Blogtastic!

[worldwidewebs]

Thanks - that's certainly going to be on the list of options for how to address it  

[worldwidewebs]

MBC are on-site! 

https://selfbuildnoviceblog.wordpress.com

 

A bit of a potential cock-up along the way but hopefully all sorted  

 

[Barney12]

Thanks. Enjoying reading. 

[DavidFrancis]

When I first looked at this I thought you'd inverted the usual arrangement and put the slab UNDER the EPS!  (It's the grey sand that did it.)

[TerryE]

@worldwidewebs, I went through your blog.  Very interesting. Thanks.  I see that MBC have continued to evolve their cassette design and techniques.  Your cassettes had the VCL OSB pre-fitted whereas our cassettes only had the outer Panelvent fitted; the VCL was delivered in sheet form and fitted by the erection crew. 

 

I know that Jeremy eulogised about the frame tolerances, but ours was out by ~1cm on a rear gable. I don't blame the crew and we are happy with the end result.  (The frame was erected in shitty November weather.)  One issue was that the cassettes were fixed directly to the slab, and getting these mm perfect is hard when its raining and a bit blowy.  I thought on reflection that it would have been better if a separate sole plate had been laid first to register the exact cassette positions, and I see that they now do this.  Good.

 

But overall we are delighted with the final result, and I hope that you are likewise.

 

Edit: Sorry this is a cross post as I also read @Alex C's blog Passive House Selfbuild, which you might want to compare with your experience.  I will be very interested in the some of the frame detailing on your build.

Edited September 28, 2016 by TerryE

[worldwidewebs]

@TerryE - Sorry, I didn't understand much of what you said  What's a cassette? VCL? Panel vent? Where are you getting your info from regarding the evolving design?

 

I'm very much learning as I go along and so far they are just fitting the EPS. One problem is that there is only Tom on site plus a young chap on his second site! I'm not sure if this will affect the quality of the install or just the timescale, but it's not what I was expecting tbh.

Edited September 28, 2016 by worldwidewebs

[Barney12]

6 minutes ago, worldwidewebs said:

@TerryE - Sorry, I didn't understand much of what you said  What's a cassette? VCL? Panelvent?

 

I'm very much learning as I go along and so far they are just fitting the EPS. One problem is that there is only Tom on site plus a young chap on his second site! I'm not sure if this will affect the quality of the install or just the timescale, but it's not what I was expecting tbh.

 

Thats disappointing to read. One of my major concerns with MBC and their apparent increasing popularity (not to mention a new factory) was that of over trading leading to issues in quality and service. 

Good reputations are hard to gain but very quickly lost. 

 

[worldwidewebs]

35 minutes ago, Barney12 said:

 

Thats disappointing to read. One of my major concerns with MBC and their apparent increasing popularity (not to mention a new factory) was that of over trading leading to issues in quality and service. 

Good reputations are hard to gain but very quickly lost. 

 

I'll be honest, that all did cross my mind too when I knew the new factory was opening. However, I treat as I find and I've no reason to expect anything other than what I've seen on other builds so far. I'm sure there will be a glowing report on my blog in the coming weeks  

[jack]

11 hours ago, Barney12 said:

 

Thats disappointing to read. One of my major concerns with MBC and their apparent increasing popularity (not to mention a new factory) was that of over trading leading to issues in quality and service. 

Good reputations are hard to gain but very quickly lost. 

 

 

I agree.  However, this is something I know MBC are aware of following a spurt of growth in the last couple of years.  Unless something's changed in the last few months since I spoke to one of their senior guys, the actually reduced the number of teams they had late last year and slowed down taking on new work.  I don't know whether they'd reached a point where quality was actually suffering, but I was heartened by the fact they were addressing the issue proactively while their reputation was still good.  

[TerryE]

17 hours ago, worldwidewebs said:

@TerryE - Sorry, I didn't understand much of what you said  What's a cassette? VCL? Panel vent? Where are you getting your info from regarding the evolving design?

