Features that are hard to add after the build is finished

[puntloos]

Which features are easy/cheap to incorporate in a new build design, but will be really hard/costly to add later? For example:
 

- Central air

- Underfloor heating

- Central vacuum pipes

- Ground Source Heat Pump

- Basement, perhaps?

 

In particular I've been dissuaded from actually wanting a central vacuum, but adding a few pipes and holes is probably "a few hundred quid" extra during build, but near impossible to add when the house is done. But on the other hand, even 'cheap' things quickly start to add up so I'm wary of going too crazy about things we would never use, unless they have a major resale value impact..

 

[Ferdinand]

I think Central Vacuum is a bit like fully-integrated-rainwater-harvesting, much vaunted but the reality does not match the promise. 

 

For your list (and there are lots of threads on things like "what would you do differently"):

 

- Provision for your dotage (eg downstairs full shower room, potential granny flat, strengthened space for lift shaft).

- Appropriate access to flat roofs for maintenance.

- Outside taps and power points where they will be needed,

- Charging facilities for electric cars when they are all electric.

 

F 

[Onoff]

Fitting an internal soil stack would be a bit of a pig.

 

Though not a new build with a bit more thought I could have achieved clean external walls making future ewi that much easier!

 

Electrics, gas & water to a kitchen island after the slab is down would also be a pain.

[nod]

Not really a luxury 

My wife wanted a larger utility room 

We added 50% to the original size and are using every inch 

[ProDave]

Re the central vacuum.  I wired a house with one of those.  To use it you have to uncoil a monster hose, plug that in and drag it around the rooms.  It is FAR easier just to push a normal hoover around the place.

 

One to add to your list is build whatever roof you have (assuming pitched roof) using attic trusses, so adding a room(s) up there later is easy because the structure is in place.

 

[dpmiller]

8 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Re the central vacuum.  I wired a house with one of those.  To use it you have to uncoil a monster hose, plug that in and drag it around the rooms.  It is FAR easier just to push a normal hoover around the place.

Not if you spec a hide-a-hose, Dave. The hose is stored inside the wall pipes. You just pull it out, use it, then let it get sucked back into the wall when finished.

Only caveat is that the length of pipe in the wall determines the maximum hose length so a bit of care is required in design...

[Big Neil]

Central Vacuums seem awfully 1970's to me. 

[Jeremy Harris]

We initially wanted a central vacuum, then stayed in a house with one and very quickly decided that it was far more hassle than either of us thought it would be.  With the money we saved by not installing a central vacuum we bought two Dyson cordless ones, one lives upstairs, one down.  We had a lot of cash left over from this decision, too.

 

Until you've tried to drag a damned great snake of pipe around you don't realise just how much of a nuisance it is.  We found it more of a nuisance than dragging a cable around, and the Dyson is so light and easy to use that there's just no comparison.

 

The only feature of a central vacuum we miss is the dustpan slot in the kitchen.  That was the only feature that worked very well, well enough that I'm surprised no one has come up with a small, stand alone unit that will fit under a plinth, and which doesn't need a full central vacuum system.

[Gone West]

A central vacuum system was one of those things we saw when visiting a self build show. We quickly discounted it and now are very pleased as technology has moved on and a Dyson stick is all we need.

[Pete]

Had a central vacuum in the last house but we will not be having one in the new house. Although they have improved the hose storage capabilities the damage it used to cause dragging it around corners and doorways is not worth imho. As @PeterStarcksaid technology has moved on and we will be buying a Dyson at some point.

[jack]

I installed a fair amount of redundant CAT 6 cable, but given my time again I'd add even more.

 

I'd also include more ducts between important areas (eg, TV room) and our central wiring point.

[gravelld]

Depends what you mean by "really" hard.

 

If you're using money as a proxy, then insulation.

 

If you're meaning bother, time and disruption, then air tightness.

 

All uses of plumbing for both air or water, e.g. ventilation, heating pipes.

