lawns - input please

[lizzie]

We seeded a new lawn last year....it is beyond awful this year.  Lumpy and half dead (may be leatherjackets), full of weeds and generally a big mess.

 

I am about to embark on the final round of landscaping and will be taking up some of the lawned area to make planting areas but I will still have a lot of lawn left.

 

It may be a whole load of wasted effort to try and bring the existing up to standard so the question is do I try or do I have the whole lot dug up and relaid with turf.....or do I dig it all up and lay artificial grass.

 

We have the dog so do need 'grass' we are also surrounded by fields that are grown for organic hay, pretty at the right time of year but they are basically huge weeds flowering and spreading seeds all over our garden so plenty of weeding.  For those reasons we will never be able to have a 'perfect' lawn and thats fine but it is really frustrating to have to do it again after a year hence the thinking about artificial grass.  

[daiking]

Similar experience. Turfed 2 years ago but gets lumpier, patchier, mossier and weedier everyday.

 

Planning to pro-actively weed and moss kill.

Some point soon will need a scarifier to work it over.

Load of top soil to try and fill some bumps

Followed by some over seeding

Autumn and Winter - much better leaf control

 

Next spring do all of the above again

 

Repeat for 2 years till a) I'm dead, b) the grass is dead

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by daiking

[Gow]

Oh no, not artificial grass... it is not trouble free.  What about the bees?  Why not try the "alternative" clover lawn. Clover is fantastic for bees.  In the days of Yor grass seeds used to contain a certain amount of clover because it adds nitrogen to the soil then a certain weedkiller/lawn feed came on the market which knocked out everything except grass - good news for the company suppling the grass seeds because that meant the lawns have to be fertilized with one of their products etc.  What's more clover is pretty when it flowers, provides nitrogen so no need to waste money on fertilisers and it does not need cutting much more than a few times a year :))

 

If you are going to the SEC Ideal Homes on the same day as I am I will bring you two types of sedum as a starter for a green corner.  Alas, that is slow growing compared to grass but it is much prettier than plastic grass and you can buy it by the square metre or propagate it from the +/- 100 cuttings I will pass on to you!

 

Google this: Growth in artificial lawns poses threat to British wildlife...

[newhome]

Just now, Gow said:

Oh no, not artificial grass... it is not trouble free. 

 

I had artificial grass at my previous house. It was trouble free compared to how long it takes to mow the lawn and keep weed free. Much more practical for my dogs too, especially in winter. Bees are attracted by plants IME. I have plenty of bees here but buzzing round certain plants, not the lawn. 

[lizzie]

Thank you @Gow I have plenty of wildlife areas in the garden and large swathes of lavender for bees. I do believe in habitat creation and conservation and have done a lot over the years.  sadly my last clover lawn was not a success with dogs. 5 acre field of organic grass will more than offset a couple of hundred metres of garden. Very kind of you on the sedum but I am not in Scotland otherwise I would have taken you up on the offer for a corner starter.

[ProDave]

Re lumpy lawns.  Did you landscape and then seed too quick?  i.e not allowed any areas with a large make up of ground to settle but now they have.

 

I have a seemingly different philosophy to most when it comes to the site and landscaping.  Most people seem to strip the soil off the whole site, build the house, then put the soil back.

 

I knew I would be building up the ground level from existing (to make the slope less severe) so I saw absolutely no point stripping anything other than the actual house ares.  The rest I just left the soil and went over it with Gallup360 to kill just about everything.  After the groundworks for the house was done, I spread the soil that was left (the last thing I used my digger for before selling it) and then seeded.

 

While it's not a bolwing green, the grass has done well and it's fairly free uf lumps and bumps.  I am convinced that is because no areas have had a massive layer of soil put back.

 

There is one bit that has not done so well and that is because the builders doing the groundworks had to move some soil and in the process mixed up some subsoil and top soil. Everywhere else I had been careful to keep them separate and spread the sub soil first.

[lizzie]

1 minute ago, ProDave said:

Re lumpy lawns.  Did you landscape and then seed too quick?  i.e not allowed any areas with a large make up of ground to settle but now they have.

 

I have a seemingly different philosophy to most when it comes to the site and landscaping.  Most people seem to strip the soil off the whole site, build the house, then put the soil back.

 

I knew I would be building up the ground level from existing (to make the slope less severe) so I saw absolutely no point stripping anything other than the actual house ares.  The rest I just left the soil and went over it with Gallup360 to kill just about everything.  After the groundworks for the house was done, I spread the soil that was left (the last thing I used my digger for before selling it) and then seeded.

 

While it's not a bolwing green, the grass has done well and it's fairly free uf lumps and bumps.  I am convinced that is because no areas have had a massive layer of soil put back.

