are shortages. I dont want to be a victim. I guess you believe the challenges will be overcome?

Thanks. Thats changed then.

Just extended periods of low generation to cover off then. Like a lot of the last 3 months. Of course, if we allow suply and demand to drive the price, it just means that prices wil be massively high when its not windy. I dont see that as a satisfactory solution, but im pretty sure thats the one we are getting. Sufficiently convinced that im here on this thread discussing ways to ensure im not a victim.

Didnt think octopus were taking new customers? Ripplle discussed already in this thread. Not something i would be putting money into. Way to high risk.

Thats nice. But not the same thing. Overall power generation hasnt gone up by any appreciable amount. Simply replaced one with another, rather less predicatable source.

Your last paragraph is key. And you are right. There is no credible plan to increase production to match (forced) demand. Therefore, the price must go up, unless there is a state intervention. My best guess is that such interventions will dry up. Of course i could be wrong.

Yes, but, call me selfish, but i dont want their lifestyle either. Do you?

Its fortunate you are in a postion that financial payback doesnt matter. However that puts you firmly in a minority. Even where a payback is, lets say, under 10 years, it rather irrelevant if you cant afford the capital investment, which, again, will be the majority. Thinking collectively is what government "should" be for. Good luck with that. The last 30 years of energy policy suggests you may be dissapointed. Its pretty much everyman for himself. Which is why im on this thread.

Do we not think that adding 30 million households to electric heating when starmer turns off gas in 2030, and the longer term addtion of 30 million electric cars wont have an effect on prices, given that, in simplistic terms, generation capacity isnt increasing significantly? Normally, an increase in demand, and a constriction in supply normally only has one outcome.

Do keep us updated. The principle is fairly simple. Its just the practical application.

Correct me if im wrong, but the link you provide is the "buy" price, not the selling price?

But thats not actually necessary is it? Or am i missing something? My plan was to connect my solar direct to heating water for heating the house. That way it can be completely stand alone and avoid all the unnecessary complications of interfacing with the grid supply. Sure, in summer, ill have a bunch of power i dont need. Does that matter? Sorry, not direct to heating water, put with a heat pump. But stand alone all the same.

Sadly, as this thread shows, there dont appear to be any economically sensible solutions to storing energy for extended periods. Even on a DIY basis, and even if you have unlimited space. I think we have concluded i "can" install a solar array big enough to heat my house all year, but the costs of doing so, again, make no sense, even DIY with second hand kit. The real difficulty, as discussed before, is not knowing what the price of electricity is likely to be going forward. On a supply/demand basis, very much higher than it is now seems "likely". But not with enough confidence to spend a 5 figure sum on the necessary PV installation.

Can it be on its side? If so, i could. Whats the payback? About eleventy billion years?

Exactly. Meanwhile in the building game, nothing much has happened. Still the same as 40 years ago and relies totally on the skill and dilgence of the installer for it to work right. Which anyone with half a brain will tell you doesnt happen 95% of the time. If you applied any engineering logic you would design something that could accet a sensible amount of misalignment and poor fitting. Because thats EXACTLY what happens. But perversly in this game actual performance doesnt matter much, only the tested performance. Anyway, thanks for the suggestions on windows you have used succesfully. Shall look into them

But in this sceanrio, water needs diverting, that means valves. And that means valve control. Which means sensors and electronics. Electronics = unreliability. And a level of understanding to fix when it goes wrong that i dont possess. Back to where we started. Would need a passive divertor system as each tank reaches max temp. Something with a waxstat. More research required.......

Or 535 tons for my house. Not an entirely practical idea out in the real worl i think.....................

No 3 phase here. This was/is going to be DIY. It simply wont fly otherwise. Though, by my calcs id need another 50 odd panels. Ones like mine are going for around £100 a pop, so that would be £5k. I think i need a lie down! I take your point about summer export, though it was something id rather avoid. More complication and cost. Good point on the storage size. Hadnt considered that. I was considering large in case i wanted to add a gasification log boiler which would generate a lot of heat quickly (as per previous discussions). Need to ponder how that would work with smaller multiple tanks. A complicated control system i suspect. I dont like complicated. complication = unreliability.