[puntloos]

Awesome discussion, just a quick note on the central vacuums, I asked a Norwegian friend and he pointed out just too many downsides for me. In particular he sent me a pic of the angry rodent effect:

 

 

caused by dragging around the pipes. But also storage of the hoses, that one time you forgot to empty out the bucket and it explodes on you.. it's not for me, but I could spend a few quid to prep the house.

 

6 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

I think Central Vacuum is a bit like fully-integrated-rainwater-harvesting, much vaunted but the reality does not match the promise. 

 

I was actually thinking about the rainwater harvesting and using it for flushing toilets (no idea if this overcomplicates the plumbing because you have to have a fallback if its dry) but apparently legionella is a concern, even at room temp (20C), so flushing, and aerosolizing some rainwater in your house...  is that what you meant?

 

6 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

For your list (and there are lots of threads on things like "what would you do differently"):

 

- Provision for your dotage (eg downstairs full shower room, potential granny flat, strengthened space for lift shaft).

- Appropriate access to flat roofs for maintenance.

- Outside taps and power points where they will be needed,

- Charging facilities for electric cars when they are all electric.

 

All good points, although I'm a bit hesitant to splurge too much on roof access for 'the occasional maintenance'. Making a rare event harder is usually good sense. On the flip side: I was actually considering creating a path for a digger to access the rear garden.. yes through the house. Meaning indeed a set of easy to tear down, non-loadbearing walls, probably through the garage, so if we have to, we can create that tunnel without major hassle...

 

Also of course being able to clean things like ceiling lights is super important, so maybe the roof access qualifies for that.

 

 

 

[Ferdinand]

Suitable top hung roof light in the right place and a telescopic ladder from Aldi...

 

The common one will be sweeping snow, and you want to be secure in such circs.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Ferdinand

[jack]

27 minutes ago, puntloos said:

On the flip side: I was actually considering creating a path for a digger to access the rear garden.. yes through the house. Meaning indeed a set of easy to tear down, non-loadbearing walls, probably through the garage, so if we have to, we can create that tunnel without major hassle...

 

If you only need a small digger, some have retractable tracks that make them narrow enough to squeeze through doorways. We had one onsite yesterday digging a 40m long, 400mm deep trench, including getting through 100mm of compacted concrete crush along at least half the length in some places. There were also lots of large rocks in places, which took time to dig out. It took about five hours, with me wheelbarrowing away the spoil. A larger digger would have been better and faster, but unless you're moving a lot of earth around, this might be enough.

[puntloos]

6 hours ago, Onoff said:

Fitting an internal soil stack would be a bit of a pig.

 

I've been trying to figure out what this is, and good info is actually hard to find. It's about drain smells? Can you elaborate? What's the alternative?

 

6 hours ago, Onoff said:

Though not a new build with a bit more thought I could have achieved clean external walls making future ewi that much easier!

 

Sorry I am too much a newbie to understand apparently. What do you mean 'clean walls' in context of insulation.

 

6 hours ago, Onoff said:

Electrics, gas & water to a kitchen island after the slab is down would also be a pain.

 

Good point, even if you initially don't think you need water, prepping it might be useful.

 

In the same vein I was thinking about getting a gas line to a spot in the livingroom where a gas fireplace could be placed, if I don't do it during build.

 

6 hours ago, nod said:

utility room 

We added 50% to the original size and are using every inch 

 

How large is yours currently?

 

1 hour ago, jack said:

I installed a fair amount of redundant CAT 6 cable, but given my time again I'd add even more.

How much redundancy would you recommend then? Clearly a single line to each room makes sense, but how far would you go?

 

1 hour ago, jack said:

 

I'd also include more ducts between important areas (eg, TV room) and our central wiring point.

Yep. Powerful idea to be able to add new cables on demand. Maybe in-house fibre will become a thing in 10 years.

[jack]

1 minute ago, puntloos said:

How much redundancy would you recommend then? Clearly a single line to each room makes sense, but how far would you go?

 

It's more that I'd consider providing additional cable to give more flexibility for locating things that need it. Classic example is the kitchen. We always resisted the idea of a kitchen TV, but installed an aerial outlet, power and 2 x CAT 6 cables in the most likely location in case we changed our mind. We did change our mind, but now that we think about it a little harder, I'm not sure that the current location is ideal. There's actually a better place, but no cables of any sort near it, so we're stuck with the original location.