There may be something in that - we soiled and seeded as you say.

 

 For the build we had to go down circa 2 metres below existing ground level as we had to drop the house down so it does not stick up on the horizon, we had to build a massive retaining boundary wall to hold back the ground outside our boundary, the wall is full of steel and concrete, its 450wide and 3m high above our ground level, it goes down a way too and incorporates drainage....all had to be designed by SE.  There was no alternative but to strip the site with all that to be done before we even thought about foundations for house. If it had just been house and some trenches it would have been easier all round.

[Jeremy Harris]

We have had much the same problem.  I spent a small fortune on top quality sieved and sterilised top soil, had a really good chap level the area for the lawn and turf it with good turf, and within a year it was lumpy and full of weeds.  I'm constantly doing battle with weeds that look like some sort of thistle, the problem being that no matter how I deal with them they end up making holes in the lawn.  I've found that the least problematic way to deal with them is to use the Bayer lawn weedkiller that @PeterStarck recommended some time ago.

 

If I had my way I'd concrete the lot and cover it with Astroturf...

[lizzie]

1 minute ago, JSHarris said:

We have had much the same problem.  I spent a small fortune on top quality sieved and sterilised top soil, had a really good chap level the area for the lawn and turf it with good turf, and within a year it was lumpy and full of weeds.  I'm constantly doing battle with weeds that look like some sort of thistle, the problem being that no matter how I deal with them they end up making holes in the lawn.  I've found that the least problematic way to deal with them is to use the Bayer lawn weedkiller that @PeterStarck recommended some time ago.

 

If I had my way I'd concrete the lot and cover it with Astroturf...

@JSHarris I like your thinking!

[newhome]

I got turf laid but I don’t think it’s the best. 3 years since it’s been laid but it’s quite weedy and some of the grass is quite coarse so I don’t think it was the best to begin with. I tried to reseed a few bits of it last year but I clearly didn’t do it right as none of the seed germinated. Might have been the seed I used I guess ...

 

I think that artificial grass looks ok in the right setting, especially with a very modern house. 

[Jeremy Harris]

Just now, lizzie said:

@JSHarris I like your thinking!

 

 

Did I mention that I HATE trying to keep lawns looking neat and tidy? 

 

I've been outvoted at home, but I would far rather have a garden that had no grass at all, especially as our garden is (deliberately) not very large.

[lizzie]

1 minute ago, newhome said:

I got turf laid but I don’t think it’s the best. 3 years since it’s been laid but it’s quite weedy and some of the grass is quite coarse so I don’t think it was the best to begin with. I tried to reseed a few bits of it last year but I clearly didn’t do it right as none of the seed germinated. Might have been the seed I used I guess ...

 

I think that artificial grass looks ok in the right setting, especially with a very modern house. 

I'm very moderrn :-))

 

[newhome]

I would have used AstroTurf again but the OH wanted grass. It’s me who has to look after it now though. I don’t mind the mowing too much, it’s the weeds I have an issue with really. 

[Temp]

We also had turf laid but good preparation is key. Should be dug, and stones removed several times then rolled.

 

Make sure you have a decent water supply. Dry windy weather can wreck turf in under an hour. It shrinks up leaving gaps. If you had a week of sunny weather you might need sprinklers running and being moved around constantly the whole week. This was a big problem for us.  Two sprinklers was only just enough. Once the turf anchors itself down you are reasonable safe but do watch out.

 

I treat my lawn every spring with lawn sand (for moss) and either Weedol or Verdone Lawn weed killer for everything else. If you have a lot of grass perhaps look at weed killers such as Depitox Selective which might work out cheaper.

 

Don't cut it too short or that encourages moss and weeds.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Temp

[joe90]

My garden is like the Somme and I know it will take a lot of work to make a decent lawn, once the patio is laid and I have a level to work off I will have to build up the soil up to two feet in places. It will then take rotovating and rolling to get level but I know it will settle and need it again. We live in a very rural location so I know weeds will be an ongoing problem but that’s the price you pay for living in the countryside. I would not use Astro turf but I can understand it in a town with a small postage stamp lawn that gets little sunshine.

[lizzie]

Thank you @Temp we seeded from choice as it thought it might give a better lawn although more work.  We sifted, soiled (top quality sterilised topsoil), rolled, levelled etc etc, we put land drains in so no waterlogging due to base of clay underneath.  Sprinklers on no lack of water...but and I think this has a lot to do with it as @ProDave says ....it was made up ground and it was as hot as hell last summer.  We got weeds coming up as @JSHarris describes even after all that.  Over the winter it has become very uneven and has bald patches where I have to dig out the big weeds and now we have developed large patches that look strawlike at the roots and this is spreading at a rate of knots....I wondered if it was leatherjackets but I've not been able to find any grubs. A month or so ago we did soil/sand into the dips and over seeded as well as feed etc.......thats fine but seem to have new dips now.  I spent 4 hours out there yesterday mowing it, weeding it and generally cosseting it.  Never spent so much time on a lawn that looks so rubbish.

