Roger440

Its just not going to happen, political will or otherwise. All those companies have already got plenty of work. You need, as pointed out to increase fitting by at least 20 times. Where are you going to "find" 20,000 fitters? Fitters that actually know what they are doing?

Well, actually thats exactly what we were saying. But not to worry. If we are all agreed that it isnt remotely financially viable, then thats all good. In my case to go to a HP system will require everything. So into 5 figures if im paying someone. Plus the house is a thermal catastophe. So another, bigger 5 figure sum required. The reality is it will never make any sense. The oil boiler can be repaired indefinitely. Its a worcester greenstar. Nice and simple.

Iceverge is right. Converting from a perfectly servicable gas or oil boiler to ASHP simply makes no financial sense, no matter how good the installation. You suggestion above ignores the capital cost. Which is a considerable cost. £2 a day for half the year lets say is £365. Its going to take an awful long time just to break even,.especially if you chuck in a set of batteries. Payback is well beyond a decade. Assuming nothing major goes wrong. If it does, you might be at 2 decades. If you start working on paybacks that long, then you might argue its not black and white. Meanwhile, back in the real world............................................................

Having scratched around, and read some very useful threads on here, it seems no one will sell you a pre-gassed unit without proof of the f-gas compliance of the installer. Unless its go R290 in it. Which comes with its own issues. Im presuming this is a recent development as several people on here have bought and fitted themselves. Does anyone know where one can buy without having to have an f-gas engineer? Doing so will smore than double the cost rendering the payback to long. More cost effective just to have a direct resistance heater.

Any reason this wont work well? https://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p/eiq-9wminv/electriq-eiq9wminv-air-conditioner?refsource=apadwords&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_id=18004559423&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAm4WsBhCiARIsAEJIEzUQQea9TSEQmI5FTTZlylkeMoVceoYCDqFfJyAeVF0Xub9WSSjxFVMaArhJEALw_wcB OP would need a bigger one though.

Interesting info. Im just wrapping up a "warm" workshop inside my main barn, which is 25 sqm. But currently has no heating and have been pondering my options. My aim is to sit it at 12 degrees all the time, except when i use it when i will turn it up (whatever it is) Primarily to maintain a stable environment and prevent corrosion etc. That and i hate being cold. Its a hobby after all. Its a whole other minefield ive not really looked into.

A good point. Ive been pondering the effects of beads in a cavity that has the ring main running in it. It not as bad as i feared. As you say, 2 cables feeding any given poinr.

Its SO hard to get clear advice on this. Ive just done my workshop "warm" room. PIR foil taped, then vapour barrier over. Overkill? Maybe. But better safe than sorry. Rework will be painful, both of time and expense.

Tha manufacturers disagree. Vapour barrier on the warm side is the consistent guidance as far as i can tell. You are increasing the risk of interstatial condensation.

Whilst thats useful, im not entirely sure how or what the relevance here is. There are very few houses running direct electric heating. Clearly those that do need to get swapped ASAP! The real issue is those with currently functioning gas/oil boilers. Payback period is far far longer. And often more expensive to run. Aside from the fitting challenges discussed already, i just cant see wholesale take up where payback is many years. Its just not affordable for the majority. As i said further up, i cant make the numbers stack up given i have a perfectly servicable oil boiler system, with the cheapest available fuel source, ie, oil. Of course, as im in wales, if i can get my household income below £31k, i can have up to £45k of work done (inc full house insulation). For free. But earn £1 over, you get nothing. Not a penny.

I have a similar (worse) problem. Ive got a 45 degree slopy bit as the eaves are lower than celing height. These are either completely uninsulated or stuffed with rock wall and cutting off airflow. I see no option to do it properly other than removing the the lower rows of roof tiles, membrane and battens. I could do it from inside but it will be a thermal bridge nightmare.

Im unclear where the condensation/mould is? In the room or outside of it?