 

Same with our music streamer/radio. We've ended up moving it somewhere in the kitchen that makes a lot if sense, but only because there's a small side table there that we hadn't planned for. We now have to use wireless, and unfortunately this is at the very end of the house furthest from the wireless router. Fine most of the time, but it cuts out when the microwave is on! Again, there's no CAT cable anywhere near this new point.

 

Of course, you can't predict where you need this sort of thing, and you need to draw the line somewhere. If I were doing this again I'd probably aim for two cable drops to each of the two most likely areas in each room that's likely to want an AV source. I have four CAT 6 cables behind the TV and another four where the small TV is in the lounge, and that seems to be more than enough at the moment.

[Ferdinand]

30 minutes ago, puntloos said:

What do you mean 'clean walls' in context of insulation.

 

Ewi adds an 8 inch shell outside your house.

 

Everything like satellite dishes and gateposts and lights and drainpipes have to move outside that shell or you get holes in your ewi and changes add costs.

 

You do things like mount several things on one panel of wood or avoid things on Walls altogether eg roof mounted flues for your boiler.

 

All about time to think first and sweating detail.

 

F

Edited May 1, 2019 by Ferdinand

[puntloos]

17 minutes ago, jack said:

Of course, you can't predict where you need this sort of thing, and you need to draw the line somewhere. If I were doing this again I'd probably aim for two cable drops to each of the two most likely areas in each room that's likely to want an AV source. I have four CAT 6 cables behind the TV and another four where the small TV is in the lounge, and that seems to be more than enough at the moment.

 

 

I'm starting to think the same for indeed audio (pre-wiring rooms for sonos and cinema, even if, like me, you don't like sonos nor cinemarooms (I'm deeply into audio and movies, but not in a separate room..) but maybe even it makes sense to do this with water, having a central 'water hub closet' and pipes to most rooms. (e.g. we are VERY thankful for the small washbasin in the baby room.,.)

[Ferdinand]

Example of detail sweating

 

 

[ProDave]

Re tv's and cables for them.

 

When I built the last house, hdmi had not even been invented.

 

When I built this house I installed just about everything I could think of, butr of course another 10 or 15 years and the successor to hdmi will prbably come along.  I might then be faced with getting new cables from the tv's to the "AV cupboard"

 

To try and allow for that, at both ends of the two main bedrooms I have left "trap doors" in the flooring at the ends that can be lifted. This should allow me to drop new cables down the service voids of the rooms below to the tv's and AV cupboard.

[puntloos]

8 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Re tv's and cables for them.

 

When I built the last house, hdmi had not even been invented.

 

When I built this house I installed just about everything I could think of, butr of course another 10 or 15 years and the successor to hdmi will prbably come along.  I might then be faced with getting new cables from the tv's to the "AV cupboard"

 

To try and allow for that, at both ends of the two main bedrooms I have left "trap doors" in the flooring at the ends that can be lifted. This should allow me to drop new cables down the service voids of the rooms below to the tv's and AV cupboard.

My dad pre-installed pulling wire into the cable pipes around the house. Need new cable pulled? just pull the cable with the wire (and of course, also attach the new pulling wire to the new cable..)

[ProDave]

36 minutes ago, puntloos said:

My dad pre-installed pulling wire into the cable pipes around the house. Need new cable pulled? just pull the cable with the wire (and of course, also attach the new pulling wire to the new cable..)

I did consider that but just going  round the walls in trunking / conduit would have involved 2 bends.  My method just requires 3 straight pulls done in sequence.

 

And we don't know what size the "next" AV connector will be so what size conduit to leave for it.

[puntloos]

For posterity - one thing that did come up is heat management things - it's no fun to find out your house is uncomfortable during hot days. It's probably a good idea to over-spec cooling options (at least - the 'plumbing' to add them later).

[Onoff]

Should have, could have, would have added acoustic foam around the

bath. Spa feature is pretty noisy. The foam worked a treat around the WC.