 

At this point the astro turf is looking very attractive.

[ProDave]

I think we were "lucky" that the year we seeded the lawn it was cool and wet for a while so no need for a sprinkler.  This year has been very dry so it would not have been so easy.

 

Our garden is split in two by the burn.  The "south" garden is just what was there. We have not done anything, not levelled it, and not seeded it.  We just strimmered it and then mowed it into submission and from a distance it looks reasonable. But it is quite lumpy with lots of hollows.  We have a pile of soil still to use up that eventually will get spread over that to level it more.

 

I like a large garden (1/3 acre in total) but I wish there was less lawn to mow.  Eventually I will get a small ride on mower, but until I build a decent bridge over the burn to take it, it would be a waste as it would be stuck one side.

 

[daiking]

So the clear winner is hard work and no reward. 

 

Just like marriage ?

[Temp]

If it's any consolation I've also got holes this year, both where there were large weeds and where there was more Moss than grass. Some years it just seems worse than others. Have to cover reseeded patches with chicken wire or the rabbits that live in the churchyard next door come and dig holes.

 

[lizzie]

Gravel then !

[Jeremy Harris]

Gravel gets my vote.  I rather like the clean lines of a Zen garden, and it's what I wanted to do where we have our small lawn.  I was overruled, though.

[Gow]

22 minutes ago, lizzie said:

Gravel then !

Or disgarded woollen carpets with a flax backing to smother the unwelcomed guests in the garden. Natural fibre capets kill off weeds etc and biodegrade naturally and you can cover the carpets with sedum so no mowing. Pity you don't live in Scotland I could supply the carpets and sedum free of charge! All our swirly-patterned carpets have to go as soon as the extension is built.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Gow
typo

[Declan52]

I dug mine out, levelled it and seeded and stood back with great pride and watched as I grew weeds and plenty of them. I used every thing available to kill them and promote nice grass but after 4 years I gave up and dug it all out and put down artificial grass. Best thing I ever done. I hit it with the hose every month to get rid of leaves etc and it looks as good as the day it was put down.

Just be careful of you go down the artificial route as all the important work is underneath so it's never seen. Skimp here and it will look poor in a few months when it sinks. Plenty of hardcore and sharp sand for drainage.

 

[Ferdinand]

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

Gravel gets my vote.  I rather like the clean lines of a Zen garden, and it's what I wanted to do where we have our small lawn.  I was overruled, though.

 

I did that.

 

Front lawn went. Replaced with gravel. Park cars on it.

 

@lizzie

 

Have you considered some areas of feature paving. I am sure there are acres of former slate roofs to be salvaged from Buildhub demolishers.

 

I have a whole path made from the former roof of the shop where my gran was born in 1897, which is gradually vanishing into the earth. 

 

3 hours ago, Gow said:

Google this: Growth in artificial lawns poses threat to British wildlife...

 

 I love that. Personally I have never seen one grow ... 

 

This is my current back garden, which (having had the lawn removed in the first half 5 years ago). It was supposed to be an ornamental grassery, but too many creatures like eating it. It is now a cross between a traditional cottage garden and a shrubbery and a scrubbery, but looks attractive and gives a measure of vegetables. Manicured will not happen.

 

There is something to be said for so many plants that grass is suppressed, but you would need to wait a few years.

 

The only vigorous grass is that which has invaded the patio.

 

For a suggestion - chamolile seat?

 

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by Ferdinand

[lizzie]

@Ferdinand lovely but not spaniel friendly, he needs grass to roll around on not to mention other things LOL.  I have over 100sqm of paving, and some gravel areas already in.  I am looking at more gravel and feature paved areas in the final plan but still need some grass for the woofer.

 

My few hundred sqm of grass will not ruin the planet if I did do artificial for sure, all that is between me and thousands of acres of pasture land and woods is a bit of post and rail.  I’m not sure if I could live with artificial though having always been a very keen gardener but as I am now older and less able but need it for woofer its an attractive option.  Needs thought.

 

This is how far I have got....stage 2 to start shortly.....gravel is to be extended quite a lot and to have pocket planted grasses and stepping stone pathways to bench to go in.  Still leaves a lot of rubbish lawn.

Edited May 17, 2019 by lizzie