 

I'm very much learning as I go along and so far they are just fitting the EPS. One problem is that there is only Tom on site plus a young chap on his second site! I'm not sure if this will affect the quality of the install or just the timescale, but it's not what I was expecting tbh.

• Cassette is the trade term for the individual panel, and you will see them being erected in @Alex C 's Youtube videos as below.
• Panelvent is the special breathable fibre board that covers the outside of each panel, and this in turn is covered by a special fabric of VCL (vapour control layer) which together let the frame breath and let moisture out but largely prevent it getting in/
• The air tightness layer is the inner surface (the green stuff) which seals the frame so that your MVHR works effectively.

I have an MBC frame myself as do a few other active members and I've been tracking their designs for 3 years.  Some their earlier designs with Seamus O'Loughlin date back a few years before that.

 

As far as the number of staff on site, the important thing is the quality.  The site has to be properly levelled and the frame correctly constructed to the right dimensions.  You should have a copy of the detailed slab design with key measurements edge and diagonals.  Ditto UFH plans.  @Alex C and others have posted Youtube time-lapses so you should watch these.  The pour itself will require a minimum crew of 3 who are experienced and so you need to ensure that it will be correctly resourced before any concrete or associated kit comes to site.  Some things to check:

• Frame dimensions and level
• Detailing of door openings
• Any foulwater and service pipes must be postioned to cm accuracy and foulwater gradients in-spec
• All rebar cages and mats must be correctly spaced off the EPS and tied
• The UFH layout must allow for partition walls and no-go areas such as under kitchen units
• During the pour all ring beam's should be properly vibrated down, and slab's tamped
• The final slab has to be power-floated in the correct window: the Goldilocks period, not too wet, not too firm.
• It should be level to within 2-3mm across the entire slab.

 

 

[ADLIan]

VCL should be on inside of panel. Breather membrane is external to panel.

 

[Stones]

On 9/28/2016 at 12:30, TerryE said:

I know that Jeremy eulogised about the frame tolerances, but ours was out by ~1cm on a rear gable. I don't blame the crew and we are happy with the end result.  (The frame was erected in shitty November weather.)  One issue was that the cassettes were fixed directly to the slab, and getting these mm perfect is hard when its raining and a bit blowy.  I thought on reflection that it would have been better if a separate sole plate had been laid first to register the exact cassette positions, and I see that they now do this. 

 

Our last house, the timber frame came with a tolerance of +/- 2mm IIRC.  It was fitted onto a sole plate (which two joiners had spent the day getting correctly positioned, measuring and remeasuring critical dimensions.   In comparison, our first house had a tolerance of 50mm and was subject to quite rudimentary adjustment on site!  Timber Frames have come on a long way.  

[ProDave]

Another point often made is who is to blame iof the foundations don't match the timber frame? You get into an argument as to who got it wrong.  I solved that by contracting the same building firm to build the foundations and supply and erect the timber frame, so if something did not fit it would be squarely (excuse the pun) their fault.

 

As it happened the blocklayers measured and re measured to ensure they got it the right size, square and level. Then the joiners came and measured before making the frame just to be really sure. And it all fitted very well.
 

[Stones]

That's the route we've always taken as well, although I think in days gone by, timber frame was a very rough and ready product, so it probably didn't matter as builders were happy to hack a bit off or add a bit in as required.  

[worldwidewebs]

Thanks @TerryE. Did you check all those dimensions yourself? I haven't seen the slab drawings (with diagonals etc) but might just get a peek tomorrow. I'll also phone the office and see what the plan is regarding resource on-site, so thanks for the advice.

 

In terms of whether everything is done 'properly' I think this is where I'm a bit unsure. I've hired in a well-recommended and experienced company to do the works so there has to be an element of trust that they know what they're doing. In addition, I have no experience! That does beg the question of who to blame if things go wrong though 

 

 

[lakelandfolk]

Just watched the mbc video of the timber frame erection. Will the vertical and horizontal timber clad steel beams installed into the external walls not be a serious cold bridge?