Sadly, Dave is probably right. Maybe cut a hole somewhere unobtrusive and see if you can detect any air movement behind the plaster board. Especially if its windy. Steamy suggestion is where to start though. Go for the easy wins first.

Im unable to establish on the internet if my trusty worcester boiler is WC compatible. The gas ones are, but cant find a definitve answer on the oil variant. I may need to go and look inside it. That can wait as its dark and wet right now! Whilst you say its pre programmed, thats not quite true. You do need to set it up as per the video. Though clearly that simpler than calculating a house heat loss. But i guess most installers will go pessimistic to avoid comeback. For some reason on this thread, there doesnt seem to be much recognition that this is critical to the installer. Its got to be done, right, first time out. Nobody is going to pay for repeat visits, including the installer. As suggested further up, quite why this cant be an entirely automatic function is beyond me. So long as you have all the temp inputs, why is it so damn hard? Take it out of the hands of the installer or homeowner and let it sort itself out.

It is sad, yes. However, i dont think we need to worry too much, as we discussed on here before, to get this done by 2030, we need to do 70k installs a week. Which is about what we manage in a year. So the reality is, its going to be a very long time. So some will lean. But ultimately, yes you are correct, many will be paying much more than they should. Indeed, plenty of people with heat pumps already are. I know a couple. To say they are not very happy would be an understatement.

I knew it would get complicated. What does all that mean?

Id suggest we are as a collective of installers. Of course there are a lot of very good capable insallers, but overall, no. The german approch to things is just different. Mostly in a good way.

Yes, im sure i can. But why would i want to? Ive twiddled with flow temps in so far as i can. All im going to do is give myself a problem installing it and setting it up, as per post above. Or pay someone to do it. Which in itself, here, would be a major struggle to get anyone on site, never mind someone that could actually do it succesfully. Never mind the added complexity and therefore reliability that it will bring. Not saying it will fail, but has potential to. If its not there, it definitely cant fail.

I understand its purpose. Saying there is zero complexity is a stretch. By your own admission you need to calculate a curve based on your house heat losses. Id suggest its now got quite complex. Who knows what the heat losses are? I dont. The installer definitely wont. Given the homeowner certainly isnt going to do it, it falls to the installer. With best will in world, its unlikely to be right first time out. So repeat visits will be necessary to get it refined. Not going to happen for your average budget installation.

Hardly dramatic. The rest of your post merely goes on to confirm my point!

Im not sure i have one. Im just the end user. But i know is broken and pointless. I had a suite of certificates at the last place. Not one job had been done to regulations. Not one. Including the whoe septic tank debacle i have recounted before. So what do these "certificates" tell me. Who do they benefit? They certainly didnt benefit me as it turns out they were not worth the paper they were written on. And this on, what you would describe as the biggest proportion of applications. Though it needs pointing out not on the biggest proprtion of actual work being done.

Yes, easy to set up badly. But the result is still warm. Wasteful, maybe, but warm. Im on house 4. None have had WC. All have worked fine. Its just another level of complexity to go wrong. Ive seen enough threads on here to know this has set up problems written all over it.

Ive said this many times. And why a big change in pricing cant happen.

Problem is, its just not true. Maybe in an ideal world, but in the real world, its much more likely you will get a gas boiler set up installed and working with no fuss or drama. I keep going round the loop, considering my options, but its such a complex subject to get your head round, that i usually just give up. And im willing to try. Most people are not interested. Just want to pay money to someone to do it right. And of course, which everyone keeps ignoring, is even if you could make the running costs "cheaper" by manipulating the market, it still makes no economic sense at all to pay to swap. Sure, if its a new build, thats entirely different, but just new builds isnt going to move trhe dial. Ive got a 5 year old oil boiler. No amount of market manipluation is going make swapping to a HP anything other than a big outlay with a very long payback. I may well take that long term view, though currently minded not to and wait until someone else pays for it as government becomes ever more desperate. And enjoy cheap heatig in the interim.

Im not sure that much of a reason to leave it as it is?