[Alex C]

@lakelandfolk, it is my timelapse that I have let MBC use. The steel beams and posts are on the inside plane of the wall and are fully insulated around the outside. This is an area where you do have to be really careful, especially with cantilevered parts of the build, or balconies above like I have.

[TerryE]

@worldwidewebs,  as the old Reagan quote goes: Trust but verify. You don't need to do the  checks yourself, but make sure that the  guys do them.  They should be happy to let you witness the checks.  Anyway I think ya at every self builder should get themselves a decent laser measure,  and doing a double check is a simple two person job.,if you want to do it yourself.

In terms of  a asking MBA about resourcing,  why not talk to the  crew leader onsite, or your allocated MBC project manager?  

[Bitpipe]

8 hours ago, TerryE said:

@worldwidewebs,  as the old Reagan quote goes: Trust but verify. You don't need to do the  checks yourself, but make sure that the  guys do them.  They should be happy to let you witness the checks.  Anyway I think ya at every self builder should get themselves a decent laser measure,  and doing a double check is a simple two person job.,if you want to do it yourself.

In terms of  a asking MBA about resourcing,  why not talk to the  crew leader onsite, or your allocated MBC project manager?  

 

I bought a £35 laser measure early on (when the basement was being built) and had great fun running round checking every measurement on the build as it was going up - everything was spot on but it gave me peace of mind.

 

Eats batteries though

[worldwidewebs]

8 hours ago, TerryE said:

@worldwidewebs,  as the old Reagan quote goes: Trust but verify. You don't need to do the  checks yourself, but make sure that the  guys do them.  They should be happy to let you witness the checks.  Anyway I think ya at every self builder should get themselves a decent laser measure,  and doing a double check is a simple two person job.,if you want to do it yourself.

In terms of  a asking MBA about resourcing,  why not talk to the  crew leader onsite, or your allocated MBC project manager?  

 

Apparently there are a few more guys turning up today and Joe is popping down for a visit too. I think the aim now is to get the concrete poured on Monday/Tuesday now, whereas originally it was Friday(-ish). 

 

I wasn't aware I had an MBC project manager...

 

Just looking at laser measures on Amazon Prime at the moment!  

[worldwidewebs]

For some reason I'm struggling to get Alex's videos to play properly, either through this site or directly on youtube. Is this just me or does anyone else have this problem? 

[Mikey_1980]

Absolutley speak the guys on site, and if you have any concerns a call to someone in the office can always help.  I made sure we spoke to them every morning and evening about progress and any concerns that we had and they were more than happy to go through anything or make any changes.

 

I couldn't fault MBC, they made a mistake here and there but these were dealt with swiftly and they went above and beyond sorting out other issues.

[TerryE]

My Bosch measure as been superseded by a newer model, but it is mm accurate up to 30m or further in low light conditions. I use rechargeables because, as Bitpipe says, it goes through the batteries if you use it a lot. 

 

@worldwidewebs, by project manager, I really meant your designated point of contact within MBC.  In my case it was Trish O'Dwyer.  This person has no on-site responsibilities, but is responsible as a single interface for agreeing and signing off plans, timescales, customer issues, etc.  I should hope that any framing company provides such a level of continuity for a service like this.

 

In terms of delivery time-scales, I naively thought that the MBC teams would work a normal 5 day week, but these guys are nearly all southern Irish based.  The building industry in Eire hasn't really fully recovered since the 2008 crash, so competition for jobs drives down labour rates.  By working (largely) over here they get top $.  Most work a cycle 2 weeks on and 1 off (or whatever is dictated by their family commitments).  When they are here they tend to work 12hr days, 7 days a week when possible because they all seem to have a committed work ethic and are paid on an  hourly rate.  They don't allocate contingency between jobs as this would be non-productive if not used, but instead just roll from one job to the next.  As a result it isn't at all unusual for notional start times to slip a few days or more if there has been bad weather.

[worldwidewebs]

They certainly put in the hours! They were on site early this morning and have just clocked off now - despite working through the p!$$ing rain all day! At least we now have a swimming pool we hadn't planned for

 

[worldwidewebs]

Slooooooowly getting there